Screen for white but dark room (TW9400)

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I have also taken the final decision to go 16:9. Going widescreen could be possible, but then the screen is going to be up to high over the speakers to be a comfortably viewing height.

@kenshingintoki: don't you think the Epson will have enough contrast to do the job when the night and dark hits the room? I have already bought the Epson, but haven't got it in my hands yet.

@Luminated67: I have reached out to Ricky for some pricing and let us see if he can give me a great price on a screen! I know the quality differ from movie to movie, which I also have noticed on my TV. I also intend to get the projector calibrated when everything is going to be installed. Maybe a stupid question, but do the projector have do run xx-hours before doing calibration? And luckily I have the length in the room to put the projector in the correct spot further back then normal.

I must say the pictures on your screen looks absolute amazing - and even though it's a photo taken, it must be even more amazing in real life!

I did also first realize after browsing YouTube a late night that the projector have the "blackening" option. How does it actually work, it is not just forcing the image to be black does it? Isn't it shutting of the pixel some how? Does this function save in the lens memory, so if you are adjusting the picture in for say 2.35:1 and you do some blanking also, this is all going to be saved on the preset you can save for this view?

@DLxP: Thank you, nice to see a setup that I'm looking for and in the environments like what I have! This actually doing the decision much more easy when you can relate to the complete setup!


The end result and the right way to encounter this project have to be ALR 16:9. I now have reached out to Ricky for his screens and I have contacted Draper to hear what the difference is between the Thor and the Loke tab-tensioned screens they have, both with ReAct 3.0. Anyone in here have experience with the one or both the Drapers, which can clarify the difference? The Loke-version for a 122" is just around 2.000€.
Sadly I can't find any dealers in Denmark which have these screen to see them in real life with my own eyes, but with you guys experience and recommendation and DLxP setup, I'm 99% sure this solution is the best!

//Chris



The epson is the best PJ for money it costs.

A grey or ALRs screen doesn't change contrast. it just increased perceived contrast by the lower black floor. like how an oled panel is called infinite contrast ratio due to its pitch black base.
 

3t3p

Active Member
It's funny we say perceived contrast and I know why but actually all we ever see is perceived or subjective so we may as well say an ALR screen does improve contrast IMO hehe.

Flame suit on
 

Rickyj at Kalibrate

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
^Based on your room conditions I concur with the rest that either a Grey or ALR screen is the way to go. I would Pm @Rickyj at Kalibrate and ask about his Diverse Screens, I switched to a fixed frame grey material 2.35:1 and frankly the image I am getting from the switch is astonishing, they do electric drop down as well as fixed in all the materials (white/grey/ALR) as well as doing a multi-aspect electric which is super cool.


This is actually a newer video:


We actually specified this screen with a black 300mm leader on the bar side, so that light overspill was caught when using in a 2.35/2.40 format. These screens, are not cheap, an are heavy, but are available with ALR material too.
 
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Rickyj at Kalibrate

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Part of me really does want to try out a white screen in a treated room though and see which is better. I'd love to have a device which allows for 2 screens.. an ALR and a white screen. I think that would be so freaking cool.

I feel like a white screen in a treated room will be fantastic for 3D whilst the ALR will be good for the daytime and when entertaining guests. How thick is the top part of the screen? (the housing)

As well as the mulitformat screens, we can also do biformat screens. These can be specified with 2 different ratios (if required), and 2 different materials.

They are big, and heavy, but do fit your requirements.

1609758865984.png
 

Rickyj at Kalibrate

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
@DLxP am I correct in thinking that the electric roll down Diverse screen can have different preset drop heights for different aspect ratios?
Depends on the models. The multifomat screens are designed for this, but use a second roller for the masking, so very different to the standard electric/Tab tensioned.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
We recommend 100 hours minimum

With mine Gordon was to come over to do a tour of both north and south of Ireland calibrating systems but just before he was due mine had the flashing light fault and when back to Epson so when it returned I only had 5 days to get the new bulb with enough hours, I meant that I got up in the morning and turned the projector on and set it to watch Sky before I heading into work, ran it solid for about 18hours per day for those 5 days, not quite the full 100 hour but close. I actually think this benefitted the bulb because 2 years in and mostly using ECO I have yet to need to switch to MEDIUM or HIGH due to the a flickering bulb that can happen.

