Samsung LCDs - the problems with upscaling

msephton

Active Member
I've recently bought a Samsung LE32R41BD and am sending it back.

I'm shocked at how bad the upscaling is on the TV. Everything that isn't HD is scaled up to the native resolution of the panel, as we all know. Other TVs I have seen cope with this OK, but on the Samsung: colours bleed together, ghosting occurs around high contrast areas and small details are lost.

Basically, the upscaling algorithm in the Samsung is flawed. I've called them and their tech team are calling me back. I am not hopeful though. What are they going to do for me? Write a better upscaling algorithm for the firmware? Not enough people are worried by this problem it seems as it's only really noticeable in content with flat colours (interactive content, cartoon animation, games) and not to as much of an extent whilst watching TV or DVD.

I have a test case that will show this every time if you have the integrated digital tuner. Simply view any interactive TV MHEG page (eg. Q music channel or BBi). This is generated digitally by the TV itself (the TV receives a description of the app/page and - much like a web browser - renders it to the screen).

On the Samsung, text in Interactive TV is surrounded by a blur or halo of colour. Green text is green text but with a green haze around it. See this photo.

I can upscale an image in Photoshop using a variety of settings and not encounter any ghosting, colour bleed or such a loss of definition as seen on the Samsung.

Looking at another TV, a Bravia, none of this degradation of image quality occurs - see this photo.

Can owners of other LCD sets possibly let me know what happens on their sets. Photos welcome!

Thanks,
matt
 

mjw123

Active Member
Matt,

The Sony pic to me looks worse overall......maybe not as much bleed but other aspects are poor. Look at the ghosting on the white letters.

I'm afraid like all LCD's if you look hard enough you'll find fault.

Mike.
 

msephton

Active Member
These are mobile phone photos, take my word for it that the Sony was a better picture even over composite signal. The Samsung was running RGB SCART.
 

bluevortex

Active Member
i have the LE26R51 and have to say i don't suffer from this? in general most channels produce a good picture? When i looked at this screen in demo at comet i noticed this but put it down to a poor feed. How good is the aerial that you are using for freeview? I upgraded mine and its produces nice pictures even on analogue TV

Blue
 
Matt, like me, you expected too much for the price. I too returned the Samsung LE32R41B for various reasons. It's a budget LCD.

What model of Sony Bravia did you compare this to? I agree with Mike about the ringing around the letters.
 

bluevortex

Active Member
Lyris said:
Matt, like me, you expected too much for the price. I too returned the Samsung LE32R41B for various reasons. It's a budget LCD..

I would hardly call £600+ for 26" LCD budget. Okay it doesn't compete with Sony and Panasonics but its far from being classed as a budget screen. Surely that is reserved for dual and the like??
 

msephton

Active Member
bluevortex said:
i have the LE26R51 and have to say i don't suffer from this? in general most channels produce a good picture? When i looked at this screen in demo at comet i noticed this but put it down to a poor feed. How good is the aerial that you are using for freeview? I upgraded mine and its produces nice pictures even on analogue TV
How does your picture look when doing the Interactive Content test? My picture is fine, it's the finder details that are bad.

Lyris said:
What model of Sony Bravia did you compare this to? I agree with Mike about the ringing around the letters.
Not sure which model.

What TV did you go for in the end?

matt
 
I would hardly call £600+ for 26" LCD budget. Okay it doesn't compete with Sony and Panasonics but its far from being classed as a budget screen. Surely that is reserved for dual and the like??
True, I wasn't thinking about those. It's still developing technology, though - I consider 600 pounds for a 26" LCD seeing as I'm about to buy a Sony Bravia 26" that costs precisely double that.

Oh, and Matt, I went back to my Sony KLV-26HG2 (non HD-Ready 2004 LCD WEGA model). I'm just about to let it go for a Sony Bravia KDL-V26A12U.
 

bluevortex

Active Member
There was no way i was allowed to spend anymore money on the bedroom LCD. The samsung was a little over my original budget. If i had my my way i would have bought the 26LXD500 :D
Still im happy with what i got - atleast it seems to be problem free, touch wood, so far!
 

Tempest

Distinguished Member
Does not look too bad to me.

Well, I went onto that "Q" Music channel on my new 37" toshiba and looked at the green text.

Here's some photo's (sorry a little out of focus, but camera struggles in the low light)

text-1.jpg


text-2.jpg


text-3.jpg


I think this is WAY worse than your pics.

