Scaler for my kit, or not?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by rhubarbe, May 7, 2007.

  1. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    I have a Marantz DV7600 (outputs 1080p though HDMI); a Dreambox DM7025 (outputs RGB scart, though I can set it to output 576i YUV out of scart to 3 x RCA); a SkyHD box (which needs no introduction); and soon to get a new TViX M4100SH (1080p out of HDMI)

    So, I have three HDMI sources and one YUV. When the new Dreambox DM8000 (1080i/p dunno yet, out of HDMI) is introduced I'll get one of those and sell the 7025, then I'll have four HDMI sources. But my TV only has two HDMI inputs.

    Given that my current LCDTV is only 32", and that the source we watch most (90%) is the SKYHD (and on SD channels really), is it worth buying something like the IScan VP50 to scale the SD sources and act as an HDMI switch?

    Thanks
     
  2. Timbo21

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    I don't know what your LCD is, but I would say a VP50 is perhaps overkill for a 32" LCD.

    I have a Lumagen HDQ, which I use for my projector. I finally got it working properly with my Philips 32" LCD (timing issue), and it does look great with Sky SD & HD, but not worth spending that kind of money for just the TV IMO.

    I would just get an HDMI switch box for around £120

    T.
     
  3. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    Yes, but all of our friends hate us, so now we just sit home and watch TV....

    It does a good job of Sky, does it?

    Enable the wife to see the tennis balls against the clay on Sky Sports Extra (I won't ask for Eurosport as life has taught me that optimism works best when it has bounds)?

    I might upgrade the TV in future, you see. :devil:
     
  4. Timbo21

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    I think the longer I have the Lumagen, the more I feel I can't do without it.

    I watch tennis on Sky Sports, and I don't think I can see the ball any clearer with the Lumagen tho, lol.

    It does seem a lot of LCD's out there don't deinterlace 1080i properly, and what they actually do is take one set of 540 lines & just double them up to make the 1080, so it's basically 540 upscaled; and then I guess scaled to the TV's native resolution. I've heard Sony's do this, allegedly. A decent VP will obviously address this, but yours maybe okay.

    The Lumagen is very good on Sky HD. I don't know how it compares to the VP50 though. There's pros & cons of both.

    T.
     
  5. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    Th biggest pro for me of the VP50 is that it fits in my rack. The Lumagens won't.
     
  6. choddo2006

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    I'd spend the money on a better TV first.
     
  7. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    I do like lateral thinking. Better TV? Hadn't thought of that.

    OK, assume I have just bought a 42" LCD TV.

    Now, what do you all think?
     
  8. Timbo21

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    Definately

    Have you thought of plasma, or are you definately set on LCD?

    Ideally you would want a TV that you can bypass the TV's own scaling to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping, and that's not common, especially with LCD AFAIK. I think people like Liam @ progressive-av know which TV's will be suited to an external VP.

    Just to let you know, the Lumagen HDQ is, I believe, the same dimensions as the VP50: basically a standard 1U box, with standard width etc.

    T.
     
  9. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    Is it? I'd better go and read about that one then. Don't you just hate snooker?
     
  10. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    Those Lumagens are all DVI input, not HDMI. OK, I know that they are interchangeable but think of all those extra digital audio leads I'll need....
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  12. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    Oh yes, and I have loads of hdmi leads, but no DVI leads at all. Besides, if my devices are hdmi 1.1 (I am not saying that they are definitely) I would be able to reduce the veritable forest of cables that my wife loves so much.
     
  13. choddo2006

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    Always a worthy goal :)

    If you had a 42" LCD/plasma that supported pixel matching, I'd say a scaler's definitely worth a look. How do you find the M4100 by the way? I'm tempted but waiting for the next one for h.264 support from what I've heard?
     
  14. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    It's the h.264 one I have on order, winging it's way toward me from Huntington beach, CA as we speak. :D $305.

    Nice 500GB T166 HDD waiting.
     
  15. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    @ Gordon. I have read your "Why do I need a scaler?" page. Do I need a scaler with my kit?
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    HDMI to DVI just requires an adaptor that would be around £5-£10.

    Do you need a scaler? Well only if you want increased video performance and the most accurate playback of the source signals.

    As it says in the article a good scaler may do more than scaler. With yoru sources you are best sending the SD signals direct to a video processor to allow it to do the de-interlacing and scaling. For the HD sources you would probably be best to send them in their native res to a video processor as well. I would expect that a VP50 or HDQ will be better at de-interlacing 1080i to 1080p than anything in the stand alone players. Having read the specs of the TVmedia player device it only outputs up to 1080i...not 1080p anyway.

