SD Screenshots with SD DVD...(not HD Shock)

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by ukroadster, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. ukroadster

    ukroadster
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    Hi all

    I have been looking at all the HD 720 + 1080 talk and have seen and owned two HD pj's myself (Z4 and TX200) and have been very tempted to upgrade my PJ (Sharp z200e) to a IN76 or HD72i again just recently.

    The problem I have is that I watch 99% SD DVD's which are 576 and so most of these will have to be rescaled to fit a 720 PJ which i suspect will soften and not improve the pic.

    My curret Sharp Z200e is a native 576 and so i am currently getting 1:1 pixel mapping and what I feel is an excellent pic (especially as the pj cost only £550 new - Thanks Oakleyspats for that). HD stuff fed in to the PJ also looks very good (obviously downscaled).

    I have looked at some of the HD screenshots on the forum and thought "they look good" although I know you cant really tell anything from screenshots I thought i would post some of my 576 SD PJ for comparison and just so people can have a look out of interest at what a screenshot of a lowly SD PJ looks like.

    No doubt that a HD PJ showing HD material looks superb in the flesh but for those who watch mostly standard DVD's (and most of us have a pretty large collection)I thought these shots might be useful.

    I know you can say screenshots are meaningless but I am always 'taking' from the forum so thought i would 'give' something for a change, if for no other reason than to give a few people considering a PJ some idea of the pic quality they provide. And its about time i took some having been following this forum for some time now.:thumbsup:

    They were taken with a cheap digi camera (flash off in landscape mode) using a denon 1920 via component (shock...no HDMI:) ) on a plain plainted almond white wall (no screen yet:( )>. As you can see, it wasnt fully dark and you can still see the ceiling,coving and top of the plasma etc showing that I havent played with the pics to get a perfect black. Oh, and as always the pictures look better in the flesh because as soon as you pause the pic the detail gets smeared :rolleyes: but its the best i could do.

    Hope they are some interest to someone:rolleyes: :boring: and I have decided to stick with with my Sharp for now (at least until all new released films are easily available in HD or BLueray format).

    This is not supposed to be a HD v Sd debate but just some screenshots of SD to hopefully show there is life in the old dog yet and to show the importance of not introducing unnecessary scaling. (thats if the pics come out ok :rolleyes: :suicide: )

    The pics can be found at

    http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/ukroadster/PJ Pics/

    if the thumbnails dont work.

    Hope they are of some benefit to someone :cool:

    Cheers

    Andy
     

    Attached Files:

  2. fluffrick

    fluffrick
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    Thanks for these pics - for the time being, until this whole HD thing sorts itself out - this is pretty much the set-up which I'll be using, albeit with the addition of the freebie screen which came with my PJ.

    SD looks pretty good on a large screen, doesn't it?

    Easy to lose track of that in these days of HD craziness...
     
  3. ukroadster

    ukroadster
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    Glad you liked them :thumbsup:

    I think the reason they look ok is because its a 576 source in to a 576 PJ and therefore no scaling.

    I did see some 480 PJ's and they did look softer when playing dvd's so I guess the point I am trying to make is that its still worth using a native 576 PJ with DVD.
     
  4. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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  5. Anim

    Anim
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    Thanks for sharing that with us, It's a shame we don't have more 576p projectors really. The only other one I know of is the Infocus In74 but for almost the same price you can get the In76.

    Anim
     
  6. Jigster

    Jigster
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    Ive been looking for 576p projectors but as Anim says, there's not much choice. This means for watching SD dvds, which i will be, everything is a compromise.

    I wonder if you had the choice of a IN72 (480p) IN74 (576p) or IN76 (720p) for the same price, and you were playing only SD dvds/tv (PAL - 576p), with the option of a upscaling dvd player (if necessary) which would give you the best PQ?
     
  7. Anim

    Anim
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    Good question. I have around SD 400 DVD's and no plan to replace them just yet :D

    Anim
     
  8. anibap

    anibap
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    Hi

    Some screenshots from my collection. But mines a 480p PJ and all PAL DVDs projected on a wall.

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345170
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=399645
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286289

    I think as long as you are watching DVDs there is no need to upgrade to HD PJ. I am saving to buy a good HD PJ somewhere in 2007-2008 when Titles and broadcasts will be avaialble easiliy for the HD revolution. I feel HD is more of a craziness now and people are trying to get too picky about aspects of HD rather than the beauty of the actual content which is shown on the PJ. When you come out of a theatre most people will talk how the movie was not about contrast ratio, sharpness etc etc..

    Strangely, people nowadays tend to see few drawbacks with their current SD PJ and feel to upgrade within 6 months but it was the most wow thing when it came out of the box the first time. I do not understand how in few months that can change.

