Samsung NU8000 Owners Thread

That is an interesting discussion. But let me share my thoughts.

The collection of HDR content available, does not fully utilize much of even the base format of 1000nits. With many titles such as mad max only providing short durations of luminance that exceed the max brightness of most HDR displays. This is not a coincidence and not the full representation of the potential from HDR. With knowledge of photometry it is easy to understand where and how important the luminosity of the format and display output is. We live and breath light on a daily basis (unless you live in a cave somewhere haha) and any change in this is noticable. And can shift the visual clarity and enjoyment of nearly any environment. If we want to capture and reproduce the natural environment we live in and to recreate them to a realistic and impactful gradation that provides to some degree the same level of satisfaction as if you were there. Then the capture and reproduction must function as close as possible to the lighting characterisitics of that which it is taken from.

The sun itself is in excess of 100,000 nits. The moon is between 1000-2500 nits. An average cloudy sky around 2000nits. A typical photographic scene in full sunlight is 5000nits.

Now most of these are extreme examples of lighting conditions, which do not represent what we really require for good visual reproduction. Especially since one of them, would hurt your eyes for even just a short duration. And also does not take into account the light and dark compensation of the retina in our eyes. This same compensation that during the day your 1000nit phone display looks fine, but at night when woken up and looking at the same screen. Trying to not be blinded by having to squint to reduce the light reaching your eyes. But then gradually easing over time as the retina adapts.

However when a 60w standard incandescent light fixture and a photographic scene in overcast both reach at and in excess of 1000nits. There is obviously a visual benefit of some degree to meeting this level of luminance. Which represents a very common and typical lighting characteristic seen in a day to day and typical filming locations.

Moving on to how this relates to current technology and content today. And its potential for the future.

Some of the best TVs today, can only reach roughly between 600 - 700 nits of full scene brightness. Even with local dimming only barely scraping 1000 nits in very limited windows. This ultimately places a limit on what the ideal HDR processing is used. It is in the best interest to develop content to suit todays current technology rather than future proofing it. This is because of the issues with tone mapping and limited luminance output from current technology. Mastering content at higher luminance places more work on the tone mapping system and ultimately degrades the image the further this difference is.

With regard to the tone mapping systems. This is ultimately needed for when content does and will continue breaching our current technology. Which over time will get higher. There are certainly content available now that does so and will cause the signal to be processed by the transfer function of the display. Many EOTF functions begin compressing their signals around 400 - 500 nits. Including the panasonics HDR optimizer. So anything breaching this, will be going through the tone mapping system in order to prevent irreparable clipping damage.

End of the day, tone mapping is your friend right now. It works, its needed and in the future, will be even more important for older displays as HDR content gets scaled up to match the current display technology as it progresses.

Sir... As someone who seems to know a lot... You wouldn;t be so kind as to give me HALF A CLUE about this would you? Backlight MAXIMUM for HDR? Having a laugh??
 

Foster1984

Well-known Member

Foster1984

Well-known Member
Wow, crazy to se this specific TV thread is still on the go years after release. I assume it is regarded as one of the best value for money buys?

I'd say it is.

It isn't perfect, and there are shortcomings; but you can't really get better performance without stepping up quite a bit in terms of price/budget.
 

LCD HD

Active Member
Backlight to full allows the screen to display maximum HDR highlights.
If a scene doesn't need that much light, dimming kicks in lowering backligh. So in actual backlight changes from scene to scene ;-)

If you watch in darkness and really don't want maximum HDR brightness, I suggest you use ECO mode. Just set a comfortable night viewing value there, like 15.
ECO will reduce the HDR effect but you still get more punch than SDR, with very good blacks.
 
Backlight to full allows the screen to display maximum HDR highlights.
If a scene doesn't need that much light, dimming kicks in lowering backligh. So in actual backlight changes from scene to scene ;-)

If you watch in darkness and really don't want maximum HDR brightness, I suggest you use ECO mode. Just set a comfortable night viewing value there, like 15.
ECO will reduce the HDR effect but you still get more punch than SDR, with very good blacks.

Great stuff thank you vey much
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Had a weird thing happen the other night that never occurred before...

