Samsung Q7F - poor motion handling

Discussion in 'What Is The Best TV For You?' started by cs2008, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. cs2008

    cs2008
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    I have recently purchased a QE49Q7F and although the picture itself is very good, I find it is plagued by terrible motion judder. Fast pans or fast moving end credits cause very pronounced juddering. No amount of tweaking the motion settings (or switching the Auto Motion off) seems to make any difference. Actually, it changes the character of the judder, but doesn't get rid of it. Often, it will suddenly 'jump' at the beginning of a moving sequence, as if it is late to catch up, or has dropped a frame.

    I had originally bought the UE49MU8000 which had the same problem, and returned it to the retailer to exchange it. I thought that the 50Hz refresh rate was the culprit, and that the 100Hz refresh rate of the Q7F would cure it, but it didn't.

    Is this problem common with Samsung TVs, and are other brands any better ?
     
  2. Dodgexander

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    Most TVs have a motion complaint, be it stutter or judder. In Samsungs case people have been talking about their TVs having micro stutter for years now.

    You may find you notice it less with a different brand, but you may also find you notice their motion issues more. Best thing would be to return the TV if you aren't happy and demo some of your own content on different TVs before you buy to get a good idea of what to expect.

    It has to be said too, that a lot of motion problems can actually be at the source too, so you should be sure your source devices aren't contributing to the issue, Sky Q for example has lots of complaints.

    But you may be thinking, well why didn't I notice this judder on my old TV? Well, possibly your old TV didn't share a problem with your sources and judder like the new one, it doesn't necessarily mean the sources are free of problems, sometimes a combination of a source and a TV can mean there is a problem.

    It may also be possible that your old TV too had problems with motion, just not as noticeable to you.

    I wrote a lot about motion here: Explanation and Best Buys for the Motion sensitive 2017 Edition
     
  3. cs2008

    cs2008
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    Thanks Dodge.

    When I viewed the Q7F in the store (Richer Sounds), it looked OK, but they could only feed their TVs from a Sky HD box, not an aerial. I don't have the option of Sky, and have to use Freeview.

    My old TV is an 8 year old 40" Sony LCD TV (with CCFL backlight), and that doesn't seem to produce any judder. I suppose the smaller screen will make judder less obvious, even if it is present.
     
  4. zeppelino

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  5. cs2008

    cs2008
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    Yes, I have 'Auto update' switched on, and when I did an 'Update now' it reported that no new updates were available.

    I have also found that the judder seems worse when watching SD channels. There are some channels I occasionally watch which are SD only on Freeview (eg. More4), so there isn't always the option of switching to the HD equivalent.
     
  6. zeppelino

    zeppelino
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    Samsung can be slow to put updates out over the air so I’d double check the firmware on their site.

    I have noticed issues with SD content and just put it down to the scaling. The processor is working overtime to scale the content - i even notice in some documentaries when they switch between HD and SD pans, it does judder a tad.
     
  7. andym81

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    I have the ks 7000 which is basically a q7 from 2016 and it suffers from the same problem.
    Watching freeview is the worst, it start to stutter then all of a Sudan race to catch back up to itself.

    I did think they will ever fix it so you'll have to live with it unfortunately
     
  8. cs2008

    cs2008
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    OK thanks. I think it will have to go back in that case. Richer Sounds will be very annoyed as it will be the second TV I have bought from them and then rejected. Anecdotally, it would appear that the new Sony TVs are good for motion handling (Eg. XF series).
     
  9. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Its common for the TV to have "hiccups" when the broadcasters change feeds. A good example of this is when you watch match of the day and they send an interlaced flag always with the program yet the replays and studio coverage is progressive instead.

    Another one is advert breaks.

    Another common thing is motion judder caused by mistakes in film detection, for example you play an old American TV show that was originally broadcasted at 30fps displaying in the UK as 25fps or a film on TV displaying at 25fps when it was originally filmed at 24fps.

    The TV will be scanning not just the hz of the program but also trying to work out if it needs to deinterlace and/or remove cadence.

    As I said, all TVs do it to a degree and have their own complaints. You may be happy with another TV but you'll need to demo content you notice it with to be sure, which is easier said than done of course.

    Older TVs didn't have all this fancy motion detection stuff, in turn they didn't change refresh rate and had "constant" judder with some sources instead. It is unfortunately the bane of having intelligent TVs that these mistakes happen. Back when a TV only refreshed at 50hz in the UK it wasn't a problem at all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  10. cs2008

    cs2008
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    Interestingly, the Gadget Show last night had a feature comparing 3 TVs for watching sport. (It was a World Cup themed show).

    They had a Hisense something, a Sony XF90 and a Samsung Q9F, all quite big screens (55 or 65 inch). They then recorded some footage of the presenters kicking a ball around and played in back on each TV. The Hisense had a mediocre picture and very bad motion handling. The Sony was excellent, great picture and perfectly smooth motion. But the shocker was the Q9F, which although gave a good picture, had very poor motion with judder and blurring exactly as I see on the Q7F. They found that turning up the de-judder control reduces the judder, but just gives a blurry mess.

    So it seems that even Samsung's flagship TV is still hopeless for motion.
     
  11. zeppelino

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    Yet the review on this site found no issues.

    Return your set and move on with your life.
     
  12. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    The problem with the new QLEDs as reported by Vincent is when you use clear motion. eg Dark frame insertion. At least as far as I know.
     
  13. cs2008

    cs2008
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    Yes I did try the DFI setting, but that just made the image dark and flickery. It didn't have any effect on the juddering or blurring. Presumably, the TV isn't handling the frame rate conversion correctly from 24/25/30fps up to 50 or 100fps. Maybe the Sky HD box does this internally, so the TV doesn't have to, thus avoiding judder.
     
  14. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    TVs have 120hz panels that can also adjust in increments beneath that, so there is a lot of detection going on. Especially when external boxes like Sky output a fixed refresh rate when they are showing different content. eg 50hz during 25hz, 24hz, 29hz and 50hz.
     
  15. marvinandroid85

    marvinandroid85
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    Dear everyone, I have recently purchased a 55 Q7F.
    As of now, I'm really struggling with setting on Netflix. Main problem is with juddering, whereas I found Amazon Prime stream to be flawless. What's your experience so far?
    Thank you
     
  16. zeppelino

    zeppelino
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    Set Auto Motion plus to custom and leave the sliders at zero - tweak the de-judder one if still an issue.
     

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