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Screen Shots

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Phil Hinton, Feb 27, 2002.

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  1. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Ok third time Lucky?

    Here are some screen shots taken with new digital camera. The PJ is a Barco data 800 and the screen size is 7.5ft wide,16:9.

    I do have crohma delay as the dvd is connected by s-video and no line doubler is used yet.

    Also Inc some new photos of the room (which is still nowhere near finished-ran out of money) with new Boston THX speakers and second Rel Storm.

    Have a look
     
  2. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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  3. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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  4. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    o
     
  5. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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  6. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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  7. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    As the well heeled with have noticed the THX shot, has chroma delay. The blue on the sides of the box have shifted left.

    The 20th century one has not come out well, it looks washed out, which I can assure you it aint.

    It is very hard to get good screen shots, I have been trying for hours to get them as good as i can, they look *alright* but nothing great.

    The room is far from finished so excuse the cables on show. I have ran out of money recently, but hope to get it sorted soon and will be adding a quadscan.
     
  8. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    I have tried new lighting switch on camera how is this?
     
  9. museumsteve

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    THX..
    thanks for the efforts mate.
    I keep promising to take some piccies, but 'cos my room is black (everything) I find it hard to get anything worth showing..
    Must try harder..
     
  10. graham.myers

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    Good piccies THX :)

    I've just treated myself to a flash for my digi camcorder so I'll try and post up some too
     
  11. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    THanks,

    I am still trying the camera out, so i maybe able to improve the piccies.
     
  12. Mr.D

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    some tips.

    Proper exposure is all about deciding where you want to put the middle point of your intensity scale ( ie mid grey). ( too high and you'll wash out the lower intensities and clip the whites and too low and you'll clip the lower intensities) Actually shooting a grey ramp will tell you if you are putting grey in the right place and also tell everyone else what the relationship is like between black point and white point on the PJ and give a frame of reference as to what the resulting image is like in the real world

    What I'd do is put up a mid gray field off VE or an image with predominately middle tones and take an exposure reading then leave the camera on that exposure for everything else you shoot unless you change the settings on the PJ.

    Remember you can pause the frame for as long as is necessary to get a good exposure so leave your shutter speed quite low to avoid catching any refresh artifacts and use a tripod. ( screen ain't going anywhere after all) Then just adjust for correct exposure with the aperture. Focus by eye but if in doubt measure it with an old fashioned tape measure: on a zoom lens what you could do is zoom right in focus on the scan lines/pixels and zoom out and it should stay in focus.

    In low light conditions the lower end digital cameras will start to produce noisy images try and use film if at all possible and scan it. Again if you've shot a grey ramp it will give an indication as to what your scanner has done to the image .

    And Phil come on man get yourself a scaler ! Get jeffy to knock you up a cheap HTPC !
     
  13. Boris Blank

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    Blimey - I missed that! I can't watch Svideo DVD on my projector 'cause it looks so bad compared to the PSM/1! I can't believe you are doing this to yourself THX - do you get a kick out of watching poor quality displays or something?!

    Watching a Barco in Svideo is like, well, having a w**k but not c**ing - pointless! Come on THX, jump in the fast lane man!
    Paul
     
  14. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Paul,

    You gonna buy me one? If you don't know the background, the room cost less than £4k all in!

    I don't have the dosh for a scaler yet, but it is on the list, and at a seating position of 13.5ft I dont see the scanlines at the moment. Although there are some artifacts i can live with it till I gat a scaler. It is far from pointless! I am happy enough to wait. You have obviously never heard of Tantra either:rolleyes: :p :D
     
  15. Boris Blank

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    Hi Phil,
    Yep, I know about your HC room - its a cracker for the money mate! Must admit, I skimped on the speakers as I'm more interested in the display than the audio which is why I investigated scalers the moment I got a CRT. Did you ever try an HTPC, even just to see what it looks like? Easily done if you are just tinkering about but a lesson in frustration to get it just right!