I was on the "splash screen" for a little while (that blue screen with the "sparkly effects" which turns on for a specific input, reading "HDMI 2 - Blu-ray NO SIGNAL" or whatever may be connected), and my NU turned itself off completely. This NEVER happened before.

All the settings that could possibly be related to this in the TV have been turned off -- Eco Solution, Auto Power Off, Energy Save Mode, etc. -- and I am not using the HDMI-CEC function.

Is it normal for the TV to turn off after sitting on a splash screen for awhile, or was this a weird glitch? Even though all the power saving settings are turned off, does it not matter if that splash screen is up for some time?

For reference, this is the screen I'm referring to (not my actual TV):

1614630147184.png
 
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IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Just bumpin' this thread to see if anyone else has had their TV automatically shut down on them when they've been on the splash screen too long...
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Never tested it, but seems like a normal behavior.
The TV is idle, there's no input, so it shuts down. Makes sense to me.
But all my settings to control this -- the Eco Solutions, Auto Power Off, etc. -- are turned OFF; are you saying this would happen no matter what these were set to? It's just a "sitting idle" thing with these panels?
 

Foster1984

Well-known Member
IIRC, if left on a splash screen, mine will eventually change to a black screen with "Samsung" bouncing around it; as a screensaver. But if left further, I'm pretty sure it does eventually turn off, though I can't remember how long each step takes. This is with all power saving settings turned off.

I'll test tonight after SWMBO goes to bed, just to be sure though.

Out of curiosity, is there a particular reason you wouldn't want the TV to turn off if it was left unused for an extended period of time?
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
IIRC, if left on a splash screen, mine will eventually change to a black screen with "Samsung" bouncing around it; as a screensaver. But if left further, I'm pretty sure it does eventually turn off, though I can't remember how long each step takes. This is with all power saving settings turned off.

I'll test tonight after SWMBO goes to bed, just to be sure though.
Thanks; I do not have a Samsung screen saver on mine that engages after any amount of time, so I don't know if that's just a U.S./UK thing. On my set, if I idle too long on the settings menu, for instance, the TV will go back to the home bar, then that will disappear and the screen will be on that "splash" page that shows the input information (as in my picture).

It was at THIS point that the TV shut down on me after just a few minutes, so I am wondering if this was a glitch.
Out of curiosity, is there a particular reason you wouldn't want the TV to turn off if it was left unused for an extended period of time?
Because from time to time, I do "system settings checks" on all my gear, from the display to the receiver to the player, to make sure all settings are right and haven't been changed in any way. I need to stay on the settings menu of the NU8000 when I do these checks, and if I idle too long on one of them, the TV kicks me out and sends me back to the aforementioned screens/pages.

In this particular case, I was, for some reason (probably babbling with my wife), sitting on that "No Signal" page for a little while, and the TV suddenly shut down.

This is the exact thing I cannot STAND about my Panasonic Blu-ray player -- it has this automatic turnoff feature after 20 minutes of sitting idle that you cannot override. It's a ridiculous thing not to be able to control, and even though Panasonic has promised endlessly now that there should be a firmware update to correct this, we haven't seen it.

I'm all for saving energy and the planet, but for God's sake, it should be left on OUR hands to control when it comes to electronics.
 

Foster1984

Well-known Member
Thanks; I do not have a Samsung screen saver on mine that engages after any amount of time, so I don't know if that's just a U.S./UK thing. On my set, if I idle too long on the settings menu, for instance, the TV will go back to the home bar, then that will disappear and the screen will be on that "splash" page that shows the input information (as in my picture).

It was at THIS point that the TV shut down on me after just a few minutes, so I am wondering if this was a glitch.

Might be a US/UK-EU difference then. But I'll test later to check for sure.

It is definitely more than a few minutes on my NU though.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
It is definitely more than a few minutes on my NU though.
This is why I'm thinking it was a glitch...

As an aside: Remember when I brought up that issue I was having with the remote not allowing me to switch inputs along the bottom from time to time? I thought it was maybe the factory battery I was using for the years I have the TV, so I switched it out...everything seemed okay for a bit, but, alas, it did the same thing the other night (wouldn't allow me to scroll over to change the input icons at the bottom of the screen, forcing me to wait until the splash screen arrived and start over again).

