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Sanyo Z4 Tweak Thread

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by ROne, Oct 15, 2005.

  1. ROne

    ROne
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    Rather than people have to trudge through the thread (for the lazy buggers!). I'm going to constantly update this first post as my current favourite settings:

    So check regular for updates, I will of course keep abreast of other tweak discoveries as we move through the thread in the normal way and people are completely free to contribute.

    D65 LIVING Settings 08/11/05

    Just in time for that halloween movie!

    Unfiltered

    Contrast Ratio 1350:1

    Preset: LIVING

    B: -3
    C: +6
    Sat: +2 *(See colour management)
    Tint: 0

    Set your own of the above unless you are on HDMI then they should be close if you have same hardware as myself.

    Color temp: Low1
    R: +10
    G: -1
    B: -8
    Sharpness: -6
    Lamp: A1 (for bright image, doesn't effect black level)
    Gamma: -1
    Lens Iris: -40 (you will need dark room)

    Lamp Iris: AUTO
    Auto Black Stretch: off
    Contrast Enhancement: off
    Transient: Off (DOUBLE CHECK, MAIN CAUSE OF EE!)

    Gain R: +2
    Gain G: +3
    Gain BA: -5
    Offset: R -15
    Offset: G -13
    Offset: B -6
    Gamma R,G,B 0,0,0

    HDMI: L2 for pc levels using VMR, re-calibrate brightness for L1 (video levels and overlay output)

    +ves Everything above IRE 40 now D65 without lumps and bumps. Gamma tracking spot on 2.23

    -ves still a bit noisy, colour balance gives weird readings below IRE 40, looking into this ...

    *On top of all of this you will need to adjust the colour using colour management feature as the saturation is too orange.

    COLOUR MANAGEMENT ADJUSTMENT: All you need to do is load up a good screen with a close-up face on it that looks too orange-red, a nice clear outdoor shot. Select the colour management tool from the menu, the screen will freeze - then a target will appear - pick an area of the flesh tone depress the okay button you will then get a further menu which allows you to adjust the colour of that particular tone. I would suggest you change the colour level a couple of notches and you will sea the skin tone come back to a natural level.

    Have a mess with it - don't forget to store it within your preset. It also allows you to AB it. It works great!

    You can then set overall saturation as you require.

    You can also use this tool to fix colour decoder imbalances.
    _________________________________________________

    Manual Iris, Lamp Iris and Lamp modes:

    You will find that you need to experiment with these settings to get the best combination of black level and light output with regard to your room characteristics and you personal preference.

    For instance in a dark film with no ambient light level its best to close the manual iris right down to -63 and turn on the adaptive lamp mode A1. This gives the best contrast and best black level. The downside is a bit more fan noise in bright scenes.

    A good compromise though is to set the lamp mode to LOW and select a manual iris of about -40 to -30, this way you will get a reasonable black level and contrast without the fan noise.

    Be aware if you open the iris up too much black will turn to a blue/green fog, this is panel leakage and should be avoided.

    In some cases it will look like the black level is too LOW (I kid you not!) when using the lowest settings if you have anything but a dark room, in this case have play with the iris settings until you are happy. Maybe a tweak of gamma between (-1 and +1) will help also.
     
  2. paul_mowbray

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    He He, thats more like it!
     
  3. ROne

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    Girlfriend's out tonight... So an unusual Sat night with just me and the Z4.
     
  4. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    ROne, excuse the naive question but isn't it possible simply to switch the dynamic-iris feature off and have done with it? Or have Sanyo not provided a straightforward on/off function?

    Bert
    www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  5. paul_mowbray

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    How did last night go without the miss'es then ROne, did the Z4 get all the love and attention it deserve's!?

    I noticed on your AVS posts that you reside in Notts, i'm from Mansfield (please don't hold that against me!) originally and now living in Leicester and wondered if you knew of any places that demo projectors like the Z4 and 900 in the midlands, most specialsit shops only seem to stock DLP.