    He he - nah, not a Tantra man myself - doubt I would have the ability to stop nature taking its course so to speak!
    Regards,
    Paul
     
  16. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Paul,

    I did try the PC to see what it looked like, and it was a fantastic difference, but also depressing as I couldn't get the thing to play right. I am not very Computer minded and struggle just to open a session of Windows!:eek:

    Would happily pay someone to build me a decent one that is easy to use, or swap a Sub for a ready made example!:rolleyes:
     
  17. Boris Blank

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    Phil,
    Yep, getting it to play right is the hard bit. I know a fair bit about HTPC's and DVD software etc (mainly through trial and error!) and whilst its easy enough to get one to give a good display, getting a perfect display was nigh on impossible. I never solved the stutter problem in panning shots no matter what I did and it drove me crazy! I eventually gave up, I think you need a lot of patients and the will to delve deep into the software before things will work exactly the way they should - that last couple % of HTPC perfection is very hard to get.

    However, I must say that my latest HTPC rig (that I don't actually use, and no, this is not a sales pitch as I'm not selling it) uses Win 2k, PowerDVD 4 and thats it, no Powerstrip, no YXY (or is it XYX, i forget) and bang, it works every time. I faffed about with Powerstrip and I suspect it caused more problems that it solved, in particular the negative sync fiasco - the moment I stopped using Powerstrip and used 1024 x 768 the projector synced up every time no problem!

    Have you seen a Quadscan in action? After HTPC I was a bit disappointed with it, and sold mine on. I then went for the PSM/1 module and have had no regrets. It doesn't scale other sources (at the moment) but certainly the quality easily matches HTPC without the hassle. I read somewhere that a new Quadscan is due this year - might be worth hanging on for that?!

    Anyway, way off topic which is my fault - keep posting the piccies, its good to see other folks setups, if only to poach good ideas and to try to decide if your own is better or worse than the other fella's! Like the blue colour scheme, I went for a darker deeper blue-green all round - Hawaiian Blue its called or similar.

    What ya intend using to hide the cables? I had thought to bury them behind the plasterboard in the wall but will probably end up just using plastic ducting round the skirting board (I figured that given the room is in total darkness most of the time that no-one would notice the ducting if painted the same colour as the walls! Plus if I need to change something I can do it very quickly). I might put the cables for the rear speakers in the walls though but there are 4 of them and I'm inclined just to use flat speaker cable and just attach them to the wall and paint over them - quick and easy!

    Paul
     
  18. Dick Scratcher

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    PaulB,

    I've tinkered with a few software dvd players like PowerDVD4, WinDVD and AsusDVD2000 which came with my GeForce III and all suffered from a certain amount of stutter which appeared to lessen (but not disappear) the lower I set the refresh rate. However, when playing the same discs through my Hollywood Plus card the gremlins were gone, the panning was smooth and the picture looked bloody great. I don't have a CRT PJ I just messed around with my PC and used a 19" iiyama Diamondtron monitor as the display. How come cards like the Hollywood Plus don't get much of a mention in HTPC threads?
     
  19. Boris Blank

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    Dick (!?),
    Good question, which in part you have already answered! On a small screen these hardware cards look very, very good, but, they don't actually scale and deinterlace good enough for use with a projector onto a large screen.

    As far as I recall (and its been a while so I could be totaly wrong so anyone that knows better please jump in), the hardware cards sort of superimpose (or overlay) the picture onto your monitor rather than actually scale it to the screen resolution of say 1024x768. The end result looks great on a standard monitor because its fairly small but the picture gets steadily worse as the display size increases so by the time it reaches say 5ft wide it begins to look really bad.

    Software scalers such as PowerDVD do a far better job almost by accident! I'll explain - Power DVD etc were all originally designed to run DVD's on a monitor cheaply and easily using the existing VGA card installed on a PC. On a PC, they produce a picture comparable to the hardware cards but suck up more processor time as they run in software. For a while these hardware cards were very popular but once processors got beyond 300hz or so, the software scalers, which were either very cheap or even free, began to take over from the hardware cards to the extent that the cards are more or less redundant. Now, most projectors can accept a VGA input of some sort so once people cottoned on to the fact that PowerDVD (for example) could take a DVD and scale it (an deinterlace it) to a resolution that a projector could accept AND produce an image comparable to a stand alone scaler costing £'000's, people sat up and took notice. Thus the concept of HTPC was born.

