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SCALER AV192- specs.

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by jbm007, Jun 16, 2004.

  1. jbm007

    jbm007
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    Uddo

    Do you have the specs for the av192 scaler. I am trying to make sure it will work with a Sony Qualia 004 projector and I want to discuss with the Sony techs.
     
  2. Joelc

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    Here goes nothing.. the only way to make sure it will work would be to try it.

    That said, I do understand that the VSM2048 works with just about every porjector PROVIDED the projectors internal scaler is bypassable. This is not always the case with Sony and needs to be confirmed. This also should not be an issue with the DVI/HDMI input but testing is the only way to be certain.

    Why do I say this...I am one of the few people who ran into problems... I believe problem relates to the generation of the DVI port on my RPTV which was not compatable with the scaler.

    Hope that helps.

    Joel
     
  3. fheller

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    Hi
    This Sony provides 1080p/24fps. Does the scaler understand this format?
    In the US they say only the new Lumagen can handle it!

    kind regards
    fheller
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Teranex also will take in 1080i60 or 480i/60 and stick out 1080/24FPS from film source material. Does cost a bit more though........... :)

    Gordon
     
  5. GrahamMG

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    Hiya.
    I don't think the VSM does anything with a 1080i input signal (on the HDTV "d" type) , the PSM does turn it into 1080p though......
     
  6. Stevesky

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    Hi Chaps,

    If you have the progressive scan option card for the VSM then the VS2048 will handle 1080i on any analog input as it is digitised and converted to progressive scan complements of the VSM's scaling core chip. To cut out the DAC->ADC->DAC stuff going on it's best to use the DVI/HDMI input if possible otherwise some of the benefits of a high def signal start to be lost.

    The PSM will handle 480i(NTSC) and 576i(PAL), the RGB+ board is used to detect the incoming signal type by line count and then the software routes the video to the board that handles it best. If the video signal cannot be handled (for example you don't have the prog scan option card) then it will route it through directly to the analogue video outputs praying that your display can handle it!

    In regards to compatibility the AV192R has some quite comprohensive status screens built in. If you press shift(10) + Eject a screen will pop up that will say in realtime what the system is doing including details of what's going on with the TX and RX HDMI links.

    Due to the minimalist implementations of HDMI inputs on some consumer kit to cut down costs and testing requirements it is well worth finding a dealer who can plug the two together to ensure all is ok. If the display only supports a few resolution/timings then there could be problems or defeat the purpose of an external scaler in the first place.
     
  7. jbm007

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    I have the PSM and scaler.

    My questions pertain to the output.

    Will the scaler handshake properly with the scaler. I don't think the Sony will accept 1080p at this point. The Sony will accept 1080/24fps which I believe is 1080i at the projectors native resolution which is 1920 x 1080.

    I am alson concerned about neg. or positive voltage problems that have come up for some equipment.

    Kind of hard to return a 30k projector after you took it out of the box.
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    It's actually the original 24 film frames sent out interlaced at 48Hz. Isn't the VSM limited to outputting at same rate as incoming signal, in which case this wont be possible.

    Gordon
     
  9. fheller

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    Hi
    I consider to upgrade my projector. I own a Benq 8700 and have a fully equipped 192 ( no radio). I had to look quite some time for the right DVI cable.
    Then I had a demo installed Barco 3 chipper(110). We had to find a new DVI connection cable, because the old one didnt work with the Barco ( except PAL). We used an optical cable and then it was fine.
    Looks like you have to test each projector before buying, otherwise you are in danger of running into the same problems as Joel.
    Now I consider buying a 9" CRT. Does anybody have some feedback on VSM 2048 and CRT??

    kind regards
    fheller
     
  10. Stevesky

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    The VSM is framelocked to the input rate so it will send out either 50Hz(PAL) or 60Hz(NTSC) progressive signals. I've tried looking around the web for info but Sony don't seem to be given much away spec wise, BUT if it can only handle 1080i 60Hz max on the input side then it isn't going to work, and imho rather poor for a projector of that cost.