I have purple in between the green letters and if you look in 3rd photo there is blue between the yellow letters.

Note, if anyone else has the 37" Toshiba, is your's the same as this?

It's channel 716 on digital freeview
 

mr-monday

Active Member
Could we use this screen as a sort of bench mark for the various LCDs out there? Not very scientific I know, but easily reproducable for a lot of people.

Might be worth a sticky.
 

msephton

Active Member
Thanks for these first pictures.

Not quite glad but puzzled to see other brands affected in slightly different ways.

Any more?
 

mrm3

Active Member
msephton said:
Looking at another TV, a Bravia, none of this degradation of image quality occurs - see this photo.

Can owners of other LCD sets possibly let me know what happens on their sets. Photos welcome!

Thanks,
matt
Looks like the comparison pics with the bravia are different resolutions? Good to try like with like.
 

mrm3

Active Member
msephton said:
They were both HDready resolution

Excellent. Clear as mud. Is the actual resolutions the same on both? HD Ready is not really a resolution TBH. I was expecting something like they are both 1280x720 or 1366x768.

In the clearer image DSC00008.JPG representing the Bravia the green text ('Press green..') is alot wider than in the other image DSC00011.JPG (samsung). Looks to me very confusing and the resolutions are not the same. Just my 2p worth.
 

msephton

Active Member
mrm3 said:
Excellent. Clear as mud. Is the actual resolutions the same on both? HD Ready is not really a resolution TBH. I was expecting something like they are both 1280x720 or 1366x768.

In the clearer image DSC00008.JPG representing the Bravia the green text ('Press green..') is alot wider than in the other image DSC00011.JPG (samsung). Looks to me very confusing and the resolutions are not the same. Just my 2p worth.
What's with the attitude?

They were both 1366 x 768 pixels. The two images are mobile phone photos and were taken by hand. You'd have liked me to use a tripod, I suppose?

If you're in any doubt I invite you to go to any store stocking LCD TVs with built in Freeview and try it for yourself.
 

greyhorse

Standard Member
Lyris said:
True, I wasn't thinking about those. It's still developing technology, though - I consider 600 pounds for a 26" LCD seeing as I'm about to buy a Sony Bravia 26" that costs precisely double that.

Oh, and Matt, I went back to my Sony KLV-26HG2 (non HD-Ready 2004 LCD WEGA model). I'm just about to let it go for a Sony Bravia KDL-V26A12U.

Did you think the V series was really worth that much more than the S ?

When fed a HD feed I didnt think there was a lot between it?

Your views without hi-jacking the thread.:lease:
 
Apparently the Vs have better panels than the S series. On top of that they're more convenient to use as they store video settings per input rather than one change affecting all of the inputs.

That said you're probably right, 720p HD stuff is a lot easier for even the most basic screens to handle so I don't think there'll be too much in it.
 

bojaka

Standard Member
Does not look too bad to me.

Well, I went onto that "Q" Music channel on my new 37" toshiba and looked at the green text.

Here's some photo's (sorry a little out of focus, but camera struggles in the low light)

text-1.jpg


text-2.jpg


text-3.jpg


I think this is WAY worse than your pics.

I have purple in between the green letters and if you look in 3rd photo there is blue between the yellow letters.

Note, if anyone else has the 37" Toshiba, is your's the same as this?

It's channel 716 on digital freeview

Well...

Having a 40" Samsung LE40B655 which is used as monitor for my PC. It's connected via DVI-D > HDMI and I get these strange artifacts around black text on bright background:

before_HDMI_Black_Level.jpg


After changing the HDMI Black Level on my TV I manage to get this result:

after_HDMI_Black_Level.jpg


But that's how far I have come. Anyone have some suggestions how I should be able to solve this problem. It hurts my eyes to read alot of text.
Maybe I should use a DVI-D > VGA cable instead???

Anyway...

I'm running a NVIDIA 8800GT and the resolution is set to the TV's native resolution of 1920x1080, so this should not have to do with some effects of upscaling... Right!?

Best regards // BoJaKa

EDIT: Ha ha... Solved it!!! Choose picture mode - Dynamic on the TV and turn HDMI Black Level back o Normal. Turn SHARPNESS way down to ZERO and voila... If you had the same artifacts as I did they should be gone now! =D
Finally I can read text without hurting my eyes!

Over and out!
 
Last edited:

Phunky

Active Member
Wish i could get this to work for me :( i hate the glow that text seems to have.
 

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