Sanyo PLV-Z3 or Infocus Screenplay 7205?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by kevin glover, Apr 21, 2007.

  1. kevin glover

    kevin glover
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    Just about to take delivery of a shiny new Arcam DV29 and Sony PS3 for my home cinema. I currently have a Sanyo PLV-Z3 and have seen the infocus 7205 for sale secondhand, would I see any improvement in PQ when connected to my new sources, what is the throw distance like compared to my Sanyo and how does fan noise compare?. HELP!!!
     
  2. DarrenB

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    I too have been looking at 7205's second hand...I also looked at a 7210, this has dlp 3 chip so is a lot more expensive than the 7205 second hand, one just sold on that famous auction site for 770 plus fifty quid postage i think!....

    To be honest, for me, at the sort of prices a 7205 will go for second hand, I've come to the conclusion that you'd be better off going for something like the Sanyo Z5 brand new.

    I say this because:

    The 7205 and 7210 have quite a restrictive zoom so the placement of the PJ in relation to the screen is crucial.
    I already have a ceiling mount and screen in place so I'd rather not move them.
    Models like the Sanyo Z5 and the Hitachi tx300 they have a much more adjustable zoom, 2x on the sanyo, 1.7x on the hitachi, so the PJ's distance from screen falls within a much wider range making placement within an existing screen\mount setup more flexible.
    I missed out on a second hand IN76 recently, but after looking at it in more depth for me the zoom isnt very flexi on that neither....

    I already have an infocus DLP PJ and I sometimes see a little bit of rainbow effect, so the LCD of the Z5 will sort that out for me.

    Youd get a full maufacturers warranty (3yrs on the Z5, 2 on the tx300 i believe)

    I guess I could go on and on re the differences for me but it's horses for courses, each person makes their own specific choices..

    Think about this, minimum of £550 for a 2nd hand 7205 and approx £700 for a new Z5, an extra 150 I know but you get warranty, higher contrast ratio and lumens than preceeding models, brand new lamp that you know the history on...etc....

    I'm probably going to buy a Z5 next week that I got quoted £710 on delivered.

    I already have a PS3, Tosh HD-E1 and am routing it all thru an Onkyo 674, so I guess my setup is similar to yours in terms of sources...

    Good luck in your quest,
     
  3. theritz

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    I have experience of using both these projectors.

    You'd see a very significant improvement in picture quality, placement is nowhere near as flexible as the Z3 (no lens shift), and the 7205 would be distinctly louder than the Z3.

    It's really a matter of what importance you place on picture quality - if you're willing to put up with a projector which you will be able to hear during quiet bits in movies and make a bit of an effort when mounting the projector (assuming that it will suit you own polace in terms of throw distance, check it out on the Infocus site or proejctorcentral.com), then the improvement in picture quality is well worth it - no picture structure, screendoor, perfectly uniform colour, better optics and DCDI picture processing. It's in the colour accuracy stakes that the 7205 will beat the pants off the Z3.



    S.
     
  4. DarrenB

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    How about if you compared the 7205, which is an older DLP to something like a Z5 which is the latest in the Z series....as opposed to the Z3

    :D
     
  5. theritz

    theritz
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    I was answering the OP's question between the Z3 and 7205.

    TBH, if it was a choice between the Z5 and the 7205, I'd take the 7205. I'd prefer the picture performance and would be guaranteed no issue with picture structure, LCD artifacts, or colour uniformity, which is often exacerbated by iris mechanisms. I also reckon that a 7205/7210 is built to a far higher standard than LCD projectors in the Z3/4/5 etc class.

    You've already made a comparison and came to your own conclusion - it's really a matter of personal preference.

    S.
     
  6. kevin glover

    kevin glover
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    Thanks for the info so far guys, any ideas on what my used Z3 is worth these days, box, manual etc in mint condition and about 200 Hrs on the bulb?
     
  7. DarrenB

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    In comparing the 7205 to the Z3, what was the original purchase price of each, at the time? Were they in about the same price class?

    Now really, the picture on the Z3 cant be that bad right? Possible issues with picture structure, artifacts, uniformity all make it sound really bad........

    Aye, like it's mentioned in the for sale thread on the 7205, the Z3 on the well known auction site will be a good indicator of 2nd hand value.....on a bad day I'd guess at less than 200 quid - on a good day 300...
     
  8. theritz

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    :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



    I didn't say that the picture from the Z3 was bad - it doesn't have a bad picture at all. I had one for well over a year and was very pleased with it - it was practically silent in use, was a doddle to set up, and with a bit of tweaking it threw a fine image.

