Samsung NU8000 Owners Thread

40 on backlight....for dim-room SDR viewing?

My eyeballs would burn out....:eek::eek::eek:

LOL yes!
But remember that the 49'' inch is "small", so less light overall.
Now it's 20 - 40 depending in ambient light.

Mentioning this because it's interesting that the more I tweak, the closer I get to the recommended settings. ;)
 
LOL yes!
But remember that the 49'' inch is "small", so less light overall.
Now it's 20 - 40 depending in ambient light.

Mentioning this because it's interesting that the more I tweak, the closer I get to the recommended settings. ;)

Still....o_O

Higher backlight values are fine for casual bright room viewing environments; heck, I keep my NU's Cable Box input (HDMI 1) in Standard picture mode with most everything on default, so most adjustments are high (contrast, backlight, et al).

I would recommend the more subdued suggestions for backlight (11 and a bit higher) for dim/dark room serious film viewing (in Movie mode).
 
Thanks, I will connect it tomorrow.
I had to go in the router browser settings, it was using 2.4 so changed it to 5. Immediately a big difference. Wired it as well after that and only a small improvement on top.
But as you said, it comes up to 2160 pretty quickly.
I will check again at a quieter time with hopefully less traffic.
Thanks Foster:thumbsup:
 
I just sometimes feel bad because QA makes it SO personal and hate-endowed (especially when he supposedly rubbed it in 4K Upscaler's face that he had just "shagged" his wife because Upscaler is supposedly unmarried; I mean, that was just so ridiculous) and I know what that feels like, having been the victim of much of that myself.

He is just good at pushing people's buttons. Again, he will be doing it for the controversy.

Indeed; I dropped the brightness to -2 before the rental we watched last night, the Welsh thriller The Lighthouse, and I was STILL getting grey-ish blacks in certain scenes...I couldn't believe it, but I didn't feel comfortable dropping it to -3, so I think I'm just going to return it to 0 and live with it. :mad:

I think I mentioned before, but the discs don't tell the TV to make the letterboxes black; they tell it there isn't any info for those pixels...so the TV just makes them "below black".

But any light on the actual image will cause them to be less deep in colour.

Yes, but that's what I'm saying...that would make the difference, most likely, in the "more than decent blacks" you're seeing and I'm not (you didn't say those exact words, I was just paraphrasing)...

Maybe, but the ambient light is very minimal. Far less than from something like a bias light or indeed any light source in the room.

It's less even than the "night light" setting on my Phillips HUE bulbs.

The thing that's mainly stopping me with regard to the bias lighting kit is that some have said it really takes you out of the film you're watching in the dark...like it becomes too distracting, even more so than the poor blacks of this set...:confused::mad:

I can see why some people would think that.

But I have seen it in action and after a few minutes you don't notice it any more.

But let me put it this way: Compared to an edge-lit set, wouldn't a GOOD, well-rated FALD panel like, say, from Sony, definitely be better than what I'm seeing now?

Nope. You saw yourself on that Sony thread that it looks very similar to how the NU performs.

And the XF is considered THE step up from the NU series. If you have more budget than the NU, you get the Sony, if you have more budget again you get an OLED.

But the Sony performs very similarly to the NU.
 
I had to go in the router browser settings, it was using 2.4 so changed it to 5. Immediately a big difference. Wired it as well after that and only a small improvement on top.
But as you said, it comes up to 2160 pretty quickly.
I will check again at a quieter time with hopefully less traffic.
Thanks Foster:thumbsup:

If it is possible to keep it wired, I'd keep it wired.

You will get a consistent connection, not effected by wireless interference from other wireless signals, etc.
 
He is just good at pushing people's buttons. Again, he will be doing it for the controversy.

He probably is doing that (pushing people's buttons), but I still say the duel between them was very cruel, on a multitude of levels.

I think I mentioned before, but the discs don't tell the TV to make the letterboxes black; they tell it there isn't any info for those pixels...so the TV just makes them "below black".

But any light on the actual image will cause them to be less deep in colour.

I was always under the impression that the disc players "created" the letterboxing areas on those scope films; at any rate, I don't really know what's going on with my panel, other than the undeniable fact that the blacks don't seem to be getting any darker in the letterbox areas no matter how low I drop the brightness...I have returned it to "0" for now.

I've never seen a brightness/black level control as quirky as the one on this Samsung; my previous display, a Sony SXRD rear projection system, made it obvious that some kind of shadow detail crush or raise was going on depending on how you moved the control from its classic Sony default setting of "50." According to the setup discs I ran on that thing, the value of "53" was correct for obtaining correct shadow detail information (based on pluge patterns).

With the Samsung, the range of "-5" to "+5" is strange enough for black level control IMO, and moving this slider doesn't really seem to do much of anything when going to the "-" side...