    Sorry for clogging up the tweak thread but I really want to order my 1st projector, this £1300 is burning a hole in my pocket!!
     
  6. ShortNick

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    ROne,

    bit of a rhetorical question but I'm currently running a Z1 and am keen to upgrade. I presume the difference between the Z1 and Z4 is quite apparent and worth the money :confused: . Or would I be better off trying to find a Z3, or even a Panasonic? Thanks in anticipation.
     
  7. gingerone

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    Good luck trying to get hold of a Z3. As far as I am aware you can't get them anywhere!
     
  8. ROne

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    Well two things:

    a) you will be left with a contrast ratio of 575:1

    b) in that case I will have may Z3 back and save £500.
     
  9. ROne

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    Get a Z3 as cheap as you can, it's a big leap from a Z1. Get the filters from sainthalo.

    Presto you've got a Z3.5!

    Don't know about the panasonics.

    Last night was fairly productive ...

    I don't know of any decent demo places around here.

    I used sevenoaks at notts once but they usually don't have HTPC set-ups and I'm an advocate of using HTPCs for projectors to see what it can do.

    Well two things:

    a) you will be left with a contrast ratio of 575:1

    b) in that case I will have may Z3 back and save £500.
     
  10. ROne

    ROne
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    Guys I don't want to be the thread bully but it would be great if we can keep this one clear-ish for tweaks otherwise it may get confusing.

    Feel free to PM if you want specific answers that aren't tweak related.

    Cheers.
     
  11. squibbly

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    ROne

    cine4home got 1800:1 CR at D65 out of the Z4 IIRC. That was without filters. Worth checking their tweak thread when it's posted.

    Squibbly
     
  12. ROne

    ROne
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    I saw that, and it's grating me, cos they said they did it with Pure Cinema mode. Pure cinema doesn't even use the auto Iris by default! Which means it clocks at about 500:1 with Iris off and 1000:1 with Iris on.

    Only idea I have had is maybe they are using adaptive lamp as well. I've generally performed all my tweaking in low lamp mode, and it's a fact A1,A2 lamp modes give you about 250:1 extra contrast on Z3 maybe it's more for 4.
     
  13. ROne

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    Last night I did some contrast measurements all in low lamp (A1,A2 lamp buys you 100-250 more Crs!)

    The three useable presets: All with lamp iris on. (Note lamp iris is pretty much undetectable in these modes)

    Creative Cinema: 1050:1

    Pure Cinema: 1100:1 (with lamp iris on AUTO, it defaults to closed yielding 500:1)

    Living: 1300:1 (though the gamma seems wacky)

    Pure Cinema looks the most accurate to me. I will get the spyder out tonight.

    I really have not a clue how cine4home got 1800:1. Even though that Ekke chap from AVS confirmed he'd got 1800:1 with Pure Cinema, I looked at the review and it did say 1100:1, maybe he got mixed up?

    I just can't see how I can up the contrast without clipping anything (without filter).
     
  14. squibbly

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    ROne

    Just re-read the cine4home review. It may not be Pure Cinema that they got 1800:1 in. If the translation is correct, then it says:

    "Notes: - with deactivated iris screen the maximum contrast values amount to 1800:1 (dynamics) and/or 1100:1 (pure Cinema). "

    A bit ambiguous, but is there a mode that sound like it could be 'Dynamics'?

    I was ready to buy the Z4 this week, but for your posts. Tell me the picture is better than the Z3, and that most of your disappointment is down to it being not as significant a leap as you'd hoped for! I need an LCD projector.

    Squibbly
     
  15. thechicco

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    Ditto squibbly.
     
  16. ROne

    ROne
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    There is a dynamic picture preset, it's very bright, used with iris it suffers too much ramp down of iris - I wouldn't use it.

    The picture is better than the Z3 out of the box. It's just not a substantial upgrade from the Z3 once the 3 has been tweaked.
     
  17. ROne

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    Last night I set up 3 picture presets based on the most accurate (not the most contrast) picture.

