Samsung WS32409TQX HD Ready CRT

asteven221

Standard Member
I have just bought one of these HD ready crt tellys. I am happy with it except it seems to have a flaw which I would be interested to know whether it's a fault or a design problem. It becomes obvious when people are getting interviewed and their face fills most of the picture. What happens is that when you look at the skin you will see it moving by itself as if they are slightly melting. Wierd I know and damned hard to explain! It is most obvious around the forehead area and almost looks like there are two pictures on top of each other and one is slightly moving giving this picture lag effect. It is definately there and everyone who looks at the screen can see it when it is pointed out to them. I have tried a DVD and it does it as well so I am certain it's the TV. I also read somewhere a review by a user and he complained of this effect so I suspect it might be a design problem. If it is and I assume most visitors to this site are fairly discerning in their choice of tv then I would advise you to stay clear of this model as it will really annoy you. Has anyone else come across this?
 

dunjam

Standard Member
Yes, I posted about this in the other thread with 90 odd pages, its as though there are two pictures one on top of the other; one with the face and one with the eyes and they move around independantly of each other. It only does it through scart. I had to use it becasue something was wrong with my Telewest box, though HDMI it doesn't seem to do it.
 

davie563

Active Member
Hi, i just got this Tv as well. Ive only noticed this once. For me it only happens when im watchin Free-View box. Anything under say 60% signal strenth and it does it (and wierdly only on channels 2 and 4)... Could be an interference thing. But ive watched at least 6-7 films so far since i got it a week ago throu my normal RGB scart dvd player and ive never seen this. In fact im really impressed with DVD playback. looks fab! I use the RGB socket for my DVD and normal one for my freeview box.
 

dunjam

Standard Member
hmm, I was watching lost on channel 4 and that was really bad, I almost couldn't watch it beacuse of their faces sliding around everywhere.

Still got the HDMI connection working again and the problems gone away
 

asteven221

Standard Member
Just back from mu holidays and so just read the responses. Glad it's not just me, but it seems pretty crap that we should have to expermiment with different inputs and so on just to get a proper picture. I will try experiments to see if I can get it to go away. At least there is hope!
 

hamster

Active Member
It's an MPEG decode problem. I've seen it on some Freeview material and particularly on some bad MCE PC software codecs. Occasionally the video processing also gives this dirty window effect. Anyway, sorry it's the hardware and not much you can do about it.

It's really disconcerting to watch!
 

Dan0647

Standard Member
hamster said:
It's an MPEG decode problem. I've seen it on some Freeview material and particularly on some bad MCE PC software codecs. Occasionally the video processing also gives this dirty window effect. Anyway, sorry it's the hardware and not much you can do about it.

It's really disconcerting to watch!
I may be incorrect but I don't think the 409 has a MPEG decoder so perhaps its a different problem.
 

asteven221

Standard Member
I have got Comet coming out on Thursday to have a look at it. It does seem intermittent, but I think I will probably go for an LCD as this problem simply shouldn't be their and I don't want to put up with it as it is sometimes unwatchable. I will post how I get on.
 
D

dancewav

Guest
please do . people often say they will reply with the outcome but never do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:confused:
i am very interested to see if the various problems with this tv can be sorted
 

Dan0647

Standard Member
davie563 said:
Hi, i just got this Tv as well. Ive only noticed this once. For me it only happens when im watchin Free-View box. Anything under say 60% signal strenth and it does it (and wierdly only on channels 2 and 4)... Could be an interference thing. But ive watched at least 6-7 films so far since i got it a week ago throu my normal RGB scart dvd player and ive never seen this. In fact im really impressed with DVD playback. looks fab! I use the RGB socket for my DVD and normal one for my freeview box.

Is it possible for you to connect the Free View box via RGB to see if that cures the problem - May be a problem that effects composite video only.

If RGB works ok then it would be interesting to try S-video next.

If your able to try these tests then perhaps you could post how you got on.

