Scaler for SD Plasma.. Is it beneficial ?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Matt Horne, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    Ok... so just having joined the plasma brigade.. and enjoying my PW8 I have been playing quite a bit of Hi-def movies through the panel from a DVHS player.

    Though its scaled down by the screen the pciture quality is very impressive.

    Now not having ever looked at scalers of any description.. would a scaler improve the picture of my Panny even though its a SD panel.

    Currently I feed Sky/DVD and DVHS through the component module of the panel.

    So what benefits would there be to having a scaler in the chain ? And which of the many scalers would do the job in this situation. Is there a more entry level product which would do the job well for a SD panel ? (I'm not after suggestions for the latest/greatest 5k scaler etc etc :D )

    Cheers

    Matt
     
  2. Madders

    Madders
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    Hi Matt,
    The short answer is...yes it would be beneficial :)

    I used to have the 6 series Panny (852x480 res) and used a HD Leeza with it (not really rated in this country due to initial poor PAL quality - although this has been rectified for quite some time now with firmware updates - I'm actually still kicking myself that I sold it :( ) The pictures were spectacular compared to the on board scaling. I used to run my modded Sky+ box SDI input into the scaler then via either DVI or component to the Panny and got DVD quality images with most of the Sky channels (not including a few low bit rate channels - although these still looked better than "standard".)
     
  3. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    Cool... so what should I start to look for..which of the older/more entry level products are suitable ? Don't want to spend thousands thats for sure :)

    Cheers

    Matt
     
  4. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    The other option is to swap the PW8 for an HD8, a scaler is going to cost you around £799 as a starting point.
    The PHD8 can be had for around £1650 and I would think you could get £850 for your PW8???

    This would be my first move.
     
  5. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    Erm not a option.. had the plasma all of 2 weeks :)

    Which scalers are at the £800 level then ?
     
  6. Madders

    Madders
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    I would suggest either that new Lumagen HDQ coming out, or the Lumagen HDP. I haven't seen the Iscans so can't comment on those. Not too sure of the cost of the 2 lumagens though - around £1500 I think. Otherwise the Crystalio1 would fit the bill, which seems to be selling from £695-£1100!! So I guess it's how lucky you are!!
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  8. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Matt Horne

    The Lumagen VisionDVI is likely to be your best option - the VisionHDP and HDQ are both over 1K.

    The most viable alternative to the VisionDVI is the DVDO iScanHD+ - though if you already have Digital Audio switching covered the Lumagen with its latest Firmware updates is definitely the better 'Video' option.

    In 'standard' trim the VisionDVI offers you Digital out on DVI or Analogue out on DVI with a suitable DVI>VGA adapter - otherwise you can add BNC Out for an additional 80.00 GBP.

    If you have the DVI Board in your Display you can connect to the Display DVI>DVI and set the Lumagen to process everything to 720P at 50Hz or 60Hz.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  9. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    whats the retail price on the VisionDVI ?

    Thanks

    Matt
     
  10. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    DVi is around £700 IIRC but older analogue Lumagens and Iscan HD (not the newer HD+) can be bought S/H for £3-400 IMO with an SD panel especially panny 6 series anIscan HD for £400 is well worth a play.........check classifieds regularly
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The DVI actually has an SRP of £825......it was on special promo in June 05 for around £700........

    Gordon
     
  12. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Matt

    UK SRP on a standard configuration VisionDVI is £825.00 and you can have the optional SDI Input Board for +£200.00 and or Analogue BNC Output Board for +£80.00.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  13. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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  14. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    No get a scaler that do something with your HD 1080i signal, it will make all the difference even on a SD panel.
     
  15. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    thata what I'm after something to handle the 1080i signal as well.. I guess this is quite a new feature and hence the older scalers will be no good ?

    Though its kinda depressing to look at shelling out more than the screen cost itself to improve the picture!
     
  16. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    a Lumagen Dvi is the cheapest option you may be lucky and get one secondhand from someone upgrading to a VP30/HDP etc you may get one ex-demo Gordon may know of dealer looking to off load a demo unit
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Like I said...Lumagen Vision DVI...SRP£825 probably get an ex demo one on a deal...and it will dp per pixel motion adaptive de-interlacing on 1080i material via DVI/HDMI or component.

    Gordon
     
  18. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    Gordon,

    That was what I initially assumed it did, but after reading some posts by Jim Peterson , I get the impression that is not necesarily the case. I'm not 100 % clear, but with the latest release it sounds like per-frame motion adaptive.

    Could you clarify?