    Using Pure Cinema, Creative Cinema and Natural, all with Auto Iris on. Manual Iris set to -63.

    I watched the most god-awful film (Constantine) to test for black detail and stuff.

    There was no outright winner - Pure Cinema seems to the give the best shadow detail (gamma looks to be good), Creative Cinema very similar maybe a bit brighter. Natural similar to Pure.

    The CRs of all three came in between 1050:1 and 1200:1 depending on where I'd got the contrast.

    ANSI contrast is good, black level only average.

    I still could see the operation of the iris in these modes but it is much less objectionable than the Powerful, Dynamic and Vivid mode. But I could still see it. I am incredibly sensitive to this Iris though (I am used to watching for exposure movement in my job using camera equipment).

    Overall I'm still not enamoured by the Z4, and I still maintain a well calibrated Z3 is not far behind and would go as far as saying black level is a little better.

    I feel I am running out of things to tweak and the HDMI input is still nagging me, certain sharpness setting influence certain colour combinations in different ways, so for instance -3 maybe good for desktop but then not so good for a black background and white text. Not a huge problem, but completely unnecessary considering the Z3s pure HDMI input.

    One tiny but ultimately useless tweak (because of the trade-off) is if increase gamma (That is boost the intensity ramp) and use the Powerful modes for greatest contrast, this seems to trick the iris into thinking the floor is brighter than it is so it reacts a lot less but is still visible. And you end up with bumpy gamma! So not that usefull really.

    If I could find a way to get the Z3 back without losing money - I would.
     
  18. rdundas

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    But how long did it take you to tweak the Z3. You have only had your new baby about 2 days. Sounds to me like you maybe need a wee rest from tweaking. Try enjoying some fims for the sake of them, then start again. It is always disheartening when you tweak something to perfection, then it goes and you have to start again. I am still hopefull. Out of the box it is marginally better in some areas than the Z3 you had to add filters to and take yonks(that means ages in case it is a scottish only term :) to get right. I bet the Z4 has a long way to go when you get in the mood for it. Fingers crossed anyway :lease:
     
  19. ROne

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    Well Yeah I take your point.

    But I am using the Years knowledge on the Z4, I have a head start.

    Thing is, the films I have been watching recently have led me to be that bored of them, I've been forced into being more interested by the art of tweaking projectors. That and the new spyder toy (which I daren't get out for the 4 yet!).

    Thing is I absolutely refuse to mince my words over stuff, I get so disappointed by the quality of things not living up to expectation (OT take a look at this for instance rimage mare - a £2500 DVD duplicator for work, our third version!) that I think people should know the information so they can make there own mind up.

    Plus are there anygood movies at the moment! Everytime I watch one i get bored, and let's face it the classics have been done to death. Best film recently was Sideways. C'est tout!

    Perhaps others on here with Z4s have something to say about the 4 that could be useful. Come on we don't bite.
     
  20. paul_mowbray

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    That Dumb Ass DVD duplicator video is hillarious! Obvioulsy not because it doesn't work but it pretty much sum's up somebodies life who works with hi-end technology and computer software day in day out. I feel your pain dude and wish everything did what it said on the tin!

    I have never owned a projector myself but deal with them at work and push pixels around for a living so I know i'm gonna be pretty critical of anything put infront of me.

    I want a projector so, so bad but can't decide whether to go with the Z4 or the 900 I think i'm going to have to demo them both. I feel a trip to london coming on. ROne, do you have any experience with the Pansonics?

    I guess as long as the Z4 is as good as the Z3 I will be happy (have seen them in action and think they rock) becasue I can't accomadate a Z3 in my room cos of the throw, the question is if the Z4 is better than the 900!? argh!
     
  21. ROne

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    I did read one review over on AVS that suggested the AE900 was barely better than the AE700 - so there is some sort of pattern ... this would put the 900 in the Z4 ballpark.
     
