Samsung PS51F85000 3D Plasma TV Review

[Tech News]

Reviewed by Mark Hodgkinson, 21st June 2013. The Samsung PS51F8500 is big and beautiful as well as smart and supremely capable of producing stunning pictures. What’s not to like? Frankly, we can’t think of anything significant! Highly Recommended.
Read the full review...

 

[cooknl]

Mark,

Thanx for a super review, I looked thru the whole review but could not find
the Firmware version number of the unit you tested.

Reason I ask is the floating black seem to have been fixed with the US firmware 1103 which fixed the poping briteness in the hockey whites.

Beings that you noticed the floating blacks as the US reviewers did, most people did not mention floating blacks after the 1103 firmware update, is why I am wondering which firmware the unit had.
BTW it seems like France and a few other country's now have the 1103 firmware update available for OTA installation.
When it comes out for the UK will you be able to reevaluate the floating blacks with the newer firmware??

Thx
Rob

 

[hodg100]

Hi Rob

F/W version is 1102 which is the latest available here at the moment.

If Samsung release 1103 before it has to go back, I will of course re-evaluate the floating blacks but the TV wont be here with me much longer.

I've not seen a hint of brightness pops with this TV and it's been used as my main one for about two weeks.

All the best

Mark

 

[cooknl]

Thx Mark,
Great stuff I hope that within a few days the 1103 software will be online so u can still give it a quick look.
Thanks for the quick reply.

Rob

 

[mattmeer]

When you described the Samsung as having a cleaner look compared to the Panasonic 50VT60 delivering a more analog look, does that mean the Panasonic VT60 has a bit more "texture" in the images?

 

[Soopermario]

Do I understand right, that ANSI Black with BO at dark room measured 0,006cd ?

 

[pioneer 1985]

Mark,

Thanx for a super review, I looked thru the whole review but could not find
the Firmware version number of the unit you tested.

Reason I ask is the floating black seem to have been fixed with the US firmware 1103 which fixed the poping briteness in the hockey whites.

Beings that you noticed the floating blacks as the US reviewers did, most people did not mention floating blacks after the 1103 firmware update, is why I am wondering which firmware the unit had.
BTW it seems like France and a few other country's now have the 1103 firmware update available for OTA installation.
When it comes out for the UK will you be able to reevaluate the floating blacks with the newer firmware??

Thx
Rob

do you know if the brightness pop fix is being applied to the rest of the plasma range like the f5500 ?

 

[pioneer 1985]

apparently firmware 1103 is available over the air.

 

[Nick74]

Do I understand right, that ANSI Black with BO at dark room measured 0,006cd ?

I'm guessing this reading wouldn't be reliable, since MLL is unstable using the Black Optimiser feature. (At least that's my understanding.) Obviously that's not a criticism of the review; rather a reflection of how the TV behaves with Black Optimiser engaged.

 

[Nick74]

^^^^
Reading the review again, 0.0061 wasn't an ANSI reading anyway.

 

[Soopermario]

Normaly MLL rises on Samsung Plasmas at a specific APL. It's about double the blacklevel when it happens. Every other review of the F8500 show a blacklevel of 0,012cd - 0,018cd on ANSI with BO at darkroom. My question was for clarification. I'm trying to understand the behaviour of the BO in relation to APL and through firmware changes.

The rise in blacklevel is because of the subfield driving algorithm. On the F-series we should have 3 different blacklevels.
ANSI black readings are mostly higher because of light that travels from the white squares through the glass into the black squares. Only on the ZT60/65 there is no light that shines into the black squares.

From the text of the review here it sounds like that with BO at darkroom the fullfield black of 0,006cd stays at ANSI. That would be strange.

 

[mattmeer]

Is the input lag for games that bad? Plasma tv's with higher input lag are usually still easier to play with then LCDs, despite the input lag. The review sounds like it is quite unplayable with games, though it is only 55ms, which should be about 2 frames of lag? Is there any hope of future firmware versions decreasing this lag?

 

[hodg100]

When you described the Samsung as having a cleaner look compared to the Panasonic 50VT60 delivering a more analog look, does that mean the Panasonic VT60 has a bit more "texture" in the images?

Yes, that's a good interpretation.

Do I understand right, that ANSI Black with BO at dark room measured 0,006cd ?

No, ANSI measured the same with BO on and off.

apparently firmware 1103 is available over the air.