BTW the screen has been superb, so happy with everything about it. :clap:
 

boboc

Standard Member
A grey or ALRs screen doesn't change contrast. it just increased perceived contrast by the lower black floor.

Shouldn’t ALR screens improve real (measurable) contrast in a living room?
I know they do when there is an additional light source but do they help in a fully dark room with white ceiling and light walls? The ALR screens are supposed to reduce the light reflections from the ceiling and the walls. I wonder if they really help with that (in a fully dark room).
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
The same principle applies to a fully dark room as it does to a room with ambient light. The ALR material rejects light from certain angles of incidence, whether that's in a room with some ambient light or a room with the lights off, but with light reflected from surfaces. The only circumstances where that's not useful with lights off is where the room's surfaces are sufficiently dark such that the ALR qualities are unnecessary and the ALR's drawbacks outweigh its benefits. The drawbacks (aside from cost) being 'sparklies' and hotspotting, neither of which I've found to be particularly problematic, as well as a slight loss of colour accuracy vs white screens (which calibration can ameliorate).
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
Although I should note, part of the reason I haven't had any real problems with sparklies and hotspotting is the quality of the material used by Diverse Screens. I suspect many other materials are worse for this.
 

boboc

Standard Member
The same principle applies to a fully dark room as it does to a room with ambient light.

I understand the principle but don't know how much effect that provides. I'm only concerned about dark room conditions, I never watch with ambient lights.

Does anyone had a chance to compare ALR and matt white screens in the same living room (in full darkness)?
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
I understand the principle but don't know how much effect that provides. I'm only concerned about dark room conditions, I never watch with ambient lights.

Does anyone had a chance to compare ALR and matt white screens in the same living room (in full darkness)?

Here’s a video of Carl’s place screen material comparing ALR/Grey/White on one screen.


I took a screen shot

7D46F6E7-8DA3-4C01-B313-A49BBE38DED3.png


The unknown from this video is whether the projector was adjusted to suit either grey or ALR or was it as my guess setup for a white screen, either way it does show that even in a completely dark room with bright walls and ceiling the ALR and Grey offer a contrast improvement and his walls weren’t white they were grey. And it’s something I can confirm from my switch from white to a grey screen.
 

boboc

Standard Member
Here’s a video of Carl’s place screen material comparing ALR/Grey/White on one screen.


I took a screen shot

View attachment 1435218

The unknown from this video is whether the projector was adjusted to suit either grey or ALR or was it as my guess setup for a white screen, either way it does show that even in a completely dark room with bright walls and ceiling the ALR and Grey offer a contrast improvement and his walls weren’t white they were grey. And it’s something I can confirm from my switch from white to a grey screen.

Thank you very much. Very informative video. Judging from it in a dark room the ALR and Grey significantly reduce brightness but do not improve contrast in my opinion.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Thank you very much. Very informative video. Judging from it in a dark room the ALR and Grey significantly reduce brightness but do not improve contrast in my opinion.

The reducing on brightness will be down to the projector being setup for the white screen as that is what I has normally. As for it not improving the contrast I can 100000% guarantee it improves the contrast because I have first hand experience of both a white screen and a grey one. I think until you see both you can’t realise the difference.

Both the ALR and Grey are quite similar in complete darkness in my fully treated room but with spot lights on the ALR sample is significantly better and compared to a white sample it’s night and day better.

I might add the Carl’s place stuff is not premium stuff, you can buy a 120” ALR material to cover a DIY frame for a fraction of the price of the likes of even the Diverse Screen’s equivalent, you get what you pay for.
 

James333

Member
Based on Luminated's amazing photos I'm really keen to buy some of the material for my custom frame and spoke to Ricky in early December, he was super helpful and answered all of my questions but have been trying to contact him to order ever since with a few emails and calls. I wondered if he had a big job finishing before Christmas or something, I know what customer deadlines are like and obviously the Christmas break was needed too! I was wondering if anyone has heard anything back yet as I keep just getting through to the answer machine when I call. I'm hoping to buy asap as I'm currently projecting on to a textured wallpapered wall!
 

Rickyj at Kalibrate

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Based on Luminated's amazing photos I'm really keen to buy some of the material for my custom frame and spoke to Ricky in early December, he was super helpful and answered all of my questions but have been trying to contact him to order ever since with a few emails and calls. I wondered if he had a big job finishing before Christmas or something, I know what customer deadlines are like and obviously the Christmas break was needed too! I was wondering if anyone has heard anything back yet as I keep just getting through to the answer machine when I call. I'm hoping to buy asap as I'm currently projecting on to a textured wallpapered wall!