Maybe, but the ambient light is very minimal. Far less than from something like a bias light or indeed any light source in the room.

It's less even than the "night light" setting on my Phillips HUE bulbs.

I don't know; I'm getting light bleed with SDR material with the backlight set to "11" -- but it IS definitely better than when it was at "24," no doubt.

I can see why some people would think that.

But I have seen it in action and after a few minutes you don't notice it any more.

I'll consider one still then.

Nope. You saw yourself on that Sony thread that it looks very similar to how the NU performs.

And the XF is considered THE step up from the NU series. If you have more budget than the NU, you get the Sony, if you have more budget again you get an OLED.

But the Sony performs very similarly to the NU.

I simply can't believe this; what about moving up to something BEYOND the XF? There is absolutely NO FALD Sony that will out-perform the NU in the dark?
 
Believe it. I've seen that Sony in action many times (my brother has one ;) ) and regarding global dimming and blacks, it's quite similar to the NU.
Both are LCD tvs, same technology, same problems unfortunately...
 
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Any of you got any quick tips for connecting a ps4 and any settings I need to change either on console or tv? Is it straight into hdmi port 1 or is one of the others dedicated for games?
It's just a ps4 slim, not 4k but I believe it has hdr
Thanks
 
Believe it. I've seen that Sony in action many times (my brother has one ;) ) and regarding global dimming and blacks, it's quite similar to the NU.
Both are LCD tvs, same technology, same problems unfortunately...

I'm having a hard time believing an edge-lit set performs the same as a FALD...sure, it's still LCD tech, but the light delivery system (and dimming algorithms) can't really be compared. From my perspective, ANYTHING has to be better than the NU8000...
 
Any of you got any quick tips for connecting a ps4 and any settings I need to change either on console or tv? Is it straight into hdmi port 1 or is one of the others dedicated for games?
It's just a ps4 slim, not 4k but I believe it has hdr
Thanks

Nope, doesn't have to be a specific HDMI port.

Plug it in to any HDMI you want, but then go into the settings and make sure that UHD colour is enabled for that HDMI port; that way you will get HDR. :smashin:

Other than that, the TV will auto detect that it is a console and apply game mode automatically.
 
Thanks Foster.
I have one more question then I promise I'll go back to lurking!
My tv came with a Samsung sound bar. I've had a quick try but not set it up properly yet.
When I connected via Bluetooth it worked well, decent sound and no lag but I did notice that the normal standard tv remote didn't operate the volume properly. The sound bar remote worked fine.
Would using an optical cable or even a 3.5 aux fix this?
 
Thanks Foster.
I have one more question then I promise I'll go back to lurking!
My tv came with a Samsung sound bar. I've had a quick try but not set it up properly yet.
When I connected via Bluetooth it worked well, decent sound and no lag but I did notice that the normal standard tv remote didn't operate the volume properly. The sound bar remote worked fine.
Would using an optical cable or even a 3.5 aux fix this?

You would need to use a HDMI cable and enable HDMI-CEC in order to control it with the TV's remote.

Sound would then be handled via ARC. Assuming the sound bar is ARC compatible.
 
With the Samsung, the range of "-5" to "+5" is strange enough for black level control IMO, and moving this slider doesn't really seem to do much of anything when going to the "-" side...

Because the "Brightness" control on the Samsungs doesn't control black levels in the same way as other TVs.

Rather than adjust the black level directly, it changes the near-black gamma curve instead. So it makes the dark shades darker, without adjusting the bright shades.

Sounds great in theory; but when trying to improve dark room performance, because the bright parts aren't any darker, there is still the potential for light bleed if the bright element is bright enough.

I don't know; I'm getting light bleed with SDR material with the backlight set to "11" -- but it IS definitely better than when it was at "24," no doubt.

I don't get light bleed until the backlight is at about 13-14.

I simply can't believe this; what about moving up to something BEYOND the XF?

There is the ZF Master Series; but for the price of one of those at 65", you can pick up a 65" LG C8 OLED.

There is absolutely NO FALD Sony that will out-perform the NU in the dark?
I'm having a hard time believing an edge-lit set performs the same as a FALD...sure, it's still LCD tech, but the light delivery system (and dimming algorithms) can't really be compared. From my perspective, ANYTHING has to be better than the NU8000...

They are actually remarkably similar.
  • Edge lit system has the lights along one or more edges, with filters on the front to create dimming zones.
  • FALD systems use the same filters, but the difference is that the LEDs are directly behind the screen and arranged to create more zones.
From a technical stand point, with test patterns etc, this creates a much higher dynamic contrast.