    There is a difference between expressing an opinion on one projector in isolation and making a comparison between two projectors. The price of either of them at the time is neither here nor there - my opinion is based on the essential qualities of the projectors - one is noisy by comparison to the other and is more difficult to locate than the other, but, in my opinion, throws a better picture.

    If you can find any reviews (or opinions) describing a DLP DC2 projector as having a picture which is inferior to a D4 or D5 LCD projector, I'd be interested in reading them.


    S.
     
  9. kevin glover

    kevin glover
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    Thanks for the info/opinions guy's. The seller has agreed to do a home demo of his 7205 and my Z3 on Tuesday so I guess I will find out for myself. My biggest worry is fan noise. I will be mounting the projector on a bracket directly above my seating position, any idea the db difference between the 7205 and the Z3?
     
  10. Baloo

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    I may be interested in the Z3 if you do put it up for sale.
     
  11. DarrenB

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    Think I'll just get my coat and leave.
     
  12. Timbo21

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    Well, if anyone's interested my Optoma H79 is for sale :) .

    Yes, it's quite a bit more pricewise than what's mentioned here, but it gives some of the best DLP pictures unless spending considerably more.

    It is about the quietest projector around, and has vertical lens shift for easy install. Contrast on this is eye popping. I'm only trying to sell so I can go 1080p.

    I updated to this from a 7205 just over a year ago ;) . The extra contrast and the DC3 chip certainly put it way ahead of the 7205.

    See signature for thread.

    Thnks,

    T.

    ps. Still has 21 months "hot swap" warranty.
     
  13. kevin glover

    kevin glover
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    Ok Baloo, will bear it in mind. I have seen a couple go in the last 2 months for £400ish and one has just gone on that famous auction site for £445 delivered.
     
  14. Baloo

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    Turned down a Z4 with a bulb voucher for 430 so if your looking for more than 300 then I'm out. Nice projector but very much older technology and it would only be a stop gap for me. If you price it reasonably then I would be very interested but otherwise, good luck.
     
  15. Baloo

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    Nice PJ and tempting but my budget lies at 750 so yours is sadly out of my range, good luck though :thumbsup:
     
  16. kevin glover

    kevin glover
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    Well ,I'll see what happens on Tuesday and we might be able to have a deal if I buy the 7205.
     
  17. theritz

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    DarrenB


    Hopefully not............ reading back over my last post it's a bit abrupt, just trying to explain why I came to the conclusion originally posted in answer ot the OP - no offence intended, I assure you :) .

    Kevin,

    Great opportunity to get a 1:1 comparison against a prospective "next projector" - hope you get a good result.

    S.
     
  18. Randell

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    I'll be interested to hear of the difference. I'm debating whether to get a new Panny AX100E or a second hand DLP such as a 7205 or Optoma H79.

    Worried about rainbows though with DLP's, and even if I'm not susceptible, then my family or friends might be.
     
  19. kevin glover

    kevin glover
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    Well guys,I had my demo tonight of the Screnplay 7205 alongside my Sanyo PLV-Z3 and ended up walking away feeling graet about my Z3, no doubt that the contrast was enhanced with the 7205 and skin tones were slightly better, however for image clarity and structure (despite what most reviews say) the Z3 looked better in my opinion hence I am not swapping.
    Danny, who's 7205 I was looking at was impressed by the Z3 too, surprisingly so I think. I and Danny imagined there would be a big step up in PQ from the Z3 but in my opinion any gains I saw were marred by a grainer image when compared to the Sanyo.
    Has got me keen to see what a Z5 looks like now, also danny told me he had found a UK supplier doing the new 1080p panny under 2k!!. I do love this home cinema business but one thing always leads to another,,, usually a row with the missus about me "wasting" money on new kit!!.
    Thanks for your help guys and good luck in your quests for your next projector.
     
  20. theritz

    theritz
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    Kevin,

    Surprised at that, but glad that you're happy with the outcome......


    S.
     
  21. pal

    pal
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    Kevin....I would be very interested for a Panny 1000 @ 2K..any idea where from?
     
  22. DarrenB

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    Well there you go.....I demo'd a Z5 and have bought one this week, will be setting it up this weekend, so you're welcome to come around and see it in action.

    Incedentally, was Danny's room completely blacked out? I have a dedicated cinema built in my loft, four large Velux windows fitted with Velux blackout blinds - makes it perfect for Projector viewing, even during the day so i guess I'm lucky in having the right conditions to get the most out of the Z5.

    Only issue I have now, in the Summer, it with heat output!
     