  22. Neil in Bristol

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    Don't want to take this off-topic, but I'm struggling to find any decent films to watch on my Z3 too, so I take your point about tweaking being more interesting. The films I've seen recently all seem to fit into the category of (a) formulaic romantic comedy, (b) Bad remake or (c) 'clever' film with a confusing plot in which one of the main characters doesn't really exist.
     
  23. squibbly

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    ROne, have you tried messing about with the setting for the iris sensor that cine4home talk about?

    Blimey, we're well off-topic here, but what the hell!

    I'm struggling to buy an LCD also. The Z4 would meet my needs apart from the badly implemented iris, although I could stretch to the H60, but CKL at avbuzz says that the screen door is more visible due to the boosted contrast, and the iris gets confused by subtitles!

    Films:

    History of Violence: intelligent, adult thriller with some great acting performances. Bit violent for the missus.
    Sin City: Techno noir comic book fest. Highly stylised and wonderfully entertaining (especially Mickey Rourke). Bit violent for the missus!
    Layer Cake: a bit older, but about as good as you get in a Brit flick. This is the reason Daniel Craig got Bond. Bit violent for the missus!!

    And if you want to try out good contemporary directors, view anything by Wes Anderson, Paul Thomas Anderson, Spike Jonze or Pedro Almodovar (now the missus should like any of his last 5 films). Or anything written by Charlie Kaufmann.

    Hitchcock, Preston Sturges, Coen Bros, David Lynch, Terence Malick, and Jean-Luc Godard are just 6 of the reasons why I need to see films on a big screen.

    Squibbly
     
  24. ROne

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    Iris Sensor? I assume you mean the fact that the iris reacts differently in different picture pre-sets - well yes that's sort of what I've been doing (unless I've missed an entry on the menu!).

    Is this something in the Service Menu? The thing is, even if we could tweak the Iris, to get good contrast it would have to close down quite a lot and this would dim the overall brightness as it does in Powerful/Dynamic/Vivid. These modes just aren't usable IMHO.

    Something did occur to me though - as 1000:1 reckons to be the ball park projected film contrast - why are we(I) getting so bothered by the fact we can't reach 5000:1! I mean D65 and good ANSI contrast make a picture, an area where the Z4 does well.

    Maybe I should stick to one of the more successful presets and move on to D65?
    Done most of those films / directors. Though I would like to see HOV.
     
  25. squibbly

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    ROne

    Just reread the cine4home review and you're quite right. It was the 3 different iris programme modes I was getting confused with. Apologies.

    Squibbly
     
  26. paul_mowbray

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    Enough of this deliberation nonsense, have just ordered my Z4!! :)

    Should get it early next week.

    This is my first projector so I look forward to joing the ranks and a nice big fat picture, roll on monday!
     
  27. thechicco

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    Me too. I could trawl through the pro's and con's of the Z4, AE900, etc. until I am blue in the face but to be honest I really can't be fussed anymore, I just want to sit back and enjoy some movies and games.

    I remember going through a similar dilemma when trying to choose between an ATi and Nvidia GFX card ;)

    Will post some pics once it arrives :smashin:
     
  28. thechicco

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    The only thing that is bothering me, quite badly infact, is the EE via the HDMI port that you have mentioned. As I plan on running practically everything via my HTPC I will be very annoyed if this feature cannot be turned off completely.

    ROne - just how bad is it and have you had any more luck trying to sort it? If you can post an image of it then it would be very much appreciated as it may be acceptable to me for the time being until it can be tweaked more.


    Chicco
     
  29. ROne

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    The HDMI is not that bad, just frustrating as it wasn't there on the Z3.

    There is a sharpness compromise, I will try and get some picture of it. Most poeple would say "What's the big deal." But we have to be cautious some people would also be annoyed by it.
     
  30. ROne

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    The Service mode entry for the Z4 is same as the Z3.

    Press MENU+INPUT then whilst the S is on screen press UP+DOWN.

    Though i've yet to find a manual ...

    Use with caution and write things down!
     

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