second room setup using multiple tv/av amps

redz

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after a bit of advice if what I'm trying to do will work as i expect it before buying the extra kit!

i currently have

virgin
sky
mac mini media server
xbox one
xbox 360
ps3
hd dvd
bluray
wii

all routed through a Denon AVRx4000 to a samsung plasma tv that will be replaced with a new 4k one.

This works great with the anynet system controlling the bluray hidden behind the cabinet and using hdmi out 1 as tv/movies and hdmi out 2 as gaming mode.

heres where the fun starts!

Zone 1 can stay as is working fine with the two hdmi outs. The third hdmi out can operate as Zone2 which i want to utilize in the garage that i am converting to a dining/game room, and switch to any of the sources independent of zone 1 including 3d and i want to future proof to support 4k. (obv the two things i can't use are the wii and the kinect from the xboxone)


i want to run approx 10m of hdmi under the floor to a second amp which i intend to be a denon avrx2000 and then about a further 6m from that amp to the tv.

1) will this be too long a hdmi run or will the second av amp solve any dropout issues?

2)will using a second denon in the same system cause me any issues, (i.e. anynet hdmi controls) the ip addresss can be changed to operate using the app/web controller, or should i use a diff brand?

3) where is the best place to get the hdmi - i have used cables uk previously but one of these has stopped working after 3 months :/

4) any drawbacks to using a 6m optical from tv as i use the samsung media streamer to access the media center and this is how i currently send the surround signal to the amp in living room.

5) best way to control the sky/virgin/bluray/hddvd from the other room.

6) will using a nas drive be as quick as the mac mini with a usb external drive? currently running on a gigabit ethernet network.

current set up
IMG_3299.jpg
 
It is generally suggested not to use HDMI cable runs longer than 8m in length and use HDMI over cat5/6 instead.

Note that it is unlikely that your AVRX4000 will comply with any new standard associated with 4K Blu-ray. It is expected that HDCP 2.2 will be used and your receiver lacks this.

Anynet is simply what Samsung call their implementation of HDMI Control. I think I'm correct when I say that the HDMI zone 2 output on your receiver lacks support for HDMI CEC (Control) so you'd have no conflict issues associated with the destination devices connected to it?

It is also generally suggested that optical cables not exceed 5m in length without using repeaters and or signal boosters.

REmote control can be fascilitated via a universal learning remote such as one of Logitech's Harmony remotes. The Ultimate is RF equipped and comes with a hub that facilitates multiroom use. Control of some devices may also be possible via app control executed via a SMART phone or tablet device. This will depend upon whether your devices support this over a local area network? Note that the PS3 cannot easily be controlled remotely due to its reliance on bluetooth for remote control signals.

Accessing content on a NAS will be just as fast as accessing it on your Mac.
 
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cheers for the reply.

i can poss get away with 8m but will need to remeasure! same again with the optical but am i missing trick here because if the tv is connected by hdmi surely it will send the audio when streaming via arc?

bit annoyed about the 4k as it says 4k supported??? would i be better waiting for new lines to come out ad then moving the 4000 into the second room or will it suffice for a few more years? intend to upgrade every 3 years.
 
You can use ARC rather than use an additional optical connection.

As far as 4K goes, I'd suggest not bothering with it for at least another 12 months. There are no agreed standards for it.
 
doh, need a new tv and thought this years would do the job... surely the evolution box from samsung would solve any future issues?
 
Samsung are probably the only manufacturer to have factored hardware updatability into their newer TV's. The Evolution modules should in theory allow TV's lacking certain features needed for new 4K UHD stanards to be catered for. You'd still need to await the new standards and a new Evolution module in order to benefit from this though. It is more a matter relating to AV receivers than it is a matter relating to 4K TVs. Only Onkyo have announced new receivers that includes the ability to handle HDCP 2.2 compyright protected content. HDCP 2.2 is being put forward by many of the studios as a requirement for any future UHD 4K disc standard.
 
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No idea? The longer the cable then the more likely you are to have issues with it. A cable can work in conjunction with some devices, but fail to work when then used with others. While the HDMI standards set out the minimum and maximum power the interface can use, they do not use a fixed voltage. This means that some devices are less able to power a signal along a longer cable than others. I'd generally suggest not using HDMI cables longer than 8m in order to avoid issues relating to signal dropout.
 
UHD - hopefully soon 4K will disappear :)

UHD - as Seb says I'd wait as current gen kit is too early in the product cycle.

Features - know which Features you require rather than looking for Version numbers or 'standards'.

AVR to AVR - I will be pretty surprised if that works as expected, AVR's are not generally designed to be cascaded and CEC will throw a major wobble!

Matrix - it's more likely that you plumb your Sources to a Matrix and the Matrix feeds the two AVR,s.

CAT6 - you could use an 'over' CAT Matrix to achieve your required cable run.