I don't seem to be able to get it.

From the text of the review here it sounds like that with BO at darkroom the fullfield black of 0,006cd stays at ANSI. That would be strange.

I'm not sure if I'm reading you right here but the text says:

"With Optimiser set to ‘Dark Room’, On/Off Contrast = 20,164:1, going up to 36,885:1 if you max out the Cell Light. With Optimiser off, On/Off Contrast = 6,060:1, maxing out at 11,363:1 if you can stand it. ANSI contrast figures are identical at 5,447:1.

Steve found the same with the 64 - i.e. ANSI black level is the same regardless of BO settings and they're a bit higher on the 51 than the 64".

Above that I did say neither full field nor ASNI was the complete story when BO was engaged too.

 

[johnegpf]

Hi

Nice review, just curious how power hungry this set is?

I have a Pioneer 428XD still has a stunning picture( especially in SD ) but fancy a bigger screen.


John

 

[Soopermario]

Thank's Mark for the clarification. So the 51 behave like the 64, that's I want to hear.

Now after reading the part you quoted again it's clear to me. The part that confused me about BO was earlier in the text, right before this part with the contrast numbers.

 

[johnegpf]

Many thanks for updating the review with regard to power consumption.

will check out the set in JL later in the week

John

 

[Scooby2000]

Great review sir!

the faint line you and others mention, same/similar to the Panasonic VBI last year?

Comparing the bigger F8500 to a VT65 though a great set the extra top end seemed to be at the loss of some mid level contrast and richness compared to the VT, did you find the same? A little hard to describe what I was noticing, just a slight lack of depth.

 

[stucarblne]

What i heard is that the VT/ZT looks well, just a bit - flat - in comparison to the F8500

Certainly can't comment on it lacking depth as it wasn't the impression i got when i saw one.

Not Kuro depth impression, but not bad at all.

Seeing a "new gen" Pana nearer the end of the week

 

[hodg100]

Great review sir!

the faint line you and others mention, same/similar to the Panasonic VBI last year?

Comparing the bigger F8500 to a VT65 though a great set the extra top end seemed to be at the loss of some mid level contrast and richness compared to the VT, did you find the same? A little hard to describe what I was noticing, just a slight lack of depth.

Yes Gary but running horizontally instead of vertically. It's so small an issue I contemplated not mentioning it all but you're a demanding lot.

What i heard is that the VT/ZT looks well, just a bit - flat - in comparison to the F8500

Certainly can't comment on it lacking depth as it wasn't the impression i got when i saw one.

Not Kuro depth impression, but not bad at all.

Seeing a "new gen" Pana nearer the end of the week

I think it's entirely dependent on room lighting.

In an ideal world, at this time of year, I would have the 8500 up until 9.30pm whereupon the Butler would perform a quick changeover to one of the 2013 Panasonic's.

 

[stucarblne]

Looking forward to seeing this new Panasonic.

But tbh i am not expecting it to be as good as last years VT50 in anything, except for tiny black tweak.

 

[mattmeer]

ANSI black levels is what you are seeing most of the time, right?

During "mixed" scenes... The 51 inch samsung f8500 has black levels during an ANSI chart comparable to last year's VT50 range (also during the ansi chart). The 64 inch samsung has ANSI black levels somewhere in between the VT50 and VT60. Last year the VT50 was the reference and had very good black levels, so the black levels of the samsung are certainly quite good, but not reference.

I compared the numbers in an excel sheet for this lol

 

[hodg100]

No, they're not really. The ANSI pattern we (and most) use is 50 per cent apl. It's thought that most films average just below 30 but then you start t running in to difficulties with gamma if you use a pattern where white isn't 100 per cent.

The real thing to remember here is that with BO on dark room, the blacks float, meaning they lose some impact.

 

[Soopermario]

The MLL response on Samsung plasmas is not easy to understand.
See here for more information:
Patterns to measure MLL as a function of APL

 

[hodg100]

Yeah, it's pretty dynamic and more so this year.

 

[frankly]

Hi, I read on most fora that the F8500 is the one to beat in bright rooms.
The most seen comparison is with the VT60/65, but how does the 51F8500 compare on overall image (not features etc) to the P50GT60. If it is as close as the VT60/65 at 1250 euro less (in The Netherlands they sell for 2699,00 and the GT for 1350 euros), it would be an even closer call. So ca anybody comment on this?