Regards
 

asteven221

Standard Member
Dan0647 said:
Is it possible for you to connect the Free View box via RGB to see if that cures the problem - May be a problem that effects composite video only.

If RGB works ok then it would be interesting to try S-video next.

If your able to try these tests then perhaps you could post how you got on.

Regards

First of all the guy from Comet has just been. He could see the problem himself but suggested that it's really a problem inherent with digital telly and caused by transmission bitrates. He says that he has seen it on LCD and a replacement Sammy 409 will be just the same. mmmmmmmm! I am not so sure. I do accept that the transmision bitrate could could influence the resulting picture but after reading the postings on this forum, hardly anyone complains of this problem and only seem to be unhappy about geometry etc.. My 409 is superb in all aspects except this weird and very irritating problem. It would seem that I can have a replacement 409 if I want or could "upgrade" to an LCD of some sort which I guess will cost me another £250 for an entry level 32" LCD. I am am really not sure what to do. Do I get a new 409 and see what happens? Maybe it could be worse (geometry issues?) or will a £700 LCD provide as good a picture as the Sammy without the sliding faces problem? Decisions decisions!
Thanks for the suggestions Dan0647. All my comments on this telly are using Sky through scarts and my Pioneer DVD/HDD recorder through scart. My analogue reception is pathetic and I don't have a freeview box. I could try the S-video input and also the RGG. In fact I suppose I could record a program that is causing the problem on the Pioneer HDD recorder first and then play it back via the different interfaces to see what the result is.
 

Dan0647

Standard Member
asteven221 said:
All my comments on this telly are using Sky through scarts and my Pioneer DVD/HDD recorder through scart. My analogue reception is pathetic and I don't have a freeview box. I could try the S-video input and also the RGG. In fact I suppose I could record a program that is causing the problem on the Pioneer HDD recorder first and then play it back via the different interfaces to see what the result is.

The scart connection from your Sky box can carry either composite or RGB. You can set this on the Sky box in Services then option 4 "System Setup" then option 1 "Picture" then the fourth item down is video output, here you can select either RGB or PAL (means composite video). RGB will give the best possible picture. Additionally the Pioneer HDD recorder should be able to accept a RGB input and provide RGB output so if neccessary you could daisy chain your Sky box through the Pioneer and onto the RGB input of the Sammy, all using scart plugs.

