1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Seeking Speaker Biwiring Advice

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Homer, Jul 7, 2002.

  1. Homer

    Homer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have just got my first Home Cinema with a Denon 1802 Receiver and using the Wharfedale Diamond Cinema speaker package (8.3 Front and 8.1 Rear).

    My questions are:

    1. Will biwiring make a BIG difference to the sound quality? I understand WHY this should make a difference, but I would not call my self an expert in sounds etc. Do you think it is worth the extra cost etc. I biwired 1 speaker and then listened to it in stereo. I did hear a slight difference, but I am not sure if it was my mind telling me it was better because I knew it was biwired!!

    2. Does biwiring take any more power from the Receiver? The speakers have an impedance of 6 ohms.

    Thanks,

    Homer.
     
  2. MikeK

    MikeK
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Biwiring won't make any difference to the power drawn from a receiver or amplifier - the amp still sees the same impedance at the speaker terminal (to all intents and puposes).


    As to whether it makes any difference - well the jury is still out on that one. Some will swear it does - others will laugh at the idea and swear it doesn't. It's up to the listener to decide.

    In my fairly limited experience, I've had mixed results.
    In some cases it's made no discernible difference whatsoever, while in others there "appears" to be some subtle improvements -I've "noticed" a slightly sweeter treble and a slight improvement in imaging.
    What I have never heard though is any dramatic improvement in the sound simply from biwiring.

    I have to say that I'm not a great believer in a lot of this cable hype myself, especially in budget setups. Once you get what I would call decent speaker cables (needn't cost the earth), I think that the value return from investing in more expensive cables is very poor indeed.
    In high end setups, it might be different - but with the level of equipment most people are using, my honest opinion is that it's mostly hype.

    I guess what I'm saying is that if, for example, you had your 8.3s driven by your 1802 , monowired with 10m (5m each side) of say QED original (at £2.50/m), and then went out and spent £85 on 10m of QED Silver Anniversary biwire cable, I doubt you'd feel that the improvemnts (if any) would be worth the outlay (have to stress though that I've never actually tried that particular combination).


    The other question which continually crops up with the old "speaker cable in budget setups" question, is this

    "If the cable makes such a huge difference, then for a given outlay, am I better buying 10m of £5/m monowire cable, or 20m of £2.50/m cable and then biwire" ?

    I've heard arguments both ways, none of which were particularly convincing either way.

    One other thing - many people might be surprised at the quality of the cable used to hook up the drivers inside the cabinet (pop the bass driver and have a look) - on the budget speakers I've seen, let's just say it's certainly nothing fancy.
    Then again, some would recommend a complete internal rewire anyway - where do you stop? :)

    As for doing comparisons of one speaker biwired compared to one speaker monowired, consider this. Many budget speakers will not sound exactly the same even when stood side by side, and fed the same (mono) signal through the same cable.
    Driver and crossover component tolerances can see to that!
    It's often slight, but in many cases, the differences are there nonetheless. In normal use though, it's undetectable, so I wouldn't worry about it - just though I'd point it out.
    Because of this, often side by side comparisons may not be valid (depending on what you are trying to compare of course)

    What I would do if this is really eating at you, is get some on sale or return (Richer Sounds do a cable loan service), and make the comparisons yourself, at home, and on your own equipment.
    Really, at the end of the day, only your ears can decide the issue one way or the other.
    Blind listening tests can be especially revealing :)
    I'd wager there's quite a few magazine reviewers who wouldn't dare put their reputation on the line by participating in a series of blind listening tests - they may get shown up (a bit of the old wine tasting expert syndrome I suspect).

    I've read some real hokum
    A particular favourite is "Spinning up a disc and at first it had me convinced that I was listening to a wood based item" (reviewer talking about - a hifi rack :) )

    Another is "I realised the problem straight away - he'd redecorated his room and had used silk emulsion instead of matt"

    Reminds me of a story I read recently in the paper:
    Some well-known (?) artist in the 1920s had attempted to show how gullible the art buying public were, by crapping in some cans and selling it.
    The thing is, some British art museum has just paid 10 grand for one of the cans, calling it a seminal work :) :confused:

    Maybe I'm missing the point!
     
  3. Homer

    Homer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks MikeK for your reply.

    I'll take your advice and run some speaker wire to all the speakers and biwire them to see if I can hear the difference. If I cannot hear a significant difference, I think I'll leave the speakers mono wired as it would bo too much hassle to lift carpet and lay down more wire.

    Thanks for the info.

    Homer.
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    25,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    Do a search on the forum for Stuart Robinson's comments on this subject.
     
  5. MikeK

    MikeK
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    As I've only recently started to use this forum, I did this, and it was quite an interesting read.
    Nothing proved either way, but it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who thinks along similar lines as Stuart.

    One of the things which also surprises me when discussions go on about cables, is that the subject of cable length hardly ever seems to get a mention.
    I think everyone will accept that no cable, no matter how expensive, can actually improve the signal it passes - it's simply the degree to which it might degrade it.
    Capacitance, inductance, resistance (although any pure resistance component would only attenuate the signal level), dielectric absoption etc etc, are all cumulative - the shorter the cable, the less the combined effects of all these factors.
    My own opinion is that in the real world, it's irrelevant in any case with the cable lengths we are using on home hifi/AV, but maybe some people have better ears than me!



    As for scientific tests - well, it's interesting, but I think that too is largely irrelevant. At the end of the day, the only blind listening test which matters, is the one done by the person who is considering buying the cable.
    If they can consistently pick out one cable from another in a blind test, and that cable does actually make the sound better in their opinion, then as far as they are concerned, discussion over.
    But if they can't........... and I believe that once you get past the ridiculously cheap and unsuitable stuff, few people will actually be able to, then my advice would be to not fall for the marketing hype, fancy packaging, daft reviews and outrageous pseudo scientific claims, and spend your money on something more tangible.


    The best one of all is digital coax leads.
    Provided the cable meets the basic design requirements, it can be proved that the cable itself makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to the datastream, yet still they (certain cable manufacturers and magazines (who coincidentally carry advertising from the same cable companies)) persist with this myth that it does, and convince people to fork out £30 or more for what is essentially a "few quid" item. Nice little earner for them I suppose!
    I would wager £100 with anybody who claims that they can consistently pick out any digital coax cable they care to mention, on any equipment they like, from my home constructed £4 jobbie, in a blind test, on the basis of better sound quality (obviously some joker would be able to pick out one which simply didn't work :) ) Of course, I collect £100 if they can't :)
     
  6. Samir

    Samir
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Homer
    Go with your ears.
    After Bi-wiring my M74's with Cable Talk 3.1, I felt that they was an improvement and that it sounded so much cleaner.
    But thats me, and remember it's down to personal taste. Who cares if a guy on this forum or in a shop says otherwise because it's down to you. :rolleyes:
    Samir
     
  7. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    Dodgy crossovers in the mission then Samir:devil:
     
  8. Samir

    Samir
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Nic
    I know that you aren't a fan of bi-wiring, but are the M74's or missions in general know to have suspect crossovers.:confused:

    Samir
     
  9. john87

    john87
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    MikeK, two great posts, very helpful :)
     

Share This Page

Loading...