Scottish IndyRef2

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 187 50.3%
  • No

    Votes: 185 49.7%

  • Total voters
    372
Personally I've always been an advocate for dropping the voting age to 16. Plenty of mature and responsible 16 year olds about as equally as there are numpties over the age of 18 about; some of whom I wouldn't let near a voting booth to be honest.
Personally, I'd rather see the voting age raised so that people get a bit of life experience first - 65 seems like a sensible age... ;)

The priorities of a 16-year-old living at home with Mum & Dad are a lot different to those of a working couple with two kids and a mortgage. That said, with the way things are going, there's probably a lot of 16-year-olds living at home with Mum & Dad who have two kids...
 
We can agree to disagree then and move on.

My argument isn't just the voting age, it's how and why the SNP have used it. If they just wanted to allow 16-year olds to vote and left it there, it would be palatable, but they used it to try and manipulate a hugely important vote in their favour after influencing children.

That was and is very wrong IMO.

Out if interest are you also against things like boundary changes and filtering money to marginal seats all of which favour the Tories attempting to retain power? All of which seem far more sinister than merely allowing 16 year olds to vote, these are the people we should be encouraging to engage in politics as they’re the ones who need to live with the consequences of our political decisions the longest

 
Out if interest....

Irrelevant. I'm not biting. This is why I stuck you on ignore last time.

We're discussing manipulating children to gain favour in a vote that they were given the right to vote in, purely to try and skew the result. That's despicable behavior.

Regardless of what the Tories did do, didn't do, whether Dave shagged a pig, Maggie stole your milk. It's not about that.
 
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It’s not irrelevant it’s inconvenient for you

You’re complaining of underhand tactics and i’m giving you examples of genuine underhand tactics by the party you are promoting as the alternative to the SNP to govern Scotland

Your problem is not that 16 year olds are voting, your problem is as a unionist and a tory you don’t have a message that even comes close to resonating with anything like a majority of people below retirement age
 
It's whataboutery and one party doing something they shouldn't (The Tories) doesn't mean it's fine for the SNP to do something I find disgusting.

My problem is I don't swallow Sturgeons BS whole. I'm far off retirement myself.

Politically engaging children is fine, manipulating them to skew an election in your favour is not. It's despicable and something I'd expect in a tin-pot dicatorship. Not a free western society.

I won't vote Tory in the next election unless they have a top-down reorganisation and ditch the imbecile they elected as leader but I won't vote SNP either.
 
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Are you not aware of the current COVID-19 situation? I suspect you are but want Scotland to follow the Westminster approach of do too little, too late. No. No. No.
Politicians answer.
Haven't answered the question, appears to have totally missed the point and deflects with the too little, too late comment.
 
Politicians answer.
Haven't answered the question, appears to have totally missed the point and deflects with the too little, too late comment.
Its a politics forum Phil! :D Seriously though, to try and argue urgent and extreme measures to curb a global pandemic is in someway indicative of enduring approaches to equality is really quite bizarre. Infact, the only thing I think it actually proves is how desperate the Unionist cause has become.
 
I'm afraid somehow trying to conflate the pandemic response with voting age is a rather desperate attempt here to discredit the SNP response.

In fact we know full well plenty of adults aren't mature enough to follow the rules either, so perhaps we can also castigate the SNP for not wanting to raise the voting age!
 
Are you not aware of the current COVID-19 situation? I suspect you are but want Scotland to follow the Westminster approach of do too little, too late. No. No. No.
yup, I though this map showed exactly where the problem is, just happens to coincide with the biggest outbreak in Scotland

But no lockdown for Glasgow, eh?

These are adults we're talking about, surely they can do what they want in their free time as long as they abide by the law. If you don't want them going out, shut down all the bars


1601065890000.png


Sturgeon said the other day her preference would be to shut the bars, but wants more money. Why? furlough is good for another 5 weeks, it was fine to hammer the Aberdeen economy in August, but now it's not fine to hammer the Glasgow economy, they would need special treatment (aka loads more money)

The continuing denial on here of the clear bias is baffling
 
I'm afraid somehow trying to conflate the pandemic response with voting age is a rather desperate attempt here to discredit the SNP response.

In fact we know full well plenty of adults aren't mature enough to follow the rules either, so perhaps we can also castigate the SNP for not wanting to raise the voting age!
It was a segway into the evolving crisis in Scottish universities. If your going to criticise the least you can do is quote the post. Clearly touched a nerve with you SNP supporters :)

When a senior law professor starts questioning what's going on then I think it's clear there are serious issues with what's been going on with university policy in Scotland in the last few days

These are adults, they should be subject to the same rules as other adults, if you want to prohibit a behaviour then it should be banned for everyone

Students are 'not delinquents that need to be controlled', according to one of the University of Glasgow's top law professors.

 
yup, I though this map showed exactly where the problem is, just happens to coincide with the biggest outbreak in Scotland
When did Scottish Universities restart vice English ones? The explanation is right there.
 