    The VP50 has ability to reverse the de-interlacing on the SD channels in the SkyHD box and the Lumagen has abaility to Force 576i from HDMI out of SkyHD box. Both will be suprior to the de-interlacing that SkyHD box does itself. The Lumagen has a pile of other tricks up its sleeve that can help calibration of the entire display chain. You may or may not find this worthwile of course.

    I would think that an off board processor will probably be worthwhile in your situation. I think when you get all your kit you need to try and see one to work it out for yourself though.

    Gordon
     
  17. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    Thanks Gordon

    Interstingly, this page:

    http://www.digitalconnection.com/

    has the big 1080p tick logo by the TVIX HD M-4100SH but if you click on the product are go to its page and read its spec it does indeed say 1920 x 1080i. Smacked legs, I should say.

    I will do as you say: get all the kit together and then take a view on it.
     
  18. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    Aha, I know where you've ordered that from. Let us know how you get on - have we got a thread for this on here?
     
  19. RGOB

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    my lumagen is the best item i have bought alongside my av32r
     
  20. Packetfront

    Packetfront
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    I had both the Lumagen VisionHDP and the Iscan VP50 and now the Crystalio VPS-2300 and the Crystalio is the best item i ever bought, it's SD performance is great compared to the previous processors i had.
     
  21. rhubarbe

    rhubarbe
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    Isn't one of those overkill for a 32" display?

    I mean, my DVD player upscales to beyond the resolution of my current TV, and for films I want to keep I can store them on the TViX. SD things like Celebrity Dog Training Big Vote Rip-Off frankly I don't care if I can't see the spots on their faces (celebs or dogs).
     
  22. Timbo21

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    rhubarbe,

    I really wouldn't get a £1500 processsor for a 32" TV. Above all else I think getting a bigger screen would be my first step. Because after that you will really start to see proper improvements in pq quality for your money. I always say there is no point spending £500 on a DVD player when pairing it with a 32", unless it's for audio reasons. It's just overkill for that size screen. By all means get a scaler, but it's always hard to quantify how much an improvement is worth in £'s. To some it may be worth the money. To others it's not. But I would get something like a 50" screen before you start spending £500+ on a scaler.

    T.
     
  23. rhubarbe

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    Yebut, nobut, if one's desire is for a larger screen and yet this needs to be a joint decision, and if one gets 40" + screen and feeds it with Sky SD one's parner isn't going to be very impressed. Conversely, if one buys the scaler first......
     
  24. simonoaks

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    I am getting a 50" plasma, and want to connect HD DVD, BD (maybe PS3 instead) and Sky HD.

    I was thinking of getting the HDQ, but, what impact will the fact it doesn't have HDMI connections have ? I was thinking 3 HDMI inputs (as above) and one HDMI output to TV ?

    Does this mean the VP50 is better for my purpose (I will be watching mainly sport, sky programmes and films (particularly my collection of SD DVDs).

    Any other processors come recommended ?

    cheers
     
  25. NonPayingMember

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    HDMI and DVI both use the same signal for video. HDMI just adds audio.

    Lumagen will outperform the VP50 on SD DVD without much hassle.
     
  26. Welwynnick

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    Bit of a generalisation, that.

    PaulWilliam just replaced his Lumagen ProHDP with my VantageHD, and found it much better.

    Nick
     
  27. NonPayingMember

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    No, it's an exact statement. SD DVD better on Lumagen than on VP50.

    VantageHD was not part of the question, nor were we talking generally better on all sources. We were talking specifically SD DVD movies where we get Lumagens leading 2:2 cadence detection, and best in class upscaling. Personally I would not find the Vantage better than the Lumagen either in this regard specifically. However the Vantage does carry inside it some of the best video deinterlacing I have ever seen
     
  28. rhubarbe

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    I find all this very confusing. I have a solution, though. Take off my specs before watching the TV and now I don't notice what the picture looks like. :devil:

    EDIT: TVIX HD M-4100SH held up at East Midlands airport. :( No doubt UPS will leave the Duty Meter running all weekend like they did last time.
     
  29. Timbo21

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    Well, you obviously want one. So it's just a matter of choosing which one :D
     
  30. Welwynnick

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    Sorry, I should read the post first. I just saw "SD" and didn't read the "DVD" bit (assumes DVDs are films of course).

    Nick
     

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