    The VSM will use VESA timings for it's output on non-HDTV resolutions. On HDTV resolutions you will get DTV timings (eg. running at 720p) if you declare the framelock mode as Panel/Crt.

    I think you need to worm out of Sony what progressive scan resolutions does the 004 support and at what refresh rates.
     
  11. GrahamMG

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    Hi Steve.
    That little gem was lost on me, I didn't realise that the VSM did de-interlacing with certian inputs......Learn something new every day mate.....I'm curious as to all the other button presses that bring up these little golden nuggets, anyon care to list them..? I'd really love to know the one for the DVD32R that allows SACD playback :rotfl:
     
  12. roversd1

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    The VSM2048 with the optional analog HDTV input will digitise any incoming analog HDTV sources (480p/ 720p/ 1080i).

    Whilst in the digital domain the VSM2048 can then scale up to 4096 by 2048 (please be aware that the output of the VSM2048 will always be deinterlaced).

    Hope this helps.
     
  13. GrahamMG

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    Hiya RoverSD1.

    Simple question then, 1080i input via either DVI or RGBHV, what does the VSM ouput on either DVI or RGBHV, I personally think it looked like 1080p not 4096 x 2048, mind you finding something to test it on isn't that easy.....unless we get a Cine9:-( Actually even that won't go to 2048.....
     
  14. Joelc

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    Can you please explain this to me as I thought that the VSM 2048 only output progressive signals (where your post indicates that it only and always outputs an interlaced signal). This makes no sense to me... why would one ever want to use such a device with a DLP/LCD/plasma as this would then require the VSM 2048 output to be converted from interlaced to progressive.

    Please explain....

    Joel
     
  15. roversd1

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    Hi Joel

    Please re-read my post as I stated the VSM2048 only outputs deinterlaced
     
  16. Joelc

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    Roversd1:

    Thanks for the clarifiation...have to get the eyes working better in the morning.

    Cheers,

    Joel
     
  17. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Hiya Rover SD1.
    "you can lead them to water but you can't make them drink" mate..... :rotfl:
     
  18. jbm007

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    Udo

    Did you read my first post.

    Looking for published technical specs for the scaler.

    Do you know if they still exist. Do you have a copy?

    Can you put me in contact with someone.

    I just wamt to make sure the Sony Qualia 004 will sync up with the projector with no problems.

    Jim
     
  19. Dr Udo Zucker

    Dr Udo Zucker
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    Hi Jim, I looked through the drafts of articles I wrote in the past about the VSM2048, but I couldn't detect anything which could assist you in verifying a projector for use with the VSM2048. In actual fact, I believe the issue is more to find a suitable projector specification than that of the VSM2048.

    The VSM2048 outputs as RGBHV or DVI 1.0 (with HDCP if input is HDCP) all video resolutions up to about 2000 lines and, if I remember correctly, about 4000 horizontal pixels. In addition, please note, the VSM2048 frame rate is equal the input rate, i.e. 50Hz at PAL and 60Hz at NTSC. So the issue is, will the Sony Qualia 004 work with these signals? Are you after an analog feed, then I would be surprised if it wouldn't work. Should you be after a digital feed, then you should test the product combination as many projectors are expecting a PC video format which isn't 50Hz or 60Hz.

    I hope this is a little of help, although it doesn't answer your direct request.
     
  20. jbm007

    jbm007
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    UDO

    Per the Sony 004 spec.

    Compatible signal inputs
    15 khz video, DTV (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i)

    Computer signals (H 19-72 khz : fv 48-92hz)

    Imput jack DVI -D


    I will be using this input.
     
  21. Dr Udo Zucker

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    Unfortunately, based on this rather incomplete spec 9not your fault, I know) the DVI input could work OR not work, as the input frequency is omitted. As mentioned before, PCs do not usually use 50Hz [sometimes 60Hz though] it might not work. I would recommend a test before purchasing. Sorry, once more, for being unable to help.
     