  23. kevin glover

    kevin glover
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    Not sure where he ha s sen it at under 2k, Amazon were doing it at £1899 but I think they put the price up recently. Danny's handle on here is "oaklyspatz", drop him a PM and mention that I posted it on thi sthread, he seems a decent chap so I feel sure he will share the info with you.
     
  24. kevin glover

    kevin glover
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    I too was surprised, based on reviews and comments on this site, however as you well know it is down to the eyes at the end of the day.
    I think the 7205 is a good projector, worth £5k new?, no way IMHO but at £1200 at the end of it's life it was a good deal, half that secondhand now and anyone getting one would be happy I'm sure as it does boast excellent contrast and fine skin tone reproduction, however for me it is a little grainy and struggled with upscaled DVD's at 1080i far more than my Z3 which is surprising given the chipset in the 7205, however I think some of this is down to what the player is doing as well and in this instance average cableing in my opinion... Bottom line is that there was not anough improvement in PQ to warrant the additional outlay when new projectors such as the Z5 and a few DLP machines can be hand for a few quid more. also 1080p for less than 2k is tempting!!
     
  25. kevin glover

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    Cheers Darren, hope it all goes well for you. I would love to pop over and see it in action, where are you based and what sources will you be using with the Z5?, also how mucgh did you pay and what was the best price you found for just the projector (without lamp voucher).
    Danny was using his projectoe shelf mounted above the sofa in his front room on to a screen with a 92" diagonal at a distance of about 2.5-3 metres I reckon, a tough test for any projector as IMHO that is right on the cusp of seeing PQ structure from any projector!, I did the demo at about half 8ish so it was dark outside but essentially it's Danny's front room.
     
  26. Timbo21

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    Why on earth would you send 1080i upscaled SD DVD to a native 720p projector? It may look good on your Z3, but it doesn't strike me as the best way to do things, since 576 has to be scaled to 1080, and then scaled back down to 720 - the native resolution of the 7205. I'm not surprised it looked grainy.

    I do realise some people will be saying 1080i looks better than 720p from my upscaling DVD player, but that could be something to do with the deinterlacing, since with 1080i the display has to deinterlace, but with upscaled 720p the player is doing it.

    It is true that some 720 displays work better with one or the other input resolutions, but 720p should be the first choice with a 720p native projector (unless it's native 1080 HD).

    T.

    ps. Having owned a 7205 myself, I remember 720p from my 3910 looked better than 1080i.
     
  27. kevin glover

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    Ahh Timbo, the old 720p, 1080i debate!!. I guess I should have made myself clear in my earlier post, so here goes!!.
    Firstly wheather 720p or 1080i the Sanyo Z3 looked better in my opinion although I concede the contrast and skin tones were a bit better on the 7205, however image clarity and lack of digital artifacts were better on the Z3.
    Secondly I referred to 1080i as the owner of the projector had a Toshiba HD DVD player as well as a Samsung BD****? Blue ray player therefore as I'm sure you know both these players will upscale any SD material, although not very well IMHO, this was the owners set up and he was kind enough to invite me to his home and do a side by side demo, therefore I was at the mercy of his equipment and set up.. bottom line is that last nights results for me showed that from a BD or HD DVD player with BD, HD DVD and upscaled (720p OR 1080i) SD material the Z3 came out on top to my eyes, I was the one there mate, trust me!!.
    Now there are some limiting factors:
    Firstly my projector was hooked up using a £100 3m Chord company HDMI lead and the players moved in to position accordingly, howevr the owner was using his own lead with the players sat in there usual position, this was a £55 lead for 15m so I'm not convinced of it's quality compared to mine.
    Secondly IMHO a seating position of 2.5-3m from a 92" diagonal screen is pushing it a bit for any projector and the danger of seeing image structure is heightened, again it may be pushing the 7205 to it's limit but again the Z3 exhibited very little structure artifacts by comparison. Also the 7205 was exhibiting something like "fizzing pixels" that I sometime's see on my Panny TH42PX60 plasma in my front room so that was off putting to say the least!!.
    I feel sure that there are many happy 7205 owners out there as there are Z3 users and no doubt both are good PJ's.. BUT for me there are better out there based on last night experience and I hope better HD DVD and BD players as so far I have not been blown away by either, even at native 1080p resolution on the new panny or JVC.
    Still can't knock the Arcam DV29, nothing wrong with SD done THAT well IMHO!!
     
  28. Timbo21

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    I've only ever seen one LCD projector, and it was a Panny AE700. That gave a very detailed sharp & clear picture (vertical banding excluded), but it felt like I was watching a large TV-like image, rather than having 'filmic' qualities, but I can understand why there are fans of both technologies.