At this point -- as you and I have discussed in the past -- I'm beginning to think this WAS a defective panel from the factory (especially given the amount of times the repair people had to come to fix that input identification issue).
 

Foster1984

Well-known Member
This is why I'm thinking it was a glitch...

So it took about 45 mins, but it did turn itself off.

So whilst turning itself off does appear to be normal behaviour; it shouldn't be doing it after just a few minutes.

At this point -- as you and I have discussed in the past -- I'm beginning to think this WAS a defective panel from the factory (especially given the amount of times the repair people had to come to fix that input identification issue).

I agree. With the amount of issues you have had with it, and it's general performance relative to the average performance of others, I'd be astounded if it wasn't from a poor batch. :( Unfortunately, there is no way to know for sure though; we can only compare subjectively.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
So it took about 45 mins, but it did turn itself off.

So whilst turning itself off does appear to be normal behaviour; it shouldn't be doing it after just a few minutes.



I agree. With the amount of issues you have had with it, and it's general performance relative to the average performance of others, I'd be astounded if it wasn't from a poor batch. :( Unfortunately, there is no way to know for sure though; we can only compare subjectively.
Thanks brother.

To be honest, I don't think it was only a few minutes, but I really don't think it was quite 45 minutes. I don't know anymore...

Gonna have to start saving up for that better display. I appreciate you taking the time to experiment for me.

Here's what I want to know, though: Why should the display turn of AT ALL if all the power saving protocols are disabled? The ONLY thing that should affect this is that setting in the General menus that controls the overall timeout countdown (usually set for like six or so hours, I think); why would it shut off just by idling on the splash screen for under an hour?
 
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LCD HD

Active Member
My guess is that it shuts down to save panel life.
Panels wear out over time (spots appear, backlight becomes uneven, etc).
I've seen reports of these defects starting to appear after only 2 or 3 years on many panels.

So to me it's logical that the panel would try to protect itself.

For the sake of discussion :

Imagine that you are away for two weeks and forget to shut down the TV.
Two weeks amount to 336 hours (24h x 14d) of work. Average LED LCD panel life is 50,000 hours*.
So on two weeks you waste about 1% of panel life.
But if you have a bad panel that only lasts 20000 hours in total, you waste 2%...
This is considering total panel failure, but defects start to appear much sooner.


* How Long Does a Monitor Last? (Surprising!)
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
My guess is that it shuts down to save panel life.
Panels wear out over time (spots appear, backlight becomes uneven, etc).
I've seen reports of these defects starting to appear after only 2 or 3 years on many panels.

So to me it's logical that the panel would try to protect itself.
But there are already settings inside the panel to protect itself -- notably the setting in the General menu area that controls long-term energy consumption (which I actually leave ON; I think this is for like six or nine hours, something like that).
 

Foster1984

Well-known Member
Gonna have to start saving up for that better display. I appreciate you taking the time to experiment for me.

Just make sure it is an OLED. ;)

Here's what I want to know, though: Why should the display turn of AT ALL if all the power saving protocols are disabled? The ONLY thing that should affect this is that setting in the General menus that controls the overall timeout countdown (usually set for like six or so hours, I think); why would it shut off just by idling on the splash screen for under an hour?

Because if it has been on a "No signal" input for that length of time, there isn't really any reasons why the average user wouldn't want it to turn itself off.

If a TV has been sat on "no input" for 45 mins, without any remote buttons being pressed, then it is logical to assume that the TV is not in use and can therefore turn itself off.

So whilst I understand your reason for wanting it to stay on, it is pretty uncommon reason, one that the vast majority of people don't have any such use for; and as we have previously discussed, Samsung tend to set their TVs up in a way that caters to the masses, rather than niche use cases.
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Just make sure it is an OLED. ;)
Probably only going to be able to afford a nice FALD; I am convinced that ANYTHING is better than what I'm seeing in the dark environment with HDR.
Because if it has been on a "No signal" input for that length of time, there isn't really any reasons why the average user wouldn't want it to turn itself off.

If a TV has been sat on "no input" for 45 mins, without any remote buttons being pressed, then it is logical to assume that the TV is not in use and can therefore turn itself off.