    Well, we all are somehow the victim of getting the next new thing which comes to us whether we need or not.

    It also works on your mind in kind of status - Are you HD ready? well the question should be is that a necessity or a requirement to my needs?

    Many people will say it is future fit. So what? the future moves fastre than you can imagine. A future fit machine will go out of the window in 4-6 months due to promos and hype and again you will feel the bug biting you.

    All my opinion.....

    Cheers

    A
     
  9. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    I think sometimes the most annoying thing about SD is not always the resolution, but when you get lower bit-rates. If you get high bit-rates, with a good transfer, SD DVD can be awesome. Close-ups often show SD in it's best light. If you have a landscape shot, there is no getting away with that there is a lack of resolution to give that 'wow' factor.

    One of the real drawback with digital is that the resolution lowers as things get smaller (obvious I know ), whereas with analogue film the resolution is constant. With digital audio as a song fades out the bits are getting less and less until, at the very end of the fade, there is digital noise where it finds it hard to differentiate between silence and music; because there aren't the bits to handle it. Analogue tape it was just your signal to noise ratio that caused problems with fades.
     
  10. anibap

    anibap
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    Very valid point Timbo,

    With my experiment with HD sample movies from Windows Media HD i found that the footages look absolutley stunning whihc i have never seen in my PJ with a SD source.

    HD sources definitely adds the higher bitrate and a superior picture quality. But at the same time HD sources or titles are not either affordable/ do not have the good transfer / subcriptions are expensive and so many other limitation in getting the right source.

    So my point is for all newbies and who cannot afford good machines or who are not going to use HD sources in the next 6months to 1 year it is better to buy a very good SD projector (SD projectors are at their most mature level now + some early generation HD ) for their huge collection of SD DVDs and upgrade later. It saves money and provides a good reason to upgrade.
    For all who can afford , they should take the role of advisors to help us trasnsition through technology and the benefits coming out of it.
     
  11. Anim

    Anim
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  12. anibap

    anibap
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    Just confirmed a long awaited experiment. :thumbsup:

    I will be visiting a friend of mine tomorrow. He is having a professionaly setup IN76 with HDMI and with Beamax screen - all done by Sevenoaks.:cool:

    I will take my H27 with me. Other than watching movies, we are going to do some experiment with SD and HD material using the same source. The guy is having SkyHD at home.

    :( Unfortunately I do not have the DVI-D to HDMI adapter so will have to test both PJs using comonent but will see how the difference is with HDMI / component on the IN76.

    I have waited long for this day and will post a full story after our experiment.

    I am sure the IN76 will outperform the H27 but i would like to see by how much and if there are any improvements on SD material with the IN76s superior image processing power.

    cant wait longer....
     
  13. anibap

    anibap
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  14. ukroadster

    ukroadster
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    There is no doubt that hd material on a HD PJ will look significantly better - I have seen it and it does, especially panned out landscape shots etc as mentioned above.

    It will be interesting to see how SD material on a HD machine compares to SD material on an SD PJ.

    Anibap, Its a shame your SD PJ is not 576 though as that was part of my point really. Having said that your screen shots look great:smashin:

    IE I have a big DVD collection which is all 576p and via my 576 PJ no scaling is required and the pic is sharper than it was on my Hitachi TX200 and Sanyo Z4 which were 720p.

    So, no doubt HD looks better on a HD PJ but by the same theory, SD DVD should look better on a 576 SD PJ unless the scaler in the HD PJ (or upscaling dvd player) is very good.

    SO , if you watch mainly DVD's then a 576 PJ is good value. However with SKy HD gathering pace then a HD PJ with a good scaler is probably the way to go but i am happy with my 576 pj for now as I am not going to ditch all my dvd collection.
     
  15. ukroadster

    ukroadster
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    Anibap

    Where abouts are you roughly as I wouldnt mind seeing an IN76 in action:)
     
  16. anibap

    anibap
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    That is what i want to see in the IN76. It is a very highly rated machine. and I have not seen it working. So testing my H27 against it will be interesting

    I tested the same DVDs on PannyAe900 and one more 720p LCD PJ while buying the H27 and liked the H27.

    You are right about a 1:1 mapping with a 576PJ and it should look the best.
     
  17. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    Unless it is a R1 DVD which would be upscaled from 480.
     
  18. sirata

    sirata
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    I have a sharp xv201,and still very pleased with the picture after a year, santa
    bought me an xbox 36o and hd dvd add on, so looking forward to seeing what
    that looks like.
    The best picture sd wise i have seen on it so far, is Titanic,which was split
    over 2 discs.
     

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