    I think it's easy to get complacement about our setups and start to think of upgrading/changing. After putting some black sheeting up around my projector I've increased contrast & black level by a huge amount. So gets me thinking... probably not worth going 1080p at this stage. My H79 has excellent contrast with no auto iris, and apparently better ansi contrast than an HD1. I guess I'm trying to dissuade my self :) ;)

    T.
     
  29. martin purnell

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    Hi Kevin. Great thread btw. I have been slightly amazed that whilst there are other owner type threads, there isn't one for the Z3 or Zs in total! I actually bought my Z3 in January brand new here in Northern Ireland. Having read up on all things PJ, I decided on LCD as I had seen the rainbow effect from a £2k pj. The only shop I could find in my locality, (in fact the only shop I could find apart from 1 other in Belfast which is 60 miles away) had a Yamaha DLP and 2 Sanyo Z3s. I did ask if they could order me a Z5 but with Northern Ireland delivery rates being what they are and the fact that no suppliers here in the province had a Z5, left me with little option! Also, the shop who also sell high end audio gear and unlike Curry's really know what they are talking about (in my opinion!!!) had seen the Z4 in action. They were convinced that despite being a newer model with better features, the PQ wasn't up to the Z3 standard. The point I'm trying to make with an analogy thrown in is that if Top Gear can state (which they did) that despite a Mark 4 Golf being an updated version of the Mark 3 it isn't as good as the latter. Newer doesn't mean it is better than a previous model. Compromises have to be made etc..
    I had though by now seen the Z3 in action and despite it being the "older" model bought it, as did my friend who bought the other one! It would be great to read any reviews form either yourself or someone else here on this forum that has been able to demo a direct comparison between the Z3 and Z5.
    I doubt if the difference will be like the one between VHS and DVD! Which leads very nicely into your points between upscaling and SD. I agree entirely with what you say. In fact, I posted this on another thread. Please see this thread so that I don't have to repeat myself!

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=501405

    I have also just measured my homemade painted screen (won't bore you with that, suffice to say it is available under the projection screen thread!) and my Z3 is 2.75 metres away from the screen. However, my screen diameter is 60 inches. I use the Normal Through screen image via HQ 10 metre component cable rather than the full wide settings. The PQ is excellent and am wondering if this is because the 100% image is in the centre of the iris/lens and ,therefore, the light might be stronger than that around the edges. perhaps others have noticed this, or that it just falls into the category called Personal Preference!

    Any thoughts on the above is welcomed!

    Martin
     
  30. kevin glover

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    Hi Martin, glad you have found this thread useful, I have read your previous post re SD V upscaling technology and believe that you make a fair point. I am a professional photographer by trade and use software for image editing and manipualtion on a daily basis .I am well aware of the pitfalls of adding "false" information to an image by letting software "guess" at the information contained within a given number of pixels in a given location and then apply its own parameters to try and best match that information, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, it really depends on the image quality to begin with and the quality of the software of course.
    I have owned a couple of Denon upscaling SD players before that use Farouja DCDI upscaling chipsets and have to say that they worked pretty well when fed a decent disc, however lower quality NTSC discs with fewer lines of info to begin with looked pretty poor IMHO.
    The arcam DV29 is sublime as an SD player and I doubt there is better out there except maybe its replacement!!. I am about to get a free PS3 with my mobile upgrade next month and intend selling it for a standalone blue ray or HD DVD machine, PQ is improved aginst the arcam due to the higher resolution, however as Danny's players proved the other night and as most reviews have stated, these machines are built to do one thing well and that is high def stuff so the DV29 will be staying for some time as I have over 400 SD discs!!, plus it is a great CD player and another reason why I went for a £1600 SD DVD player in this time of change.
    I have contacted the company I deal with re a Z5 demo and will keep people posted if/when it happens, as with the 7205 demo on Tuesday I will walk away with my Z3 unless I see a marked improvement in PQ from the Z5 and wait for 2nd gen 1080p PJ's in a year or so.
    As to you comments re "normal through" as opposed to " full wide" setting I'm really not sure on that one , I have never tried it myself and my PJ is boxed up after Tuesday's demo and will remain so until I get the Z5 demo. Have you changed the overscan preset from -10 as I'm not sure you will get the full image with the screen set up you have, that said I have not tried it myself but intend to once I get the chance, maybe others on here have a better idea, I don't profess to being an expert on these matters I am merely an avid fan of all things AV!!
     

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