So whilst I understand your reason for wanting it to stay on, it is pretty uncommon reason, one that the vast majority of people don't have any such use for; and as we have previously discussed, Samsung tend to set their TVs up in a way that caters to the masses, rather than niche use cases.
I understand all that -- and I'm not really arguing for the display sitting idle on a screen for hours and hours (that would be an extreme example). What I'm saying is, if ALL those energy saving-related features are disengaged, it really shouldn't turn off until that time runs out as controlled by that "master energy" setting (I can't recall what it is called offhand; it's in one of the General menus).

Either way, something isn't normal because I wasn't sitting on that screen for 45 minutes, as you reported in your test, and it shut off on me...
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
Okay -- I found the setting I was referring to. It's actually the AUTO PROTECTION TIME, as seen in the SYSTEM MANAGER area of the menu:

1614986544104.png


That setting allows for a "master control" of sorts over how long the screen can sit without shutting down, but it's a really long time, if I'm not mistaken; I keep this ON, but I wasn't sitting there for the six or nine hours this setting keeps the TV on for...

Do you see what I mean?
 

IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
I think the default here is for TWO HOURS, but unless I'm mistaken, I think my NU was set to something longer...

1614986775213.png


1614986790129.png
 

Foster1984

Well-known Member
Probably only going to be able to afford a nice FALD; I am convinced that ANYTHING is better than what I'm seeing in the dark environment with HDR.

It will be better, as I'm pretty sure your NU isn't even matching the standard of regular edge lit sets.

But I think the level of performance you are after, is only achieveable from an OLED.

I understand all that -- and I'm not really arguing for the display sitting idle on a screen for hours and hours (that would be an extreme example). What I'm saying is, if ALL those energy saving-related features are disengaged, it really shouldn't turn off until that time runs out as controlled by that "master energy" setting (I can't recall what it is called offhand; it's in one of the General menus).

Either way, something isn't normal because I wasn't sitting on that screen for 45 minutes, as you reported in your test, and it shut off on me...
Okay -- I found the setting I was referring to. It's actually the AUTO PROTECTION TIME, as seen in the SYSTEM MANAGER area of the menu:

That setting allows for a "master control" of sorts over how long the screen can sit without shutting down, but it's a really long time, if I'm not mistaken; I keep this ON, but I wasn't sitting there for the six or nine hours this setting keeps the TV on for...

Do you see what I mean?
I think the default here is for TWO HOURS, but unless I'm mistaken, I think my NU was set to something longer...

"Auto Protection Time" is not a 'master energy' control, it doesn't even turn off the TV, it is just the time it takes before the TV displays a screen saver. For example, if you have selected 2 hours for the "Auto Protection Time", if the TV detects the same image on the TV for 2 hours the TV will enable a Screen Burn Protection. This also only works when it detects a still image on the screen.

I get this sometimes if I go out, but leave Netflix playing. As it will get to the "Are you still watching" screen, and after it has been on this screen for 2 hours, it will start showing the Samsung screensaver I mentioned in my previous post. It is just the word Samsung bouncing around the screen.

"Auto Power Off" in the "Eco Solution" settings is what powers off the TV, if there is no operation (button presses) for 4 hours. This occurs whether the image is still or moving, as it is based purely on whether the TV has been operated within that 4 hour window. If active, this works in conjunction with "Auto Protection Time", if both are turned on. E.G. the screen saver would come on after 2 hours, and then 2 hours later the TV would turn off.

Crucially to what we are discussing, both of these functions only activate when the TV detects an input; either from a HDMI cable, internal app or cable/aerial.

If there is no input detected, the TV turns itself off after 45 minutes; unless it is operated or sent a signal within that time frame.

I tested this out again by pulling the aerial out the back of my TV, after 45 minutes of the TV signal not being detected and me not touching the remote...the NU turned itself off. When I plugged the aerial back in and didn't touch the remote, the NU just continued to show TV and didn't turn off; same for the HDMI input.

I couldn't replicate this using stremaing apps, as they are always detected as an active input.
 
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IntelliVolume

Well-known Member
It will be better, as I'm pretty sure your NU isn't even matching the standard of regular edge lit sets.
I'm not convinced that when contrast, backlight and local dimming are MAXED OUT on these edge lit panels when watching HDR content in a dark room that there's ZERO light bleed in letterbox areas of scope material. I can't be the ONLY one seeing this.