See how you get on!
Dan
 

asteven221

Standard Member
Thanks for the info Dan. I decided to buy a DVD player yesterday that has HDMI so I could try that interface. At the same time I looked at all the LCD's on display at Comet to see if I should upgrade. Although I realise the signal might not be perfect in Comet, the PQ on the LCD's didn't look particulary exciting and certainly no better (worse actually) than the Sammy. I am now thinking that I will carry on with the 409 as it seems potentially better than the LCD's for all normal viewing and at least £250 cheaper. After plugging in the DVD player and setting the resolution on it to 1080 I thought the PQ was nothing short of superb and it is difficult for me to see how it could be significantly improved (significantly being the important word!) regardless of the television purchased. I realise that I am not using proper HD with the DVD player and it is Upscaled to 1080, or at least I think that's what it's called, but regardless of the technicalities it is seriously good nevertheless. When I feed it with a proper HD resolution I am sure it's going to be well impressive. Whilst fiddling around I noticed the RGB/PAL setting on my Sky box, so I set it to RGB to see what happened. To be honest I didn't see any obvious difference but then again I wasn't really looking carefully, but as you suggest I will keep it on the RGB setting. I think that the weird "sliding faces" problem is still their on some digital channels, but I am coming round to the idea it's not the television itself as such, rather the manner of the transmission being received and the television is reacting accordingly. I know that's not exactly ideal. It is definately worse on certain channels i.e. American channels seem the worst i.e. CNN, Fox etc.... I will pay more attention tonight to see if it's got any better with the RGB connection. I will give your suggestions a try with the Pioneer hard disk recorder. Comet have not actually contacted me regarding a replacement/upgrade/refund but the engineer assured me that this would be forthcoming so what I might do is just go for the replacement Sammy hoping that I get the latest (fixed) one where all the issues (even the ones it hasn't got) are cured. I will keep posting as it may interest prospective owners in making a decision on whether to buy or not as there are a lot of opinions on this forum about the 409/419. My opinion is swinging back from getting rid of it to actually promoting it as a brilliant buy and to be recommended. Incidentaly I don't do computer games on it. I work with computers every day and have done for 20 years fixing them etc.... and the last thing I want is to play computer games at home, so none of my comments refer to gaming. Incidently, IMHO and for what it's worth. On a technical level, gaming i.e. computer generated graphics, place different demands on a display. Computer graphics at a consumer level are pretty poor to say the least for obvious reasons - they have to be cheap. As a consequence the graphics are slow or often still. The colours and lighting also play a big part as the lack of processing power in Playstations/Xboxes and to a lessor extent PC's greatly limit what the programmers can achieve. If my priority was games, I would almost certainly go for an LCD display, which after all is a glorified PC monitor and is therefore good at still pictures and slow graphics with a limited colour range, but for television where moving content is the norm, I can only see benefits in CRT as things stand. Conversely, CRT is not so good at still images or graphics. On the subject of picture quality, television programmes have a lot variables involved before the transmission even starts its journey to your tv and as a consequence there is considerable scope for the PQ to vary. Maybe trying to get the ultimate PQ is a pipe dream, which cannot feasibly be achieved so after a certain level - why bother. Getting paranoid about evey flaw in the PQ just drive you crazy. We can watch a fifties film in B&W and after a few minutes forget that it B&W and just enjoy it. Maybe we (I) have to be sensible and realistic about our (my) expectation level and stop chasing perfection. Anyway Dan sorry about the preaching, but it seemed to flow out of my keyboard! Thanks for the advice.
 

KyoDash

Active Member
Have you tried going into the service menu and turning off the Velocity Scan Modulation (VSM) I think it's called.

This extra amount of artificial processing could be causing the effect, as 100hz processing can also do the same thing. I've heard that on the component and HDMI inputs the sammy doesn't use any processing (bar VSM, so you'll have to turn this off still) so maybe an RGB to component adapter might do the trick.

Ultimately a normal 50hz or 60hz set without any digital processing doesn't suffer from any unwanted effects like this, unless the freeview signal is really bad or weak in your area. So it's most likely the downside of the processing done on this TV. LCD's and Plasma's largely do the same, though processing can be much better on higher end models.

For freeview and normal 50hz viewing no high end CRT, LCD or Plasma is that great unfotunitely. Exactly why I'm still keeping my 4:3 21" Sony Wega CRT until a smaller HD CRT comes along without the probs of this Sammy. After all the 4:3 21" slimfit Samsung doesn't have these issues, but sadly it's also not HD or progressive scan and it's not widescreen.
 

gixxerman

Active Member
davie563 said:
Anything under say 60% signal strenth

- The weird thing is that I live in an appalling area for digi terrestrial; I have never seen my meter reach never mind breach the 40% mark and yet my digi picture is beautiful.

Fate or luck of the draw I guess.
 

asteven221

Standard Member
a quick update on things. I am getting a replacenment Sammy tomorrow and I will let the forum know the results. Comet have been very good over this incidently so I have no complaints about their service.
 

steggy

Active Member
Whilst fiddling around I noticed the RGB/PAL setting on my Sky box, so I set it to RGB to see what happened. To be honest I didn't see any obvious difference but then again I wasn't really looking carefully, but as you suggest I will keep it on the RGB setting.

When you change from PAL to RGB you should notice a difference straight away. By this I mean as soon as you change the setting it takes effect, it doesnt wait for you to save it.

Have you got the sky box plugged into the first scart socket?

