Scotland staying in the EU?

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Frankly you are being juvenile.
Should a juvenile decide how a country is run?
 
D

Deleted member 13294

Guest
You can't make any point without trolling, absolute clown
What are you, 12???? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Irony.

The graph has nothing to do with voice it's a representation of who sets the laws for my country under the 3 scenarios
And as I've already explained, it's wrong.

Most of the 153 areas where the EU has powers are returning to Scotland on day 1 of brexit. So the middle graph was wrong as I've pointed out three times now.

It is only a few of the 153 that Westminster will hold temporarily until a UK framework can be agreed.

Regardless of our size if we were independant we'd have more sway in the EU that we have in the UK when it comes to matters like we find ourselves at the moment, look at Ireland fully supported on the issue of Brexit by the EU where as Scotlands wishes and opinions totally ignored in the 'union of equals'
How do you have more sway in the EU?

The UK has around 8% of votes when it comes to QMV. Scotland will have less than 1%.

In the UK parliament you have around 10%.

And you might think it's trolling, but it's still true that Scotland is a full participant in the Westminster parliament where it is over-represented. And in a referendum only 5 years ago Scotland confirmed it was happy to continue doing so.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
I don't think a 100 mile long border would be a particularly great challenge. For the avoidance of doubt, I don't think it would need to be Fort Knox, merely something like this augmented with sensors and cameras:


Think of all the jobs it would create in both southern Scotland and Northern England. And if it meant Scotland could stay aligned with the EU it would be worth spoiling the scenic views of the border.


Well, you never know :)
I'm not sure whether you are joking or being serious. That is not required to have a border in NI, why would you actually want something like that between Scotland and England?

Quick question is that what you and others had in mind when people say that a border is inevitable between ROI and NI?
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Look up The Troubles in Northern Ireland.
It still goes on.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Then you don't understand it.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Then you don't understand it.
I don't understand your question at all. I was asking a genuine question about a visual regarding a border as one was put up depicting a fence and barbed wire. I was surprised about that as there is no need for such a fence, and exactly for the reason, you are highlighting I wouldn't and have never recommended such a border.

I was merely asking that when I or order speak it is inevitable to have a border whether that is what they visualise?
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Because the Troubles are still there and no matter what happens, one side (or both) will use it as an excuse for violence.
Yet another pipe bomb was used to try and kill a police officer recently - several attempts have been made this year.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Because the Troubles are still there and no matter what happens, one side (or both) will use it as an excuse for violence.
Yet another pipe bomb was used to try and kill a police officer recently - several attempts have been made this year.
I'm a sorry dude but you are taking this very much the wrong direction, not that it is incorrect, but it is irrelevant to my very simple question. And most importantly not answering the question, and also taking it even further offtopic.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
It is on topic as it would be a side effect of a border.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
It is on topic as it would be a side effect of a border.
Yet that wasn't the question...

I'm not sure whether you are joking or being serious. That is not required to have a border in NI, why would you actually want something like that between Scotland and England?

Quick question is that what you and others had in mind when people say that a border is inevitable between ROI and NI?
'that' referring to a tall fence with barbed wire on top...
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Some good news for the nationalists:
Brexit 'has changed EU view of Scotland'
Why is that good news? Are we reading the same article? Beyond some interfering sabre rattling he is not saying anything new. No preferential arrangement, rules need to be followed. So why wouldn’t an independent country be allowed to apply for membership?

I’m sure I’ve missed it, but what is the good news in that?
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Politik speak, completely noncommittal.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Why is that good news? Are we reading the same article? Beyond some interfering sabre rattling he is not saying anything new. No preferential arrangement, rules need to be followed. So why wouldn’t an independent country be allowed to apply for membership?

I’m sure I’ve missed it, but what is the good news in that?
"Some interfering sabre rattling"? Oh dear. I think it is a quite a shift in tone from their previous stance and quite welcome IMHO. Clearly the path towards Scottish membership of the EU is going to be long and difficult but, with the possible failure of the UK state, one that might well have to be trodden.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
"Some interfering sabre rattling"? Oh dear. I think it is a quite a shift in tone from their previous stance and quite welcome IMHO. Clearly the path towards Scottish membership of the EU is going to be long and difficult but, with the possible failure of the UK state, one that might well have to be trodden.
When has the EU ever said no to a country wanting to apply to become a member? As long as you follow the rules and meet the criteria you can join.