Almost by default design, these types of panels must bleed because there's simply not enough dimming zones or ways of dealing with the fluctuating levels via technology (i.e. not genuine local dimming implementation); it's incomprehensible to me that no one else is seeing this with edge lit sets in a totally dark room.
But I think the level of performance you are after, is only achieveable from an OLED.
Perhaps; I will have to see how things shake out for mini and micro LED...I just saw a review some bloke did on a new Samsung QLED with mini LED tech, and he wasn't thrilled about it.
"Auto Protection Time" is not a 'master energy' control, it doesn't even turn off the TV, it is just the time it takes before the TV displays a screen saver. For example, if you have selected 2 hours for the "Auto Protection Time", if the TV detects the same image on the TV for 2 hours the TV will enable a Screen Burn Protection. This also only works when it detects a still image on the screen.

I get this sometimes if I go out, but leave Netflix playing. As it will get to the "Are you still watching" screen, and after it has been on this screen for 2 hours, it will start showing the Samsung screensaver I mentioned in my previous post. It is just the word Samsung bouncing around the screen.

"Auto Power Off" in the "Eco Solution" settings is what powers off the TV, if there is no operation (button presses) for 4 hours. This occurs whether the image is still or moving, as it is based purely on whether the TV has been operated within that 4 hour window. If active, this works in conjunction with "Auto Protection Time", if both are turned on. E.G. the screen saver would come on after 2 hours, and then 2 hours later the TV would turn off.

Crucially to what we are discussing, both of these functions only activate when the TV detects an input; either from a HDMI cable, internal app or cable/aerial.

If there is no input detected, the TV turns itself off after 45 minutes; unless it is operated or sent a signal within that time frame.

I tested this out again by pulling the aerial out the back of my TV, after 45 minutes of the TV signal not being detected and me not touching the remote...the NU turned itself off. When I plugged the aerial back in and didn't touch the remote, the NU just continued to show TV and didn't turn off; same for the HDMI input.

I couldn't replicate this using stremaing apps, as they are always detected as an active input.
I'll have to look further into this; all I know is that it wasn't quite 45 minutes before the TV shut off on me while I was on the "No Signal" splash screen.
 

Foster1984

Well-known Member
I'm not convinced that when contrast, backlight and local dimming are MAXED OUT on these edge lit panels when watching HDR content in a dark room that there's ZERO light bleed in letterbox areas of scope material. I can't be the ONLY one seeing this.

Some people do see it; but as we have discussed previously most people do not view in a dark room, or are just not as critical of their TV, etc.

But as I, and others on here, have said we can only see some light bleed on our NUs when we take pictures of the TV, but this is to be expected since the camera sensor is far more sensitive than people's eyes. Even on most of the pictures I have provided in the past, none to very minimal light bleed could be seen.

Whether this is because we have better than average sets, or because those that complain have worse than average sets, we will never know whithout the ability to cross check them.

On very select content, I can get see some very minor bloom, but this bloom is from, the content into the letterboxes; not from the bezel into the letterboxes. E.G. if a very bright object within the scene is next to the letterbox area.

This issue is even present in OLED, if the content is bright enough for the eye to percieve light spilling over.

Almost by default design, these types of panels must bleed because there's simply not enough dimming zones or ways of dealing with the fluctuating levels via technology (i.e. not genuine local dimming implementation); it's incomprehensible to me that no one else is seeing this with edge lit sets in a totally dark room.

Because it depends on how it is implemented within the set, we have discussed in the past that some edge-lit sets have been noted as outperforming FALD sets.

So whilst as a general rule, FALD does outperform edge-lit. They all have to be considered on a set by set basis.

Much in the same manner that the NU still performs better than the RU & TU ranges, despite the "advancements" in the technology.

Perhaps; I will have to see how things shake out for mini and micro LED...I just saw a review some bloke did on a new Samsung QLED with mini LED tech, and he wasn't thrilled about it.

New TV tech normally has a lot of teething problems; I don't expect this to mature until the 2nd generation, thats when we might see something special.

But it will still suffer if they really try and push the brightness.
 

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