It was a segway into the evolving crisis in Scottish universities. If your going to criticise the least you can do is quote the post. Clearly touched a nerve with you SNP supporters :)

When a senior law professor starts questioning what's going on then I think it's clear there are serious issues with what's been going on with university policy in Scotland in the last few days

These are adults, they should be subject to the same rules as other adults, if you want to prohibit a behaviour then it should be banned for everyone

Students are 'not delinquents that need to be controlled', according to one of the University of Glasgow's top law professors.



I think the only nerve getting touched is yours Garry, as the bee in your bonnet about the SNP is clearly not going away.

I apologise for not quoting the post though; normally I do but I was just continuing the conversation. Didn't really think it was required.

And I'm not an SNP supporter, but you already know that.
 
Halls of residence are relatively tightly packed and ripe for spreading the contagion. They are also by their nature, easily definable and so locking down a whole building makes complete sense and is likely to be more effective than if the outbreak was in a residential street. There is no reason to think it's got anything to do with their age or that they are being discriminated against, it's just a highly focussed local lock down. Not really got anything to do with being in Scotland either, as I'm sure the same will happen in rUK, if it hasn't already.
 
Halls of residence are relatively tightly packed and ripe for spreading the contagion. They are also by their nature, easily definable and so locking down a whole building makes complete sense and is likely to be more effective than if the outbreak was in a residential street. There is no reason to think it's got anything to do with their age or that they are being discriminated against, it's just a highly focussed local lock down. Not really got anything to do with being in Scotland either, as I'm sure the same will happen in rUK, if it hasn't already.
Locking down a halls would make sense when an outbreak happens

Locking down 300,000 students? is that proportionate?

It appears the wrong twitter link in my earlier post, the gist is they've threated draconian punishment with very vague rules, it's unclear who this captures, I see he joked later that one of his fellow lecturers is technically studying something, so therefore banned from the pub tonight.

Students were getting notices slapped on their doors telling them to quarantine, when asked where they do their washing, they were told use your bath, when they asked about food, they were told order online, 3 day delay to get food, so leave to go get food and get chucked out of uni, or starve for 3 days.

It does now appear after a lot of protests things are improving, i.e. Glasgow uni is now refunding 4 weeks rent and busy helping with food for those locked down.

The implementation of the lockdown is the problem here, not that action might be needed, this is up there with some of the worst UK gov incompetence of the last 6 months.

 
What's the chances of her resigning and disappearing off the face of the earth?
Anyone would have though that Scottish Uni/Schools went back before Englands. It would seam sensible to learn from Scotlands mistakes.
 
Why awkward? it's exactly what I predicted when I said it won't be a Scottish only problem.

It was sarcastic, i agree with you. It’s entirely predictable that the usual suspects are all over a story like this as they feel it gives them an angle to attack the Scot Gov only for the same to happen elsewhere

Exactly the same happened with the exam results, we were first the Scot Tories released the attack dogs only for the English results fiasco to ensue in a similar vein and they’re back under their rocks nowhere to be seen when their own party have questions to answer

Unfortunately were in a position that because of the huge lead the SNP have the opposition parties and the Tories in particular feel like everythings fair game and they are now politicising every aspect of the pandemic. We have the FM briefing being cut short on TV to cut to d ross so he can undermine the health advice it’s bonkers but that’s where we are such is the panic in the establishment
 
Why awkward? it's exactly what I predicted when I said it won't be a Scottish only problem.
It was sarcastic, i agree with you. It’s entirely predictable that the usual suspects are all over a story like this as they feel it gives them an angle to attack the Scot Gov only for the same to happen elsewhere

Exactly the same happened with the exam results, we were first the Scot Tories released the attack dogs only for the English results fiasco to ensue in a similar vein and they’re back under their rocks nowhere to be seen when their own party have questions to answer

Unfortunately were in a position that because of the huge lead the SNP have the opposition parties and the Tories in particular feel like everythings fair game and they are now politicising every aspect of the pandemic. We have the FM briefing being cut short on TV to cut to d ross so he can undermine the health advice it’s bonkers but that’s where we are such is the panic in the establishment
Your comparing apples and oranges.

Locking down halls where a cluster appears is sensible imo, read my last post.

Telling all 300k students in Scotland they can't go on threat of expulsion appears to me to be unreasonable and quite draconian, if you think it's reasonable then explain why.

Have the English students been threated with expulsion?

Hundreds of thousands of students in Scotland banned from socialising

Student union says move disregards mental health and ‘applies different rules from the rest of the adult population’
 
Clearly no point in engaging with you until you calm down.
 

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