    Cheers, Nick
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Nick,

    It's been doing per pixel motion adaptive for a while. The difference is that now, in the release of software from a day or so ago, it now does bob on motion areas and weave on static. IE it ADAPTS it's methods of processing based on where it sees motion in pixels.....at least that is my understanding

    Gordon
     
  20. gondes

    gondes
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    Hi,
    Having read the WHF last month, there's a facility in Yamaha RXV2600 that can accept whatever the input signal (composite, S-Video, component, or DVI-HDMI), it can output HDMI signal to the panel + 7.1 audio. Is it a video scaler too ? I'm considering to buy RXV2600, and if it is a video scaler, it would be a great benefit (but even it is not I still will buy somehow, people recommend it as it's a very good receiver somewhere in the forums).
    Thanks..
     
  21. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    yes in as much it is very similar to the electronics in every panel display (LCD / Plsma etc) or projector, it however bears little relationship in quality and facilities to what is being discussed in this thread. Chalk and cheese. It is quite possible to buy three scalers nowdays, one in the DVD player, one in the amp and one in the display. You only need one, the best one.
     
  22. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello gondes

    As Nic says the Yamaha AV Receiver is capable of cross converting analogue and digital video signals to a unified 'preferred' output signal - this is a convenience feature only and is not comparable what you can achieve with a programmable external Video Processor.

    If at some later date you plan to introduce an external Video Processor try to ensure you get the 'raw' source signals into the Video Processor with as few interventions as possible - you can use an AV Receiver to pre switch signals if you have more 'same type' signals than you have inputs on the AV Receiver but you would avoid any cross conversion in the AV Receiver as its likely to mess up the signal.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  23. gondes

    gondes
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    Nic & Joe,

    Thanks for the explanation. That describes the Lumagen's price..... :)
     
  24. Upgrade King

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    Question to Gordon or one of the many other respected members please.

    I own the pw6 series and as i take it from this thread and many others the Lumagen dvi will benefit me greatly.
    Which connection does it use to connect to the plasma? is it a dvi because i will need to buy a dvi board if so.

    Being a novice with scalers will i need it calabrating by an expert?
     
  25. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I use a PWD6 as my main day to day tv. I use it with either a Lumagen Vision DVI or an HDP Pro dependant on what I have available. I believe it offers an obvious improvement in image quality.

    Does it need expertly calibrated No.
    Does it need to be correctly installed to bring the greatest benefit? Yes
    Can you install it yourself after reading the set up guides online? Yes if you are willing to take the time to follow the procedures
    Will my dealer pre-configure it for my display? Yes I'd hope they would, making it easier for you to complete.

    I use both analogue and digital to my PWD6. I'd say that if you have no HDCP sources at present then go analogue and save yourself the money of a DVI board.

    Gordon
     
  26. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    So in may case I have the following :

    PWD8 plasma
    Sky/DVD/DVHS all on component switiched vis the lexicon.

    For a Vision DVI I guess I would need either the BNC version for analog output to the panel or a DVI card for the plasma and then a dvi cable between the scaler/panel.

    For future hdmi sources I presume I would just use a hdmi - dvi cable to the scaler without issues ?

    Matt
     
  27. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Matt Horne

    Probably best to get the RGB Out from the SKY box straight into the Lumagen using a SCART>4RCA cable.

    For Analogue connectivity between the Lumagen and the Display you have a couple of options:

    01. DVI-I Out (using a DVI-I to VGA adapter) to VGA In on the Display - using a VGA>VGA cable.

    02. RGBHV (using the optional Lumagen BNC Out Board) to the optional BNC Input Board in the Display - using a 5BNC>5BNC cable.

    For Digital connectivity between the Lumagen and the Display you have a couple of options:

    01. DVI-D to DVI-D using the Optional DVI Input Board in the Display - using a DVI>DVI cable.

    02. DVI-D to HDMI using the Optional HDMI Input Board in the Display - using a DVI>HDMI cable.

    The DVI and HDMI Boards for the Display are both HDCP compliant.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  28. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    Cheers.. whats the benefit of using the RGB output from the skybox over my using a JSvideo conversion box to component ?

    Is there any advantage to using either the HDMI or DVI board in the plasma ?

    Thanks

    Matt
     
  29. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Matt

    Inputs 03 + 05 are configured for RGB+Composite sync and its better/cleaner to get the non converted RGB feed into the Lumagen and avoid any pre processing in the RGB2YUV converter.

    The DVI and HDMI Boards are pretty much interchangeable - the HDMI Board takes a bit more 'configuration' and is 'potentially' compatible with 'newer' HDMI chip sets; though so far I've found pretty much identical results with either board.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS The DVI Board price includes a 3m DVI>DVI cable!
     
  30. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    Thanks again.... nice to know about the DVI board having a cable thrown in :)
     

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