SCM12's - recommend a sub?

Studmuffin

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Hi there

Can anyone recommend a decent active sub that would make love with my ATC SCM12's?

I know ATC do a beast of a sub, but my wallet wouldn't stretch to anything like that.

Anything under a grand that would do the job? Well under a grand would be even better:thumbsup: £500 would be much more comfy!

Thanks in advance!
 
Hi there

Can anyone recommend a decent active sub that would make love with my ATC SCM12's?

I know ATC do a beast of a sub, but my wallet wouldn't stretch to anything like that.

Anything under a grand that would do the job? Well under a grand would be even better:thumbsup: £500 would be much more comfy!

Thanks in advance!

Hi Studmuffin and welcome to the forums,

In a Word, well Two words, well alright two letters and a Word ...

BK Monolith ....

" The New and Awesome Monolith Subwoofer 300W RMS (600W Peak) 12" Ported Reflex - £421.20 " a bit less than that £500 and includes various
'extras ' ....

"Accessories
The XLS200 MK2 comes complete with the following "FREE" accessories
Spikes 8mm Mains Lead 5M High Level Lead 5M Phono to Phono Worth £4.00 Worth £29.95 Worth £10.00 " .....



Monolith


BK are probably the most frequently recommended subs on the forums but they are sold over the Internet and so are hard to Audition unless you are lucky enough to have an amiable BK Monolith owner living near at hand ... or at Ear. :devil:


Arnold.
 
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You could also look at the REL T series or even one of the lower B series (towards the top of your budget). Not sure of the prices but SVS are well regarded on here.
The BK subs are very popular on here and do offer good value for money but may be worth listening to a couple of different subs to see if you prefer the sound from one.
Could be worth posting this question in the sub forum as you will get even more responses (to warn you that you will get a lot of people pushing BKs which although they are good they are not the only manufacturer out there).
 
Hi Studmuffin and welcome to the forums,

In a Word, well Two words, well alright two letters and a Word ...

BK Monolith ....

" The New and Awesome Monolith Subwoofer 300W RMS (600W Peak) 12" Ported Reflex - £421.20 " a bit less than that £500 and includes various
'extras ' ....

"Accessories
The XLS200 MK2 comes complete with the following "FREE" accessories
Spikes 8mm Mains Lead 5M High Level Lead 5M Phono to Phono Worth £4.00 Worth £29.95 Worth £10.00 " .....



Monolith


BK are probably the most frequently recommended subs on the forums but they are sold over the Internet and so are hard to Audition unless you are lucky enough to have an amiable BK Monolith owner living near at hand ... or at Ear. :devil:


Arnold.

+1:D Nothing will touch it for the money you want to spend. Check the subwoofer forums, all will be revealed!:devil:
 
Hi there

Can anyone recommend a decent active sub that would make love with my ATC SCM12's?

I know ATC do a beast of a sub, but my wallet wouldn't stretch to anything like that.

Anything under a grand that would do the job? Well under a grand would be even better:thumbsup: £500 would be much more comfy!

Thanks in advance!
I'd take a look at the BK XXLS-400 at £400.

I paired one up (via the high level inputs) with a pair of Living Voice Avatar OBXs last night and even having had one in my system for a few weeks, I was very pleasantly surprised how well it blended with and extended the whole systems performance.

Russell
 
Thanks everyone so far. Obviously a bit of a newbie here so I didn't spot the dedicated sub forum.

Thanks for all the input :)
 
Studmuffin,

To help in your quest,I'll move you to the Subwoofer forum.

K.
 
Some further info:

It's your typical 10 x 12 bedromm that this sub will have to sit in, so quite a small room.

Also, it's not so much the super lows that I'm interested in, but I need a smooth accurate response in the upper bass region above all.
 
you will get a lot of people pushing BKs which although they are good they are not the only manufacturer out there.

That is quite right but the huge advantage that BK have over subwoofers sold through traditional retail channels is that they offer superb value for money as the retailer's margin doesn't have to be factored in.

A £400 Monolith would probably end up costing double if it wasn't sold direct to customer by the manufacturer
 
That is quite right but the huge advantage that BK have over subwoofers sold through traditional retail channels is that they offer superb value for money as the retailer's margin doesn't have to be factored in.

A £400 Monolith would probably end up costing double if it wasn't sold direct to customer by the manufacturer

The downside to this is that unless you live near the manufacturer it is very hard (if not impossible) to get a demo. Hence you have to buy 'blind'.
 
The SVS's also suffer from having a single UK supplier so are hard to demo unless you live in Kent, so it's a similar problem with them.

That's why you pay a premium for a retail sub, you are supposed to be getting a good chunks worth of service from your retailer, which should at least include a showroom demo if not a home one.

The REL's should be easier to demo, Studmuffin, so by all means do so if you get a chance. BK and SVS owners who live nearby often offer people a listen, so don't be afraid to ask.