In real world use however, this isn't the case, because the filters are the same; if you have a bright element next to a dark section, the filter will still not be enough to block the light bleed from the bright section...as you saw on the pictures in the Sony thread.

The difference seems bigger on paper due to the technical test data and seems better in anecdotes due to what I like to call "buyers bias". "Buyers bias" is a placebo whereby you think something is performing better than it is or better than a competing model, because you paid more money for it, etc, etc.

The issue with newer TVs, HDR or not, is NOT how dark they go...but rather that they get far brighter than old TVs. Dimming systems were created to try and get around this issue, but are a very imperfect system regardless of which is implemented. Because neither is capable of effectively countering the heightened brightness of newer TVs; and this is getting worse as more and more TVs try to get brighter to provide better HDR.
 
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The latest Sony fald, the XG95, has reviewed poorly. Just look at the review on here - 7/10
 
The 65 inch zf9 can be had for 1299, john lewis was one store which has it. Was even cheaper at Hughes with voucher code but not sure if they sold out. don't think a 65 C8 can be bought for anywhere close to that.

The XF9005 dimming works nothing like my Q7.

The issue with edge lit is if the light element is next to a dark element and its to the north of the TV screen then it just doesn't illuminate around this object, it illuminates the whole column, Samsung try to get round this by lowering the overall brightness of the image resulting in a loss of specular detail. The Sony, whilst having issues blooming around the object it still has control over the the other zones resulting in a much brighter image

cheers
 
The latest Sony fald, the XG95, has reviewed poorly. Just look at the review on here - 7/10

Looking at some reviews of it now...
 
What's really weird is that in the FlatpanelsHD review of the XG95, they mention the ideal picture modes are "GRAPHICS" and "PERSONAL"...this is the first time I've heard of any review moving away from "Cinema Home" or "Cinema Pro" or perhaps "Custom":

Sony X950G (XG95) review - FlatpanelsHD
 
And, indeed, this website didn't give great marks to the 95, as noted (reading the review now)...what concerned me even more was that I'd probably be back right where I started regarding the black bars with HDR content, evidenced by these statements:

HDR performance is also decent in terms of peak brightness and colour reproduction but the major let down, for us anyway, is the light leakage into the black bars of movies in HDR mode, something that shouldn’t happen at all. Dolby Vision content, for the majority of the time, looks decent but cinema mode can still look a little too dark compared to offboard Dolby sources and the HDR10 version, with some black posterisation, is still an issue.

If Sony could fix the black bar issues with HDR content we would be handing out a Highly recommended badge right now, but sadly the issue was so distracting on this retail sourced set that it pulled us out of the movies we were trying to watch and became a major distraction.

And here's what kicked me in the balls the hardest, being that Foster and I have been talking bias lighting for awhile now:

No amount of bias lighting in a dark room could fix the issue, which is down to poor engineering of the backlight.
 
The 65 inch zf9 can be had for 1299, john lewis was one store which has it. Was even cheaper at Hughes with voucher code but not sure if they sold out. don't think a 65 C8 can be bought for anywhere close to that.

The XF9005 dimming works nothing like my Q7.

The issue with edge lit is if the light element is next to a dark element and its to the north of the TV screen then it just doesn't illuminate around this object, it illuminates the whole column, Samsung try to get round this by lowering the overall brightness of the image resulting in a loss of specular detail. The Sony, whilst having issues blooming around the object it still has control over the the other zones resulting in a much brighter image

cheers

Looking at some reviews of the ZF9 now, Chopples; this model is discontinued, no?

Even if it wasn't, as part of Sony's MASTER series, I don't think we'd be able to swing it, budget wise...

Interesting that the reviewer from this site mentions that certain picture presets have been removed on these newer Sonys, such as Cinema Home and Cinema Pro -- instead, there's Cinema and Custom (Custom was always available on Sony displays and projectors, dating back to the A2020 SXRD rear projection television I owned).

Here's the review:

Sony ZF9 (KD-65ZF9) Review

This was something that always prevented me from considering a new Sony to replace my NU8000 with, even though I owned one before the Samsung -- the fact that there were so many damn picture modes to choose from, with many of them sounding like they could be accurate. Custom...Cinema Pro...Cinema Home...Cinema et al....I say bollocks. Just give us an accurate "cinema" mode and perhaps a couple of non-accurate modes such as Standard or Dynamic for brightly-lit, non-serious environments...

That was one thing I liked about the Samsungs: You choose from Standard, Dynamic, Natural or Movie presets. That's it. Honestly, I think they could have left out the redundant "Natural" mode, as there's still Standard and Dynamic to choose from...