James, by chance I have just looked at your contact form from yesterday (we had over 1,000 contact forms/spam + direct emails to go through, so have been doing it the last few days). It was very busy in the run up to Christmas. If you get the answerphone, please leave a message, as I will always try and ring back. Some get missed occassionally, or we occasionally get the odd message where messages are not eligible, but we do try to get back asap.

I will get a quote over to you this evening, as starting to get back in control of everything now:)
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Based on Luminated's amazing photos I'm really keen to buy some of the material for my custom frame and spoke to Ricky in early December, he was super helpful and answered all of my questions but have been trying to contact him to order ever since with a few emails and calls. I wondered if he had a big job finishing before Christmas or something, I know what customer deadlines are like and obviously the Christmas break was needed too! I was wondering if anyone has heard anything back yet as I keep just getting through to the answer machine when I call. I'm hoping to buy asap as I'm currently projecting on to a textured wallpapered wall!

Which screen type and material are you going for?

Oh and thanks for your kind remarks, I try and make my photos as true a reflection of what I see on the screen itself. Please do remember mine has been calibrated.:smashin:
 

James333

Member
James, by chance I have just looked at your contact form from yesterday (we had over 1,000 contact forms/spam + direct emails to go through, so have been doing it the last few days). It was very busy in the run up to Christmas. If you get the answerphone, please leave a message, as I will always try and ring back. Some get missed occassionally, or we occasionally get the odd message where messages are not eligible, but we do try to get back asap.

I will get a quote over to you this evening, as starting to get back in control of everything now:)

That's awesome, thank you! I've sent over an email so look forward to hearing back when you get a chance.
 

James333

Member
Which screen type and material are you going for?

Oh and thanks for your kind remarks, I try and make my photos as true a reflection of what I see on the screen itself. Please do remember mine has been calibrated.:smashin:

I'm hoping to go for the Hi Contrast Grey and am hoping that you are going to say that's the one you have (!) as it's no secret, you have your images looking stunning. I may not be able to get my TW9400 calibrated yet but shooting for something close to yours is my aim. From reading the varios threads that contain your photos, it's easy to see you take great pride in your photography too :)
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
I'm hoping to go for the Hi Contrast Grey and am hoping that you are going to say that's the one you have (!) as it's no secret, you have your images looking stunning. I may not be able to get my TW9400 calibrated yet but shooting for something close to yours is my aim. From reading the varios threads that contain your photos, it's easy to see you take great pride in your photography too :)

Mine is the Reference Grey because my room is fully treated with black velour on the walls and ceiling.

Out of the box the Epson is very good but no doubt about it a calibration just makes everything look and gel that bit better.

I do try with the photos, for the most part through trial and error I have a method of capturing the photo that seems to work for me. Look forward to your photos but most of all enjoy the whole experience of watching on the big screen.:smashin:
 

Rickyj at Kalibrate

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AVForums Sponsor

Donnacha

Distinguished Member
I've been in contact with Ricky as well re: getting a new screen. To those that have the ALR material what are your thoughts on it? I had a React 2.1 screen for a little while, albeit with a different projector and I liked it but the viewing angles put me off. Now I sit in the "sweet spot" so not an issue for me, but those sat on the periphery chairs saw a drop off in brightness.

Are the Diverse screens similar in terms of brightness drop off?

As you can see from my room, the ALR screen would be handy in dealing with the white ceiling and lighter coloured walls. The room lights up a lot when bright images are on screen. But with an existing white screen I still love the image it shows, so I'd likely be just as happy with a white screen.

4F44E2D7-1919-4414-A342-D6655E4BFE8C.jpeg
Any thoughts on the ALR material would be really appreciated !

Thanks
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
This is actually a newer video:


We actually specified this screen with a black 300mm leader on the bar side, so that light overspill was caught when using in a 2.35/2.40 format. These screens, are not cheap, an are heavy, but are available with ALR material too.


Oh god that masking feature is too amazing.

My next screen will have to be one of those... damn it...
I'm just stuck in that I want an ALR AND a white screen... Ricky do you have samples of the material available?

how much approximately does a 130'' screen run for? :)

Is there no chance of ever being released a 2 in 1 ALR/White screen combo screen electirc where u pick which one u want to come down?
 

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