In my experience LCD's arnt very good for Games unless they have a very quick response time. My work PC monitor is 18ms (I think) and is no good for playing first person shooters unless you like half life 2 with trippy bluring in the 60s style.
 

asteven221

Standard Member
This is the latest and hopefully final chapter. I got the replacement, but when the delivery guys brought it out the lorry I could see that the box was crushed a bit. Still if the telly works who cares I thought. The new telly was installed and the dodgy one taken away. When plugging in the scarts etc... I noticed that there was a large 10" crack in the cover at the back. Still I wasn't bothered - as long as it works. On switching on I felt the colour was a bit dodgy so I messed around with the setting to get something that looked okay. After a day or two I noticed that the screen was flickering and collapsing slightly. Also the geometry would change intermittantly. It was obviously faulty and probably been dropped. Back to Comet who were aplogetic and without any hassle arranged another one for me. At this point I really thought it was a jinx and I should buy an LCD, however spending another £300 put me off plus they're not without problems it seems, and in any case my first Sammy CRT did actually display a superb picture when it wasn't buzzing or having a sliding faces fit. Anyway, the second replacement arrived yesterday and to be honest it's not much different to the first one other than it buzzes less and the faces problem is maybe, just maybe a bit better.
The bottom line is that I can't be bothered worrying about it anymore and the Sammy is staying - sliding faces and all. I would definately suggest that for the money this telly is very good and it is difficult to believe, notwithstanding the sliding faces problem, yer average punter or even a slightly more discerning average punter could complain about the overall picture quality. On DVD through HDMI it's better than anything I've seen before. Sure it's a wee bit out of focus on sky ticker tape messages at the edges, but that's irrelevant in normal programs. Maybe gamers might have an issue with that, but it shouldn't bother non gamers. I will report back if anything significant happens, otherwise I am pretty happy overall. Comet have been very good incidentally and the second faulty telly was just one of these things that could happen to any retailer.
 

2nd Coming

Active Member
This is the latest and hopefully final chapter. I got the replacement, but when the delivery guys brought it out the lorry I could see that the box was crushed a bit. Still if the telly works who cares I thought. The new telly was installed and the dodgy one taken away. When plugging in the scarts etc... I noticed that there was a large 10" crack in the cover at the back. Still I wasn't bothered - as long as it works. On switching on I felt the colour was a bit dodgy so I messed around with the setting to get something that looked okay. After a day or two I noticed that the screen was flickering and collapsing slightly. Also the geometry would change intermittantly. It was obviously faulty and probably been dropped. Back to Comet who were aplogetic and without any hassle arranged another one for me. At this point I really thought it was a jinx and I should buy an LCD, however spending another £300 put me off plus they're not without problems it seems, and in any case my first Sammy CRT did actually display a superb picture when it wasn't buzzing or having a sliding faces fit. Anyway, the second replacement arrived yesterday and to be honest it's not much different to the first one other than it buzzes less and the faces problem is maybe, just maybe a bit better.
The bottom line is that I can't be bothered worrying about it anymore and the Sammy is staying - sliding faces and all. I would definately suggest that for the money this telly is very good and it is difficult to believe, notwithstanding the sliding faces problem, yer average punter or even a slightly more discerning average punter could complain about the overall picture quality. On DVD through HDMI it's better than anything I've seen before. Sure it's a wee bit out of focus on sky ticker tape messages at the edges, but that's irrelevant in normal programs. Maybe gamers might have an issue with that, but it shouldn't bother non gamers. I will report back if anything significant happens, otherwise I am pretty happy overall. Comet have been very good incidentally and the second faulty telly was just one of these things that could happen to any retailer.
Fairplay on the perseverance mate:thumbsup:

Had my 409 for a couple of months now,the picture is better than ever.It seems i was one of the lucky ones ,i have never even had to go int the service menu,just played with sharpness etc.This almost completely sorted the sliding faces issue.(although it does happen to a degree on certain sky channels).

Enjoy
 
D

dancewav

Guest
I've got a replacement arriving tomorrow, my main issue is the buzzing, if this replacement buzzes i'll keep it and get the engineer out again to fix it ,its a known problem and samsung have supplied them with a solvent type thing to fix it , so if your 409 buzzes , call samsung and they'll send someone round with a fix :rolleyes:
 

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