Hi everyone,this is my first post.at present am considering buying an upscaler for my new pioneer 436xde.will it improve picture on sky plus? I would appreciate any advice you may have
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:There are a few folk on here who use scalers with their devices. I saw a chap with 506XDE and a VP30 from DVDo yesterday and I myself have a clients who are members of this forum who have Lumagen Vision DVI and HDP's series units with XDE's and they swear by them. Look for posts by SHarger, Damo in Sale etc...
kblundy said:Hi Guy's great thread. I have a new 506XDE and was wondering about getting it Cal'd and then getting a scaler. Is the Scaler discussed here the Lumagen Vision HDP or the Pro version?
I live in the NE (Darlington Area - any thoughts on people that can cal my display) and possibilities of a demo of a scaler?? Is the DVDO VP30 as good as the Lumagen??
Any help would be appreciated.
I know most processors use a coprocessors, I had heard that lumagen uses a modified version of the Sil504 for deinterlacing.
They may have high quality de-interlacing now, but how does it compare with the newer processors? Even if they do have programmability it does not mean that they have sufficient performance available to implement the newer algorithms. The impression I got from Gordons site was that the HDQ is just a repackaged HDP, but hey I could easily be wrong, as could anyone else with the same info!
JohnWH said:However, the reality is that there is a wave of new scalers ariving in a similar price bracket to the lumagen products (well maybe a bit more expensive), and anyone buying an HDP or HDQ now would daft not to compare with the newer scalers as the technology in them is, in theory at least, significantly better.
JohnWH said:Nick, I don't entirely agree with your comment about the SiL or Faroudja chips not being important, the capabilities of the processor dictate an envelope within which you have to work, they place a cap on what can be acheived, yes there is a lot of tweaking that can be done but it has its limits.
JohnWH said:Right now my expectation is that the new processors will exceed the performance of Lumagens current products in many respects, simply due to the improvements in underlying algorithms, this however doesn't mean they'll exceed their performance in every respect.
Yes I read the AVS thread on the NEC, not good. As for the vantage manual, yes I've also looked at that, not great, but personally I'll judge a product like this on its image quality not on its manual.Nic Rhodes said:the NEC is well documented at AVS The Vantage, well 002 and 001 appear to be here, I have read the manual, NOT IMPRESSED. It is not well done. The company doesn't seem to have grasped the domestic AV market requirements at all.
The vantage has sufficient connectivity for me, as I suspect it would do for a lot others here, particularily with HDMI expansion. They have mentioned a pro model with more connectivity and features, but who knows when that'll materialise.Forgeting the software issue, just the inputs and outputs would eliminate it for me immediately. Others no doubt others will be happy with HD15 and no BNCs and limited conectivity.
The CrystalioII looks like a well put together product. Do you really need the pro? HD SDI isn't useful to most (Edit: ahh, I see you have a DTheather set up), the timebase correction is nice (if it really works on the audio) but not essential, and the HDD recorder feature seems like a gimmick. I'd save 1K and get the non pro model.I will have a look closer though when they REALLY start to shipas I have a cunning plan . The Crystallio 11 looks great, the manual is CLASS, compare that to the Vantage and it chalk and cheese. This will worry Lumagen but it is not shipping yet, so it is pure speculation still but it looks like a great processor. The pro I like is £4k give or take change (a bit less in reality), so I can get more than 2 Lumagen best for this money, so not really comparable.
Yep specs and brochures mean nothing that is why I said I intend to demo. The vantage is here now (I haven't seen a UK price yet) and reports appear to be quite positive where it matters i.e. image quality. As you say time will tell on the SW quality. Yes Lumagen is here now, but personally I'm not going to spend £1.5K at this point in time given what I know about the undelying technology, at least not without some level of comparison.As a dedicated fan in this area who looks at this stuff asap, well in reality it is not here yet and brochure specs mean NOTHING. Price comparable to Lumagens?, no, not really at this stage. Significantly better?, just don't buy this at this stage, they are not here and will probaly need serious development in firmware yet. Time will tell if they exploit their potential. Lumgaen has AND is here NOW.
What I said stands, the implementation can't exceed the capabilities offerd by the HW its based on.Never said it wasn't important at all. If you read what I said it was that it is HOW it is implemented that IS important. Crap Faroudja or good Faroudja?, they are both based on 23xx chips. There are plenty of examples of both. You never make good food out of poor ingredients but it is what you do with the good ingredients that matters.
Err, I think you'll be surprised.As most of these processor are not shipping yet is still theoretical. No one denies their potential capabilities but I think they will be a while achieving them.
Yes they have, by a significant degree.Current implementations of these 'super chips' have not advanced the SOTA.
I certainly agree that SW reliability may be an issue.No other processor has done quality/ relaibity on launch, I see no difference for these will be any different especially with new chips.
Incorrect, the gennum VXD is hard wired, the Silicon Optics is programmable, the later is more expensive than the former for a good reason, however its worth pointing out that programmbility can also only go as far as the underlying processing power allows.Don't forget these new super chips are basically VERY powerful lumps of silicon but the smart bit is the algorithms they run, ie the software. Previous chips were more hard wired and look what needed to get the best out of them re firmware.
Hmm, I'd suggest that the HDQ is a perfect example of how concerned Lumagen are.They are however pitched at generally 2x the price as the current Lumagens so I don't really see them as competion anyway. I doubt Lumagen does either as it will release it new processor pretty shortly as well to compete.
Yep, a few good head to head comparisons are definitley needed, I'm quite capable of doing this comparison myself but getting the kit on home trial at the same time will never happen.Of all these new processor only the Crystallio 11 temps me but Lumagen will take that head on in next few months so I prefer to wait for real results. We need to get guys who know their stuff practically to have a look at them.
I'm not bigging up anything, I'm just suggesting that to buy now might be unwise unless you're really desperate or have money burning a hole in your pocket (which I seem to having bought a Ruby a month befor ethe price dropped by 1K who'd be an early adopter... ahh)The results will only come with practice and bigging all these new processor up pre launch is not really helping. We have many a disappointment previosly from un fulfilled promises.
Absolutley!anyway isn't this OT?
AlanMci said:Hi everyone,this is my first post.at present am considering buying an upscaler for my new pioneer 436xde.will it improve picture on sky plus? I would appreciate any advice you may have
Nic Rhodes said:re HD DSI, been playing with this a work for the last 2 years and have three DTheatre decks here, waiting.....