Joe
 
i have played around with matrix's before but the reason i bought this amp was the ability to connect ALL sources and select anyone of them independently in either zone.

maybe i need to contact denon or the nice people at richer sounds may let me try the denon 200 and return if it doesn't work as i thought....

im not sure what to do about tbs now though??? i need an new one and seems stupid not to get a 4k one yet also stupid too get one :s
 
'i need an new one and seems stupid not to get a 4k one' - keep in mind '4K' means nothing!

UHD is the 'under discussion' standard for Consumer Displays with higher than 1920x1080 resolution - look past the supported resolution and you have to consider supported frequency range, bit depth, Color space... it is very early days in the product development.

‘i bought this amp was the ability to connect ALL sources and select anyone of them independently in either zone.’ – the potential for a problem is where you want to hand over to a second AVR, that is likely to throw HDCP into a complete spin.

‘i have played around with matrix's’ – as long as you ensure all Zones support the same range of signals there should be no problem using a Matrix as the Hub of your system.

Joe
 
bit late now.. the main amp is in and all wired behind the av unit!!

guess i will have to test it all out! lol

i am now stumped for a tv now though..
 
the potential for a problem is where you want to hand over to a second AVR, that is likely to throw HDCP into a complete spin.



I've an AVR3313 connected via it second zone HDMI output to a Yamaha RXV2065 in another room. There no issue associated with HDCP in such a setup. The AVRX4000's second HDMI zone capabilitires are exactly the same as my AVR3313's.

The AVRX4000 will be perfectly fine for what you are proposing and there is no reason to use or employ an external matrix. Neither have I seen anyone post anything mentioning issues that would equate to what Joe Fernand is suggesting?
 
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and does it pass through the original source i.e. 5.1 3d etc?

I'm trying to plan ahead as much as possible before any building work starts! its meant to be a dining room but trying to squeeze in another av setup for gaming etc when the main room is in use by the other half!

i think i can get the hdmi for amp1 to 2 at 7m and then 6m to the tv by locating amp 2 in there understairs cupboard. assuming it works of the tv remote via anynet then in theory i should never need to see it.
 
Yes, it will passthrough whatever the source is set to output as long as the receiver you are outputting to has the ability to handle that audio and passthrough that video. The TV would also need to be equiped apropriately in terms of the video signal. Can't comment on 3D myself because neither the Yamaha receiver or my second room's TV are 3D capable, but many have such setups in their second room and have no issue with passing through 3D content from the main room to the second HDMI zone.

The AVRX4000 effectively has a matrix built in and you are simply passing the HDMI source through and out via the dedicated second HDMI zone output.
 
so just gotta rethink the tv now then :(
 
Hey Dante - Joe is fine :)

Good to hear your dual AVR setup is working - what happens on the second AVR when someone in Zone 1 toggles to and then away from the Source you are viewing in Zone 2?

3D will depend on the EDID being sent to the Source from the Zone 1 AVR - different AVR may deal with HDCP and EDID differently.

I'd still suggest a Matrix is going to be a more robust solution - I haven't seen an AVR with EDID and HDCP management you can influence to ensure your system works as expected.

Joe
 
i have read through the manual and the tinter webs.. zone 1 and 2 are completely independent of each other and outputs two separate sources or the same. as for the rest of the technojargon stuff i guess its a case of suck it and see!!
 
HDMI is very rarely completely 'independent' - the devices are constantly chattering away in the background.

If someone in one Zone toggles to the same Source as being viewed in another Zone the Source has to stop what it is doing to initiate a new HDCP session with the two Sinks (AVR's) and stop again if one Sink toggles away to another Source.

In a Matrix you can make provision for 'constant' HDCP (otherwise the system 'blinks' whenever a change is made) haven't seen that in any multi-zone AVR - hopefully Dante can confirm how his system reacts when multiple viewers are toggling between Sources.

Joe
 
could well be possible but can't ever see it being a problem as the switching of sources is highly unlikely. just need to be able to view two diff ones in each room..
 
Good to hear your dual AVR setup is working - what happens on the second AVR when someone in Zone 1 toggles to and then away from the Source you are viewing in Zone 2?


Nothing the source remains as it should in both rooms. What is it you are suggesting happens? The source can be the same as long as the signal doesn't exceed the capabilities of the equipment in both rooms.
 
The Source should 'blink' when it's changing HDCP sessions if it's being switched from One to Two and back to One Sink.

Joe
 
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so..
i am now considering using cat 5e cable as i have two reels of it spare!

what HDMI over ethernet do you all recommend and will this support 4k or future advances?? i think i will need two sets so consider budget options!!
 
I'm using this unit:

HDBaseT Extender Set with IR POC and 4K2K Support

I slso believe that there's an AVF members discount available?

Despite being able to passthrough 4K content, this isn't to say it will comply with the actual finalised 4K UHD standards or their HDCP requirements. No product can be guaranteed compatible until there's actually a standard finalised.

Trying to buy and setup anything ready for 4K now is a pointless excercise because there is as yet no standards. As said, forget about it for at least another 12 months.
 
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Ideally you want to use solid core CAT6 - CAT5 can work but can also become a bandwidth limitation and can limit how far you get certain signals to run.

Joe
 

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