I prefer my choices to be easier, and if the newer Sonys have eliminated a bunch of picture modes in their menu systems, that's better for me; I hope it's down to Cinema or Custom. Judging by what I've seen via videos and online reviews, there are plenty of other sections of the Sony setup menus that are confusing enough -- I mean, why do they even have a section to set up Brightness, Black Level, Color, etc. when in the next section they lump the SAME controls under a "BRIGHTNESS" heading and just repeat them? That never made any sense to me; in the plus column, I always thought the switch to "Black Level" instead of calling this "Brightness" was logical, but they should have called the Backlight level control just that -- Backlight, instead of Brightness...
 
Because the "Brightness" control on the Samsungs doesn't control black levels in the same way as other TVs.

Rather than adjust the black level directly, it changes the near-black gamma curve instead. So it makes the dark shades darker, without adjusting the bright shades.

Sounds great in theory; but when trying to improve dark room performance, because the bright parts aren't any darker, there is still the potential for light bleed if the bright element is bright enough.

I do believe you mentioned this before, and I think I saw this mentioned in one of Vincent's reviews of the new Sammys...

So are you saying that by me lowering this control (brightness), I'm not really going to be getting rid of that "bleeding light into the letterbox bars" problem?

I don't get light bleed until the backlight is at about 13-14.

I think you checked this for me on your NU, as well; I'm seeing some bleed, depending on the scene in a film, with the backlight on 11 (with SDR content) but it's not nearly as bad as when viewing HDR, of course.

Do you recommend continuing to keep the backlight on 11? You came to that number based on light/luminescence measurements to reach a certain value in a dark room...but should I turn this up being that a higher luminescence doesn't bother me (just the raised black levels)?

There is the ZF Master Series; but for the price of one of those at 65", you can pick up a 65" LG C8 OLED.

I see; and the C8 is what level in the OLED lineup?

They are actually remarkably similar.
  • Edge lit system has the lights along one or more edges, with filters on the front to create dimming zones.
  • FALD systems use the same filters, but the difference is that the LEDs are directly behind the screen and arranged to create more zones.
From a technical stand point, with test patterns etc, this creates a much higher dynamic contrast.

In real world use however, this isn't the case, because the filters are the same; if you have a bright element next to a dark section, the filter will still not be enough to block the light bleed from the bright section...as you saw on the pictures in the Sony thread.

The difference seems bigger on paper due to the technical test data and seems better in anecdotes due to what I like to call "buyers bias". "Buyers bias" is a placebo whereby you think something is performing better than it is or better than a competing model, because you paid more money for it, etc, etc.

The issue with newer TVs, HDR or not, is NOT how dark they go...but rather that they get far brighter than old TVs. Dimming systems were created to try and get around this issue, but are a very imperfect system regardless of which is implemented. Because neither is capable of effectively countering the heightened brightness of newer TVs; and this is getting worse as more and more TVs try to get brighter to provide better HDR.

Then why does every site and posts in enthusiast forums like this one talk about FALD being far superior to edge lit? Seems like if you can't afford an OLED, EVERYONE says turn to a FALD and it will knock an edge lit out of the park...
 
Edit
 
In what way do you mean?

The xf90 dimming system actually does a job and increases contrast performance.

Regarding the zf9 I didn't think it was discontinued as it only launched last autumn? This set isn't without its own issues anyway, namely poor contrast due to the wide angle filter.

Cheers
 
The xf90 dimming system actually does a job and increases contrast performance.

Regarding the zf9 I didn't think it was discontinued as it only launched last autumn? This set isn't without its own issues anyway, namely poor contrast due to the wide angle filter.

Cheers

The initial master series were replaced this spring. The ZF9 was a stunning failure and dropped in price like a stone.

As for fald v edge lit, implementation is key. You can get an LG fald but it’s contrast is woeful and algorithm is poor. The Sony XE93 is edge lit but performs better than most fald sets.
 
The initial master series were replaced this spring. The ZF9 was a stunning failure and dropped in price like a stone.

Replaced with what? the ZG9 is an 8k set no? My understanding was both the ZF9 and XF90 are still being produced by Sony, both are active on there website with no indication it had been discontinued. Have you got a source?

As for fald v edge lit, implementation is key. You can get an LG fald but it’s contrast is woeful and algorithm is poor. The Sony XE93 is edge lit but performs better than most fald sets.

Agree and the XE93 was an exception, the backlight drive system was unique and nothing like the bottom edge lit design Samsung has been using for a number of years.

The poor contrast performance kind of killed the ZF9 but its dimming system is sufficient enough to get the contrast up to semi respectable figures, it does have exceptional colour performance and is very very bright, other features such as EARC, Dolby Vision etc... does make this an interesting option for a 65 inch set at £1299 imo but I only mentioned it originally as its price was being to compared to the C8, was just pointing out it is quite a bit cheaper.

cheers
 

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