    The problems you are suffering using a software player are common and its that that puts people off them. The problems can be cured with a bit of tweaking and perserverence (I eventually gave up on mine due to virtually incurable panning stutter - maybe I was a bit picky though!) but sometimes you may have to compromise. Luck seems to be a factor in HTPC rather than quality parts!

    In a nutshell for a Home Cinema;
    Software player - great picture, cheap, some quite technical problems
    Hardware player - more expensive, poor quality, few if any problems

    Once you have seen a software player driving a projector you will never use a hardware card again. For play back on a PC monitor (or driving a TV using S-Video output), the card is an excellent and arguably better choice.

    A bit long-winded but hopefully clear!
    Regards,
    paul
     
  20. harry_thx

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    Hi

    @THX1138

    here is one screenshot of my Barco808, fed by a PAL progressive Arcam DV27.
    The picture was made with a digital Ixus.

    Regards


    Harry
     

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  21. squid

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    Everyone says this but i run my electrohome ecp 4500 crt on a 72" wide 4:3 screen and use a H+ . with all the talk of soft players i tried windvd and powerdvd but the results were rather disapointing . there was no end of stepping and bad panning ect .

    the quality of the H+ looks rather bad if not set up right . it sort of shimmers . fi you set the stability control right then this is gone and the pic looks very smooth and film like . the other thing is that my hcpc is not just for the hc but is more of a multy function machine . i can dl of the net and have a virus checker installed at the same time as watching a filmwith the H+ ,this is imposable with anything else without a lot of problems :(
     
  22. nfordenfield

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    Have tried HTPC and must admit that for DVD it was good.

    Can even use my laptop set at 1024x768 which gives a good pic.

    Rumours are that the XBOX will support HD on games and DVD, so this may be a cheaper solution.

    Personally is use a QUADSCAN set at XGA to feed my Data 800, which takes svhs from the SKY+ and Component from the Pioneer DVD and soon compnent from the XBOX when the leads arrives from Hong Kong.

    Personally, you do need some scaling for the Barco, otherwise its like trying to run you Ferrari on two stroke petrol !!!!!!!!!!!

    Unleash the beast and enjoy.

    Hell if nothing else you get another remote.

    Nathan
     
  23. Guest

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    Chaps.
    Any chance of some screenshots that arnt bloody Toy story or thx logos? ..or Gladiator(yawn...)...

    What about the Matrix or the Mummy?..lets have a little tougher test in future eh..

    Doug


    :p
     
  24. uncle eric

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    Doug,
    Actually yes. Take a look at a few of mine over on the General Chat section in a thread entitled 'My room, a few pictures'
    Not a cartoon or roman soldier to be seen anywhere.

    Eric
     
  25. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    If you care to actually look at my screen shots you will see no Toy Story or Gladiator shots, so i am a little puzzled again at your general sweeping statement.
     
  26. Roland @ B4

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    I struggle with screen shots ( this thred if I recall) and their worth. Especially when people start to quote brightness, contrast and colour values. These cameras are uncallibrated, have a limited resoloution (mostly less than the display) let alone the changes that happen between the camera and the viewers screen.

    (cheerleader shots are however acceptable): ;)
     
  27. Nilakulma

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    Talking about screenshots look at these .

    Pertti.
     
  28. Jeff

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    Yes Bjoern is such an artist. I love his screen shots.
     
  29. uncle eric

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    Theres a shop called 'Foiled' in Tottenham Court road, London. They should have it in next week.

    Eric
     
  30. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Can I just say that Bjoern's are amazing but I can't help notice there are NO cheerleaders...I will address this here...

    Roland: The camera's aren't calibrated but what I see colour wise on my laptop seems to mimic the differences I measure very accurately....Bjoerns are some of the few screen shots that capture the extraordinary depth of image you get from good projection devices.

    Here's a screenshot to redress the balance...From after THE EVENT. CineMax fed by sdi737 to Vigatec. Doesn't do any credit to what it actually looked like but subject matter meets criteria!!!
     

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