Scotland staying in the EU?

raduv1

Distinguished Member

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
Only a small proportion of our laws are made by the EU whereas the majority are currently set in Westminster. When we are independent every power that is currently reserved to WM comes to Edinburgh
How about fishing that the SNP have been complaining about?
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
Ours i would say

Many don't fully agree with everything the SNP believes in but see them as a means to an end ie independence. Once we get that we can create, vote in, vote out any party we want the whole point is a Scottish party based in Scotland making decisions for those who live in Scotland
Why don't you have the same thinking about the UK and EU?
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member

mcbainne

Active Member
With the powers of our Parliament under threat, today is a crucial day in the history of devolution — Scottish National Party

They don't think Westminster should control fishing temporarily until a UK wide framework can be set up.

But they are fine with the even more remote Brussels having full control permanently.
Fishings going to be be interesting as they voted overwhelmingly for Brexit, they more than any in my opinion have a totally unrealistic view of having control of our waters but i think they'll be sold out in any trade negotiations. That's when the fireworks will start
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
Your middle graph is wrong.

And the SNP explanation on this is simply bizarre.

What is the Scottish EU Continuity Bill? — Scottish National Party
Some EU powers – like support for farmers, control of our seas or food standards – fall within areas that have been the responsibility of Holyrood since 1999. The UK Withdrawal Bill makes a grab for these powers, returning them to Westminster not Holyrood.

And it stops MSPs passing laws in some existing devolved areas, allowing UK Ministers to make changes in these areas without any Scottish Parliament involvement.

That means that if the UK government’s price for a trade deal with the United States is a reduction in environmental standards, accepting chlorinated chicken imports, or even opening up our NHS to privatisation, the Scottish Parliament could have no say at all.


Where to start with the twisted logic here?

First of all, Scotland does not have these powers now. How is it a grab for these powers if Westminster gets them rather than Brussels? These aren't powers that Scotland has or will ever get in the EU.

Then of course this is a temporary arrangement until a UK wide framework can be set up. Which is perfectly reasonable as until we know what level of alignment we have with the EU it's impossible to do this now.

If Scotland had these powers without a UK wide framework and diverged from the UK then potentially we would need food safety checks at the Scottish border.

And the main point - Scotland is a fully participating part of Westminster with over representation for the size of their population.

Also worth adding that if you think Scotland has little say in Westminster, wait till you are one of the smallest members of the EU. How did Greece get on being a small member with little influence?
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
So is the right graph.
Scotland will have less of a voice in the EU than the UK simply because it wouldn't have as much influence.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
So is the right graph.
Scotland will have less of a voice in the EU than the UK simply because it wouldn't have as much influence.
It's not the right graph.

Most of the 153 powers that Brussels holds will be going to Scotland directly. A small number such as fishing will be at Westminster temporarily.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
If Scotland had these powers without a UK wide framework and diverged from the UK then potentially we would need food safety checks at the Scottish border.
If Northern Ireland is going to get its own settlement, effectively crating a border in the Irish Sea, I don't see why the same can't also be done for Scotland. In many ways an English-Scottish border could be quite useful to prevent English livestock being passed off as Scottish (which carries a premium price) and, if independence is likely in the future, starts to lay the physical groundwork for it.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
If Northern Ireland is going to get its own settlement, effectively crating a border in the Irish Sea, I don't see why the same can't also be done for Scotland. In many ways an English-Scottish border could be quite useful to prevent English livestock being passed off as Scottish (which carries a premium price) and, if independence is likely in the future, starts to lay the physical groundwork for it.
Laughable. Not worth my time.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
@Rasczak
So where would that border be?
The England/Scotland border is over one hundred miles long.
Also you make it sound like the border reivers could make a comeback :D
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
@Rasczak
So where would that border be? The England/Scotland border is over one hundred miles long.
I don't think a 100 mile long border would be a particularly great challenge. For the avoidance of doubt, I don't think it would need to be Fort Knox, merely something like this augmented with sensors and cameras:


Think of all the jobs it would create in both southern Scotland and Northern England. And if it meant Scotland could stay aligned with the EU it would be worth spoiling the scenic views of the border.

Also you make it sound like the border reivers could make a comeback :D
Well, you never know :)
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
I think @Rasczak might even believe this too.

Amazing.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
I don't think a 100 mile long border would be a particularly great challenge. For the avoidance of doubt, I don't think it would need to be Fort Knox, merely something like this augmented with sensors and cameras:

Think of all the jobs it would create in both southern Scotland and Northern England. And if it meant Scotland could stay aligned with the EU it would be worth spoiling the scenic views of the border.
The Scotland/England border wall seen in Doomsday might be better...;)

greg-staples-the-wall.jpg image-asset.jpeg

That one was to stop people getting out of Scotland.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Because many of us believe our interests are better served as an independent country looking after our own affairs based on our own priorities instead of having governments forced upon us who we never vote for
As others have said: isn't that exactly why many in the UK want to leave the EU?
 
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raduv1

Distinguished Member
As others have said: isn't that exactly why many in the UK want to leave the EU?
Yup , good luck on that mate as my own question on that front never had a response.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
As others have said: isn't that exactly why many in the UK want to leave the EU?
Does the UK in the EU have a specific set of areas equivalent to reserved matters in Scotland? i.e. where only Brussels and not Westminister has the authority? And where the UK does not have a veto?
Reserved and excepted matters - Wikipedia

And can Brussels remove the powers of Westminister at any time it likes? which Westminister can do to Holyrood.
 

Squiffy

Distinguished Member
Does the UK in the EU have a specific set of areas equivalent to reserved matters in Scotland? i.e. where only Brussels and not Westminister has the authority? And where the UK does not have a veto?
Yes.

Voting in the Council of the European Union - Wikipedia

Of course the key difference is that Scotland had a referendum on whether they were happy to remain in the UK, and that result was respected.
 

mcbainne

Active Member
So is the right graph.
Scotland will have less of a voice in the EU than the UK simply because it wouldn't have as much influence.
The graph has nothing to do with voice it's a representation of who sets the laws for my country under the 3 scenarios

Regardless of our size if we were independant we'd have more sway in the EU that we have in the UK when it comes to matters like we find ourselves at the moment, look at Ireland fully supported on the issue of Brexit by the EU where as Scotlands wishes and opinions totally ignored in the 'union of equals'
 

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