[Screen in place, Calib to do] Worth calibrating before having a screen in place?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by dms, Feb 8, 2018.

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    1. dms

      dms
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      I've never bothered having a projector calibrated professionally before but with the Sony 760 it feels it would be rude not to. I also saw an uncalibrated HD projector recently which had utterly off colours which the guy thought was nonsense "because it came like that out the box and they know what they're doing", which makes me wonder how much my own image may change when calibrated!

      One problem I have though is I'm projecting on a white wall (completely normal dulux) and haven't gotten anywhere choosing a screen. I have never used them and haven't a clue about brand/surface. It's also complex as the way my wife likes the screen the top of the image (of 16:9) is about 5 inches from the top of the ceiling (if that) and so I doubt a pull down with black borders would fit. I don't think we can move the image down as we've getting a cabinet to cover up part of the wall which means the centre speaker will be pretty much just below where the image projects... so maybe we'll get a fixed screen... but then the Mrs thinks we may as well projector on the wall, and she has a point.

      So though I have various issues (like what on earth screen to go for, the width of the projected image is about 270cm by the way, we assume we'll need a 16:9 screen as the Mrs likes her image BIG) the question I had in my mind was...

      Is it a waste of time getting a projector calibrated when you haven't installed a screen yet, given the screen being installed will change at the absolute minimum the focusing but presumably it may effect other settings too?
       
    2. Roku2

      Roku2
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      It's not a waste if you are planningt o use the wall long-term. But if you are planning to use a screen wait for the screen before paying for pro calibration
       
    3. Vila

      Vila
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      Running a (high end and very expensive) native 4K projector on a dulux wall is a bit of a false economy.

      Many pull down or electronic screens have an adjustable drop (they come down to where you want them to come down to.)

      If you preferred to get a fixed screen you'd find the surface superior to a dulux wall and the boarder would give you improved pervieved contrast. Typically they're less expensive than tab tensioned pull down screens.

      Many dealers that have screen will also have calibration services - Personally I'd go look at some screens to get an idea of what might be suitable and then see if you can negotiate a better price with a calibration as part of the deal.
       
    4. Steve Withers

      Steve Withers
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      You really need to buy a good fixed screen to go with your 760 and I'd definitely get it calibrated as well.
       
    5. dms

      dms
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      We have every intention of getting a screen, it's just we wanted to get the projector up first to see where it would project and what size image we'd get. Thought that was better than trying to figure it out using the online calculators!

      We've had it a week and a half now but are absolutely lost at what screen to get. The place we got it from recommend Draper but it's not as if that narrows it down a lot option wise!

      The problem with an adjustable drop is that I assumed we'd want a black border on the screen and that would mean a fixed aspect ratio.
       
    6. Roku2

      Roku2
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      I personally prefer edge-free screen. I find borders distracting.
       
    7. dms

      dms
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      I think realistically that'll be the choice as Mrs wants her "large as possible" 16:9 being an option.

      I still don't have the foggiest of what brand/mechanism/surface to go for. I gather wanting something to keep the screen taught means electric is the only choice for instance.

      I dodgy projector install I saw also had a cheap screen (pull down) which curved at the edges and so wasn't flat... something I want to avoid!
       
    8. jont

      jont
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    9. dms

      dms
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      Problem with a fixed screen is that it is in our lounge (which still looks like a normal lounge but with 3 speakers against a blank wall ;-). We'd like to avoid a fixed screen as they we could put a picture behind the screen (if it's roll down or electric) to try and make it more of a lounge again.

      That said it does depend on cost...
       
    10. gamingdave

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      Adjustable drop screens are still a fixed aspect ratio, normally with around an inch or two of black border on the sides and bottom edge, but then (in the case of mine) a couple of feet of black above. That way you can drop it to different heights and use lens shift to position.

      In use, I always drop mine as low as it goes, except for over xmas when the tree in the bay window stops me pulling it all the way down.

      The casing on mine is probably pushing 5" which in your situation would be a tight fit, but you can get them recessed into the ceiling.
       
