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Sanyo Vs Sony (or my eyes)

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by slingshot, May 11, 2001.

  1. slingshot

    slingshot
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    Yesterday I picked up a couple of projectors from Audio T, the Sanyo PLV-30 and Sony WPV 10 thing.

    After reading the reviews that various people have posted I was expecting great things from the Sanyo, and I'll agree the contrast is excellent but I really don't think I could live with it, the picture looks very textured and there are a lot of jaggy edges, some shots look like a computer game in desperate need of anti-aliasing.

    The Sony looked a lot smoother and more realistic, so basically have I set it up wrong or is there some settings I could use to improve the picture ? I really want to like the Sanyo because it's half the price of the Sony.

    Any help gratefully taken on board.

    Cheers

    Slingshot

    P.S. the manual wasn't with the Sanyo so I may have missed something obvious, I'll try and track the manual down today (unless anyone knows if it's downloadable).
     
  2. Guest

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    Slingshot was kind enough to invite me along to view both machines last night. I've been trying to get to see both projectors, and as we're only 45 mins away, I travelled over last night, also with the hope of the Sanyo coming out the champion!

    The Sony seemed to give a very "soft" picture, with no visible dots - though we initially couldn't get blacks to look anything other than grey, but hey - who bothers with the manual. We discovered that "The Matrix" is not the best movie to setup with....
    Moving onto "Galaxy Quest" which has nice bright colours, and lots going on - the Sanyo did give better blacks, and the image was well defined. However, as Slingshot says - it wasn't perfect. I found it very grainy, and for example - where you could see the grey walls inside the spaceship, they looked alive with ants of varying shades of grey - i.e. there was no smoothness to the colour.

    Swapping to the Sony again, we both swore loudly - the grey walls looked like smooth grey walls, faces were much better defined, and faces in the background became faces, instead of a collection of coloured dots.

    Also though we tried, we could not get the Sanyo to appear to be fully in focus - it was not always clear where one object stopped and the other started.

    Given the picture differences, the fact that the Sanyo is quite noisy (the Sony isn't - esp. if as Cinema Black is engaged), and that the Sony can throw quite a lot bigger image from a smaller distance (which is critical to my due to room logistics) - I unfortunately feel compelled at the moment to save up another £2k!!

    Next up - I want to see the £2k NEC, and Tosh MT1 - just in case.

    Oh yeah - we tried both projectors with S-Video only (so the Sanyo may have been better with component - but didn't have a cable) - on my Panasonic DVD-A310 (R1).

    Thanks to Slingshot for his hospitality, and for potentially costing me an extra £2k ;)
     
  3. lmccauley

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    Interesting to hear your views on the Sony and Sanyo. When I compared the two I did find the Sony to have a *slightly* better picture with bright scenes, but I didn't notice the problems you describe on the Sanyo.

    I would guess that either:
    • You are much more bothered by, or sensitive to, the problems you describe than I am;
    • The Sanyo wasn't calibrated optimally.

    Having read your messages about the problems of getting a demo of the Sanyo in London, any suggestion of getting a good demo from a dealer is probably less than useful...

    Short of that, use AVIA to calibrate both machines and try again (VE is missing a test pattern that you need for LCD projectors).

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  4. Guest

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    Cheers Liam.

    P.S - Neither Slingshot nor I posted any of the comments about demo's (or lack of) in London
     
  5. Guest

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    It's a fair comment about the price / performance of the 2 units Jamie. We both wished we'd not seen the Sony. If we bought the Sanyo, we'd always be thinking "wish i'd saved up more bloody money..".

    I hope to see the NEC before I buy (can wait for a while, using a "free" proxima projector, tho' not great, it's better than nowt) - It's fair to say that different projectors look "different" - not just better/worse (how about that for a democratic statement!!)

    Also - understand what you mean about the noise. We were "looking" for it, and were sat with them about 2 feet from our ears. (Can you tell i'm a patient! ;) )

    P.S - If you read this a week ago, you'd be a Timelord, not a Psychologist. Ha!. Err. I'll get me coat....
     
  6. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    Video Essentials or AVIA calibration disks. Just wondering which disk you used to calibrate each projector before viewing.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  7. slingshot

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    Neither, just used my eyes, I should have borrowed one from Audio T but I forgot ! (I'll pop back tomorrow and ask em).

    Just out of interest is it really worth doing ? I set up my surround system with an SPL meter and test CD's, put up with it for a few days, and then set it back to how I liked it.

    I'm guessing we will have to disagree about the relative merits of each (be quite boring if we all bought the same stuff wouldn't it), but as I said I've still got a few days to play around with it.

    Slingshot
     
  8. lmccauley

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    I've never calibrated a front projector system, only regular TVs. It made a fair difference to my TV, but when I did my parents I found that the settings were almost identical to what my mother had set by eye.
    I'll leave it to the people that have calibrated or had their projectors calibrated to comment on how big a difference it makes.

    As far as having different opinions - absolutely. Different aspects have different import for different people. You're doing the right thing by judging with your own eyes, rather than mine :).