So I ask again what is actually the good news bit? What is news and what is good about it?
 

Cliff

Distinguished Member
The EUs stance was if Scotland was still a region of the UK it couldn’t join on its own terms. After Brexit, Nicola only managed to have coffee (details murky) with EU representatives as Scotland was deemed to be part of the UK.
If it became an independent country, then the EU would be open to a membership application.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
I can read fine thank you.

Is the SNP campaigning for Scotland to leave the UK? Yes. So why should they fight to keep the rest of the UK in the EU? Why should they be allowed to? Immoral, unjustifiable behaviour.

I was going to leave another reply but don't want to get banned forever.
Perhaps because they are representing the wishes of their constituents who want to remain in the EU....

Every constituency area (SNP or otherwise) in Scotland majority voted to remain in the EU. Even Moray with a Conservative MP voted 50.1% remain. The same, with a bigger remain percentage, was also true for the other Conservative MP areas. While the primary aim of the SNP is Scottish independence, they are not a single issue party. And at the moment there is no 2nd Independence Referendum agreed to. There may never be.

Replied here rather than the Brexit forum as
The Scotland Thread is a few threads below this one :lesson:
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Thanks, only now this thread is above the Brexit one :D
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
Now if the SNP can prove that the Scottish public want a second independence reforendum that can pass through Westminster I have no problem .

I would though have a problem if SNP and Labour make a deal behind the scene to support VONC with a Labour promise for support from the SNP for Labour support a 2nd indyref . Any such a deal as this is a conflict of interests for me .
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Now if the SNP can prove that the Scottish public want a second independence reforendum that can pass through Westminster I have no problem .

I would though have a problem if SNP and Labour make a deal behind the scene to support VONC with a Labour promise for support from the SNP for Labour support a 2nd indyref . Any such a deal as this is a conflict of interests for me .
On Radio 4 today, the SNP's Blackford said that no policies would be attached to the VONC. The SNP hopes to win most Westminster seats in Scotland and will use that as a mandate for a new referendum after the General Election.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
On Radio 4 today, the SNP's Blackford said that no policies would be attached to the VONC. The SNP hopes to win most Westminster seats in Scotland and will use that as a mandate for a new referendum after the General Election.
Whilst I would hope this to be the case , call me sceptical as the UK leaving the EU is best possible outcome for the SNP for Scottish independence. Whilst they can't right up say this we know it's the case , as such to back JC now as a means for no deal gives me a reason to pause that a deal has been struck between Labour / SNP on their independence.

Now we must remember that SNP want and will push for independence whether we leave or remain in the EU.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Believe me, having lived in Scotland all these decades, I am always skeptical about the SNP :) However, independence will be a much easier sell if we are still in the EU given the continuity arguments. It was a really big part of the No! campaign last time and, alongside the currency arguments, was probably the major reason the Yes! side lost in 2014.
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Brexit does seem to be enough of a material change for Scotland to legitimately hold another referendum on independence.

If such a referendum resulted in Scotland leaving the UK and later Scotland deciding to join the EU then I wish them all the best.

I don't really see why someone in the rest of the UK (England, Wales or Ireland) would have a problem with Scotland leaving the UK and then joining the EU if there was an electoral mandate from the Scots to do so.
 
D

Deleted member 13294

Guest
I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Ditto for Wales and NI.

Just heard the leader of Plaid Cymru on the radio claiming that there will be a Welsh independence referendum by 2030.

And a quote something like "We can live as a European country or die as a British backwater".

No mention how they will fund their huge budget deficit.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Hey, we will be better off.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
I don't really see why someone in the rest of the UK (England, Wales or Ireland) would have a problem with Scotland leaving the UK and then joining the EU if there was an electoral mandate from the Scots to do so.
No problem at all - 59 less remain MP's in the HOC.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
No problem at all - 59 less remain MP's in the HOC.
13 less leave MPs in the HOC and the current government 'majority' down to around -35 (or less). Are you forgetting there are 13 Conservative MPs in the HOC who represent seats in Scotland....
 

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