    11. Steve Withers

      Steve Withers
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      Fair enough, there are plenty of good electric screens. Just make sure they keep the screen material rigid so there are no undulations – trust they would drive you nuts. You should get your 760 calibrated after you have installed your screen because it will affect the calibration.
       
    12. dms

      dms
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      Ok great. Will hold off till I get a screen for sure (Mrs/I were debating it). Now I need a screen... some of the costs I've seen of them will mean they wait a bit... but I've had people throw figures from £300 to £2000 without any reference to any specific product/spec.
       
    13. Steve Withers

      Steve Withers
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      They can be quite expensive, especially a good motorised screen but ultimately it's worth the investment. How dark is your lounge, is there a lot of reflected light?
       
    14. dms

      dms
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      Well when we have figures we'll consider it. If a screen price puts us (well her) off it'll be the dulux wall, which is a shame.

      The lounge has a tiny windows with blinds on one side and two great folding doors to the garden (the place wasn't bought on the basis of a projector set up ;-(. Mrs/I are in discussions on how to block the light off from there, but given where we are there is no light pollution at night to speak of, it's just when the sun shines in at the "right" angle to hit the projected wall.

      In a word I'd say "pretty dark" in the evening.
       
    15. HAWK-EYE

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    16. dms

      dms
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      Yes I read that one but I wasnt convinced at the time about lack of calibration by the reviwer. i have read at least one other review where they took the opposite view.

      When I was at the store demo a Sony distributor was there and he said his unit had only had the contrast changed... perhaps that's true but it looked stunning in store... on a screen of course.

      I have tried to adjust panel alignment as that was certainly out and I don't feel I've done it properly... but first time for everything and it is better now.

      Also cinema 1 and 2 are definitely different on my setup contrary to that review. I've stuck with cinema 1 so far but I don't know what is right.... changing the settings on the first minute of blade runner 2049 changed the colours to a huge extent between the modes.
       
    17. dms

      dms
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      So the guy who sold me the projector is basically suggesting a Draper and they have a manual, tab-tension, 264cm image wide, 16:9 for a mere USD2,000 (no idea what that price in the UK is yet).

      Premier C Manual Projection Screen :: Draper, Inc.

      Any comments or surface suggestions? Just go with the default?

      Much cheaper would be

      Luma 2 with AR Manual Projection Screen :: Draper, Inc.

      which is pull down and not tab tensioned... but says

      "This free-hanging, fiberglass-backed projection screen maintains flatness thanks to the weight of the screen and bottom dowel."

      It looks a hell of a lot better to me for lounge and costs a mere US$782 on the Draper website (i assume that means it's cheaper elsewhere!
       
    18. dms

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    19. mbmapit

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      I'm literally lost for words regarding this thread. You have a £15K projector and you're thinking of skimping on a vital part of your system? Do you really want to have to pull your screen down manually? A screen without tab tension bars would be a crazy option.
       
    20. mbmapit

      mbmapit
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    21. mb3195

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      If you have a light room with light ceilings, why did you spend so much on a projector?

      Your projector is designed to be used in a dedicated cinema room, all the benefits that it will offer will be completely lost on your setup.

      That being said, a react screen is probably your best solution. And no, don’t get it calibrated until you have the screen you want, it will be pointless as you will have to do it again.
       
    22. dms

      dms
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      Look I don't know the first thing about screens I've never had one! I've always projected onto walls, admittedly with low or mid range projectors. The Mrs wanted the 760 so I wasn't going to say no.

      So I'm very happy with any advice for why I should go for one or the other. I need to know the options before I go to the Mrs to talk about what we can still afford! As far as she's concerned the projector was the budget, not mounting it, calibrating it, getting a screen etc ;-) She loves the image already and doesn't even notice the hole in the wall.


      Each to their own eh? I don't have a dedicated bat cave and yes the walls are white but we're happy with it already. The projector was much cheaper than a new house ;-)

      Interested in what screen type to go for though and why.
       
    23. Vila

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      Even though you say you don't have 'light pollution' at night it sounds like you have white walls and light decor?

      The problem this causes is the light coming off the projector screen 'light's up' the white walls and ceiling. This in turn bounces around the room and robs the image of black level and contrast.