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  9. LV426

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    I've never seen the Sanyo, but i LOVE my Sony VW10. I have yet to see anything to beat it - including various popular CRT devices. Save up......

    Who knows, by the time you have the dosh, the mythical VW11 might be a reality.
     
  10. Paul D

    Paul D
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    I also love my "new" Sony vw10ht. After a little "fiddling" erm... i mean calibration!. I found the picture stunning no matter what i threw at it. It may be something to do with its 3D gamma correction but i am seeing things in dark scenes that i have not seen before. It is also brighter than my last projector so i'am going half a shade darker on my grey screen!(even better blacks etc).
    The big question is, is it worth £1600 more than the other machine...IMHO --- YES!!!. It addresses all the issues (apart from true black) of my other machine. Having said that, i was thrilled with my other machine. Apart from some "vertical streaking" (panel structure)i was very happy.
    A word of warning to any 16.9 projector buyers, PC games run mainly in 4.3 so are smaller than on a true 4.3 machine!.
    The sanyo plv30 is still a excellent projector "for the money".
    The tosh MT1z is still a excellent projector "for the money".
    The sony vw10ht is "now" a excellent projector "for the money".
    In other words if the sony cost £2000 then it would be better value than the other two. But seen as it cost nearly twice the price it better had be f***ing better!...Paul :cool:
     
  11. slingshot

    slingshot
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    Cheers Nick, much better short review than mine (especially the description of the Ants in the screen).

    I had another play last night to try and set the Sanyo up better without any luck really, I've got a few more people coming round at the weekend so I'll make use of it and see what they think of the 2 and keep you informed (not that anyone's opinion is really going to convince me to save 2K at the moment).

    Slingshot
     
  12. slingshot

    slingshot
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    P.S anyone with a Sanyo know how you can tell how many hours it's had, I checked the Sony and it had just 200 hours on the clock, it would be nice to know since the Sanyo also had some knackered pixels, so maybe it's seen a few to many dems.
     
  13. lmccauley

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    Oops, I'm confusing you with jamie r. Sorry.

    In that case, can you get to a dealer that has properly calibrated units set up for demo?

    BTW, how are you calibrating the projectors? VE or AVIA?

    Cheers,
    Liam

    [ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: lmccauley ]
     
  14. Guest

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    VE or AVIA?
    ----------

    Hmm. Err..

    Liam - I haven't got a clue what either are - Slingshot - do you? :confused:

    P.S - We forgot to mention the 2 green "dead" pixels on the Sanyo - about half way down, 1/4 in on the left :-(

    [ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: nick_dale ]
     
  15. jamie

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    Hey guys, yes it was me who couldnt find a sanyo.

    My take (without seeing either the sanyo [couldnt find] - or sony [problems addressing whole screen from PC and cost]) is that the sanyo is "much better value for money", not "much better". maybe that point helps.

    I gave up and took delivery of my VT540 yesterday and am well pleased - but who isnt once they get one.

    My opinion now i have it is i'm glad i didnt get the sanyo since the brightness on the vt540 (1000 lum) is only just enough in my front room on a summer evening with the curtains closed. i dont have all the paraphernalia (SP?) like blackouts etc, but i'd need them if i'd got a dimmer projector like the sanyo.

    the picture looks fantastic too, although i understand the greys arent black :) - this doesnt worry me it seems

    only other point is that in ones own front room the machine seems a lot louder than in the showroom - i know its not since i took the actual unit that i auditioned - its more to do with ones expectations - it just 'feels' louder than out in a foreign location - home "should be quiet" (can you tell I'm a psychologist?) - so I'm glad i got the NEc again since its a quiet one compared to the others (other than sony).

    hope that helps. if i'd read this a week ago it would have saved me a lot of time :)

    sorry for all the smileys :(

    jamie
     
  16. minimivic

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    For those of us you that like the VW10HT..
    You ain't seen nothin yet!!!!

    720p through the HTPC is just superb, colours are more natural and brighter with better black level and detail in the black. Also virtually no visable signs of motion artifacting.

    1080i through HTPC or even better the Extron 7SC outboard scaler. This really has to be seen to be believed. Its like looking at another projector altogether. The image comes alive, it takes on a 3D feel and just throws detail at you. I've never seen so much information in the darker backgrounds of films on the Sony. What motion artifacting?? All but gone, very smooth..

    Well worth the time and additional expence.

    Sharky

    Forge Audio www.forgeaudio.co.uk
     
  17. Paul D

    Paul D
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    How do i get 1080i through my HTPC?.
    I assume i need to use Powerstrip etc.
    Will i have to set it to "HDV" instead of "Computer" as this softens the image slightly.
    Any word from sony yet on a firmware update to allow 1 to 1 mapping in 1366x768 etc.
    Paul
     
  18. minimivic

    minimivic
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    Hi Fulabeer,

    1080i is very dificult with the HTPC.
    Yes you do need Power strip to give custom resolutions, even then its very hard to get the projector to lock onto the signal.
    You will have to use the DTV input.