  22. Yps

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    Another question about the scaler, as I see, the VSM will deinterlace all signals, even HDTV signals (1080i) to 1080p. I think the Sil504 chip only deinterlace PAL and NTSC signals, not HDTV signals. What chip does it use to deinterlace HDTV signals ?
    Is it done in the PSM or VSM module ?

    Best Regards, Magnus.
     
  23. Plump

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    Magnus,
    it surely can't (motion adoptive) deinterlace 1080i , it is simple line doubling case here.

    Kastrup
     
  24. GrahamMG

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    I think you will find that the 1080i signal is de-interlaced within the scaler chipset not the PSM.......having stared at this particular issue for some time now (before Christmas) trying to work out what is going on I'm more or less convinced that the VSM does de-interlace the 1080i signal but doesn't scale it in the true sense of the word unlike all the other input signals. In one test 720p actually looked better using the same source file (downloaded demo's from Microsoft in both 720p and 1080i).......
    Mind you to be fair to the VSM your only ever going to notice this if your display is capable of showing more than 1080 lines anyway and the screen is going to have to be pretty big (and I mean big) to see the gaps between the lines......I personally prefer not to chase the "numbers" game as it costs far more money than you get in improved PQ.......
     
  25. Dr Udo Zucker

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    Hi all, the VSM2048 handles 1080i without using the PSM192. Its the scaler chip which deinterlaces 1080i using a weave with a blending filter to help smooth over motion artefacts. It looks good (to me at least) in practice, but theoretically motion adaptive de-interlacing can produce even better results. The deinterlaced output can then be scaled, I scale it in my set-up to 1440 lines, bearing in mind that I only have a few D-Theater DVHS HDTV sources here.
     
  26. GrahamMG

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    Hi Udo.
    I'm curious, I assume you are using your Cine9 for this? If so why did you pick 1440 lines for the 1080p output? I'm still not at all sure that a 1080i input is actually scaled like all the other inputs (480, 576, 720), is the VSM actually adding lines to the 1080 signal or is it "stretching" the content to fit a 1440 line output as I'm convinced I can see the gaps on a 1080i input but a 720p looks better.....Of course it can be down to all sorts of things including the source file creation, different displays and if they also do anything to the picture but I've sat and looked at this for over 6 months now and still can't get my head round what I'm seeing.......
     
  27. Dr Udo Zucker

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    Hi Graham, yes I am using the Cine 9. It's converged for 1440 lines for NTSC and 1920 for PAL, that's the simple reason I used 1440 when watching the D-Theater tapes [I only have about 10, so not a lot of watching].

    The reason, so I believe, 1080i looks worse than 720p, is that interlacing artefacts are to your [and definitely my eye] more detracting than number of lines.
     
  28. GrahamMG

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    Hi Udo.
    Ah, you might have a point regarding de-interlacing.....the whole matter here is about to get rather more complicated when I connect up the HTPC I've been playing with to the DVI (and RGBHV) input on the AV192R and play the HD files straight from the PC, there are so many settings to bugger up I may be at it for some time......I am really trying to get the best out of the HD source material and then see what it makes of DVD and compare the VSM to the straight output of the HTPC.......And before anyone asks, neither solution is exactly cheap.....Such is the pursuit of greatness......
     
  29. Matt192

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    As a video novice, when faced with the raft of veriables avaliable to one when setting up an image, the chances of getting it right are small. :suicide:
    To my mind the VSM setup has attempted to simplify things but somehow has oversimplified it, well to me anyway.

    I would like to see how everyone has set their VSM up if possible. I will start by posting my settings below but in the meantime if anyone elso can contribute it may shed some light on what I am doing wrong. My main problem is getting 4:3 sattelite to look right. 16:9 DVD is fine so to mess with the VSM could throw everything else out. :confused:

    It would also be helpful if your display model and type were known.
     
  30. Dr Udo Zucker

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    Hi Matt, unfortunately I couldn't see your settings. Have they been omitted? And could you kindly explore what problems you have with 4:3 satellite?

     

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