      It does sound like you could certainly benefit from an 'Ambient light rejecting' screen.
      These help keep your image bright but your blacks black by 'rejecting' light that comes onto them from an angle like the ceiling or walls.

      ReAct is the most well known fabric and is used in some screens made by Draper and Euroscreen.

      They're not cheap - but they do seem to be available in any size, shape or format you want - Pull down, borderless, fixed frame, cinemascope... Would certainly be worth looking at.
       
    24. mb3195

      mb3195
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      I’m not criticizing the fact you have such an amazing projector, but you are only probably getting 30% if it’s performance in your environment. Seems a shame to have such a top end unit and not think about how to get the most of it.

      A react screen in your situation is definitely the way to go. But trust me, if you can get some light control in your room, you will start seeing the potential of your projector.

      See the attached link, scroll down to the 15 second video, this shows the benefit of darkening a room, picture quality is x10 brighter from the same projector.

      Epson EH-TW9300, EH-TW7300, EH-LS10000: The Battle! - ProjectionDream.com
       
    25. swiftpete

      swiftpete
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      Definitely don’t listen to this. The border greatly increases the perceived contrast of the image. It’s a almost tricking your eyes but it has a big effect.
       
    26. dms

      dms
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      Ok cheers. The walls are actually "dulux timeless" (white in my books) and yes there is reflection. I'm going to try and persuade my wife to get dark/black curtains on the basis during late afternoon the sun is too strong on that side, and I guess they will help absorb light on that side of the room.

      The furniture is all very dark (leather/black). The floor is very dark wood stained dark. We have no glossy speakers or other items...

      I'm sure there could be worse rooms ;-)

      I am going to see if I can persuade her that painting the walls to the left (a left over from an extension) and right (short wall to doors to outside) could be very dark as "feature walls". Don't rate my chances high!
       
    27. dms

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      Ok, I guess if I get a 16:9 screen I will always have right/left black boundaries and full black boundaries on 16:9 material. Just wouldn't have it on the actual widescreen material.

      A dual screen system just looks like too much to go wrong in my book.
       
    28. Joe Fernand

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      'If a screen price puts us (well her) off it'll be the dulux wall, which is a shame' - I'd fix the hole in the wall, give the 'screen wall' a fresh coat of paint and get on with enjoying your current setup.

      If you don't want to spend on a suitable projection surface the option would be to return the Projector and use the budget for a lower price Projector + Suitable screen - what you have now is never going to get anywhere close to the optimum performance out of the projector, and forgot about calibration (another waste of money going by your current setup).

      Putting the image to the top of the wall sounds more like an Art Gallery than a Cinema System - you want the image where it is comfortable to view, not where it looks great in a photo shoot.

      An edgeless Fixed screen plus a budget projector (collocated with the Sony Projector) may be an option - would allow you to turn the projection surface into digital art when you are not viewing movies on it.

      Some pics of the current setup would be handy.

      Joe
       
    29. dms

      dms
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      Lol

      I haven't said I don't want to buy a screen or spend money on it I've said I haven't a clue which to get. I definitely want a screen of some sort. The Mrs wants it in time for may 4th as she assumes a certain film will be on 4k by then.

      I genuinely don't know the pros and cons of the different options or screen types. The react type may help but has limited field of view.

      From a looks perspective the manual looks best to me. I'm also tempted by a fixed screen with a pull down cover for it. The mrs liked the idea of the electric model though.

      What I'm hoping for is some practical advice so I can talk to the Mrs about it and work out what we do.

      My experience of screens is basically the one my work had installed which is a ceiling recessed 4:3 for an office projector. Install was very neat but the image was no better (well much worse) than my infocus projecting to my wall at the old house.

      Edit.
      Yes ok I should get some pictures up.

      The collocation projector is a sweet idea but it wouldn't work for space requirements and for people walking into the projected light.

      If I can stop the room looking like a tip I'll be happy, art gallery is way off! More seriously it's always annoyed me that when I sit down in my lounge to have a chat or relax I am looking at a blank wall hence the idea of a picture under a screen or over it.
       
      Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
    30. HAWK-EYE

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