    Resolution = 1776x1000

    HRATE = 33.812
    Active = 1776
    FP = 48
    Sync = 152
    BP = 224
    Total = 2200

    VRATE = 30.082 (Interlaced)
    Active = 1000
    FP = 8
    Sync = 28
    BP = 88
    Total = 1124

    Interlace ON

    That should give you the setting required.

    Good luck your going to need it. Drop me a line and let me know how its going.

    Sharky

    Forge Audio www.forgeaudio.co.uk
     
  19. Guest

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    Well (mainly to Slingshot), I saw another projector on Saturday - The SIM2 DLP.
    That takes my total to 4.
    Davis Cinema 1 = no Keystone correction, noisy, o.k picutre - 6/10

    Sanyo PLV30 - "ants" on the screen, fairly long throw (no good for me) 7/10

    Sony VW10HT - quiet / good throw / great picture - but blacks are more grey. 9/10

    SIM2 - Excellent picture - better than the Sony (but not by a lot I reckon). However - you need a football field size room to throw a postage stamp size image (o.k - slight exaggeration, but it needed a longer throw than the other 3). Also - I'd heard of this "Rainbow effect", but didn't know when / where / how. My wife who knows totally zip about projectorss accompanied me (Audio Excellence - Gloucester) and we watched some of the middle of Gladiator R2.
    You know in Monty Python, when they throw subliminal messages on the screen for about 1/10 of a second - well that's what the rainbow effect is like. It's almost too quick for the brain to register - and you don't realise it until about 1-2 seconds later. When Russell's weilding his sword / staff etc. and it's moving quick especially - I kept seeing a strip of rainbow colour (an arc shape I think it was). My wife said she thought it was just her eyes - so both of us saw it. As i've seen posted before - "once you've seen it - you can't get away from it". It happened at least 10-15 times in the 7 or so minute clip we saw. No thankyou! Great picture but unacceptable (to us) weird effects. 5/10 unfortunately - couldn't live with it.
    Maybe all SIM2 owners are having their brain implanted with some alien strobing message - the projector does look like it's from another planet. Wow - conspiracy theory about a £6k lump of plastic...

    ..I'll get me coat.

    [ 14-05-2001: Message edited by: nick_dale ]
     
  20. slingshot

    slingshot
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    My totals now three Davis Cinema One, Sanyo and Sony.

    So after living with the Sony and Sanyo for a weekend have I changed my mind ? Have my friends changed my mind for me ?

    Well to cut a long story (and numerous beers) short, no.

    I spent some time setting the Sanyo up better, and it really does have great colours and contrast, but it seems to do this at the expense of detail. For example myself and my little sister were watching the 3rd and 4th scenes of MI2 (the darkish one with the flamenco dancers in, and then the cars on the cliff).

    The Sanyo looked great with nice contrast, if you could ignore the apparent texture. However once we switched back to the Sony we could even tell that Tom Cruises jacket was a sort of velvet texture (it looked like a standard DJ on the Sanyo).

    Toy Story 2 was they same story again, the Sony looked a lot less jaggy (maybe progressive scan would help on the Sanyo) and had more apparent detail.

    The only time I started to have 2nd thoughts was with series one of Farscape which is all in 4:3, and this seemed to even things up slightly (once I'd reset the Sony to be the same screen size).

    Anyway the Sanyo is now packed in a box to go back, I'm keeping the Sony out till the last possible moment, which pretty much sums it up, is the Sony worth an extra 2K ? Well everyone too there own, but to me it's worth every penny.
     
  21. Guest

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    What's the deal with borrowing these players from Audio Excellence then? I'd love to try out a projector with my pc and see what sort of picture I'd get. Plus how long are you allowed to have them for?
    Thanks
    Dean.
     
  22. WSquared

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    On the topic of calibration. The AVIA disc and Video Essentials disc(getting on a bit now) are used in calibrating ALL the settings of your projector. Having used both, I prefer the AVIA disc for it's better "black" or contrast calibration routines. If you really want to get the most out of your projector(or TV) go to Amazon.com and spend $40 or so and have it shipped over from the states. You can't compair projectors without having calibrated them using one of these discs.

    (Tip: When using Amazon, you can send things as a gift. In this case, they put the value of the package as $0.00 so the recipent doesn't know how much you spent. If Customs open it, they can't charge any tax because it's not worth anything. So, send it to yourself as a gift.!!!) I don't know if they got wise to this yet... :D
     
  23. slingshot

    slingshot
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    Hi Dean,

    it was Audio T I borrowed them from, I've spent a lot of money their in the past (don't know if this makes a difference). But basically I asked if I could have a demo (thinking in their demo rooms) they got 2 of the projectors I was interested in and took an imprint of my Visa card for security, leant me a portable screen and said bring them back next week !

    I'm not sure if this is standard for all Audio T shops, but assuming your prepared too leave your credit card or something, I wouldn't have thought it was a problem.

    Slingshot
     

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