The last thing anyone would want is for you to buy blind and be dissappointed, and if this restricts you to buying retail only then so be it. Don't let people put you off SVS or BK though, it's your decision to make ;)

Dave
 
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Thanks for the kind info everyone.

Do any of the subs mentioned have a more musical quality than the others? I'm not using this on a home cinema.
 
RELs are known for being musical subs. The BK range are based heavily on the REL subs so they should be pretty good as well. Sure I saw a thread on here about the surprising musical ability of the Monolith (a quick search in this section should throw it up). Also I think the XLS 300 is based on the REL T series so this should be pretty good with music too.
 
There is a review on the hardware review pages for the BK XXLS400 (as recommended above, by the reviewer himself - no less :)) which is apparently very good for music.

As mentioned above BK (who you might not have heard of) have been around for a while and have produced subs in the past sold under other names (they used to make them for REL for one I believe, maybe they still do)

They have a reasonable range of sizes and performances at very good prices IF you are happy to buy without a demo. Whether or not you are is entirely up to you.
 
Got my BK Monolith on order - at long last. Should be here in a week or so. A quick question re setting it up with my SCM 12's:

Well, any tips really?

Does it have a crossover so I can relieve the SCM 12's of some of the upper bass duty?

Is it worth getting the Anti Mode device they sell? I'm a bit wary of this, since my thinking is that room modes cannot be entirely fixed by EQ can they? Surely an unwelcome room resonance is a time based issue as well as frequency based?

Thanks in advance
 
Does it have a crossover so I can relieve the SCM 12's of some of the upper bass duty?
No you can't. Not unless your amplifier offers the facility of such bass management.

Is it worth getting the Anti Mode device they sell?
That would depend on whether the combination of room and subwoofer would need it and this can only be confirmed by measurement. FWIW, part of my reasoning for suggesting the XXLS-400 was the likelyhood of your small(ish) room giving strong room gain below your lowest room mode which will be about 32Hz. With the sealed box this will manifest in flat response below this point leaving only the area between 32Hz and your chosen crossover (50Hz ish I would guess) to sort out with a bit of positional tuning. Not really a big ask. The naturally flat response of the Monolith by comparison could be boosted beyond flat into giving ever increasing amounts of bass low down, potentially requiring plugging the port as a minimum, or EQ as a worst case.
I'm a bit wary of this, since my thinking is that room modes cannot be entirely fixed by EQ can they? Surely an unwelcome room resonance is a time based issue as well as frequency?
Yes and no. You can't cure the rooms problems with EQ, but you can effect a flat (in the frequency domain) and short (in the time domain) response at your preferred listening position with EQ.

If you look at the first two graphs in the first post of this utterly fascinating thread, the SMS-1 EQ device has been used to flatten the response (at least below 50Hz - I ran out of filters) in the frequency domain and as a result has reduced the length of the audible ringing. The decay time hasn't been shortened as the decay gradient hasn't altered, but as the sound is starting from less of an SPL peak, it takes less time to decay into the nominal noise floor at about 45dB (SPL).

It stands to reason, that if you EQ every single frequency possible at the listening position, then you'll likely make the response worse elsewhere in the room. That's why treatment is superior; It benefits the entire listening room, it's just that EQ is a lot less visually offensive in the average living room.

Russell
 
Russell

Thanks for all the wisdom! I can see that the XXLS-400 will be much better for music in a small room. I've changed the order with BK and gone to the back of their queue again!

No you can't. Not unless your amplifier offers the facility of such bass management.

That would depend on whether the combination of room and subwoofer would need it and this can only be confirmed by measurement. FWIW, part of my reasoning for suggesting the XXLS-400 was the likelyhood of your small(ish) room giving strong room gain below your lowest room mode which will be about 32Hz. With the sealed box this will manifest in flat response below this point leaving only the area between 32Hz and your chosen crossover (50Hz ish I would guess) to sort out with a bit of positional tuning. Not really a big ask. The naturally flat response of the Monolith by comparison could be boosted beyond flat into giving ever increasing amounts of bass low down, potentially requiring plugging the port as a minimum, or EQ as a worst case.
Yes and no. You can't cure the rooms problems with EQ, but you can effect a flat (in the frequency domain) and short (in the time domain) response at your preferred listening position with EQ.

If you look at the first two graphs in the first post of this utterly fascinating thread, the SMS-1 EQ device has been used to flatten the response (at least below 50Hz - I ran out of filters) in the frequency domain and as a result has reduced the length of the audible ringing. The decay time hasn't been shortened as the decay gradient hasn't altered, but as the sound is starting from less of an SPL peak, it takes less time to decay into the nominal noise floor at about 45dB (SPL).

It stands to reason, that if you EQ every single frequency possible at the listening position, then you'll likely make the response worse elsewhere in the room. That's why treatment is superior; It benefits the entire listening room, it's just that EQ is a lot less visually offensive in the average living room.

Russell
 

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