Samsung F8500 (PS64F8500) 64 Inch 1080p 3D Plasma TV Review

In defence of Scooby, of course black levels are important, as I said on the review that's why dynamic range and black levels are at the top of our scoring criteria. However I do agree that we shouldn't get too hung up on measurements, although having said that 0.013 against 0.004 is a big margin.

This is the point thanks Steve, you can't just go by measurements, not when the numbers are very small, the difference here though is quite big and noticeable by eye hence my disappointment.
0.007 on an Ansi would be ok if the rest of the picture is as good or better, 0.013 though good is nothing like the Panasonics sadly. For some other areas may be more important, I myself took a hit going from a GT30 to a D6900 but it was worth it for less issues. If the Panasonics this year are improved as people say then for me such a difference in black level my clinch it for me, 60ms lag also makes an F8500 purchase unlikely for me.

Steve, you say Samsung are looking into the black level, any chance they'll get a lower usable black level of around 0.007? not sure if they can change how the sets driven or something. If they did the F8500 could still be sneaky option if the VT dissapoints me when I demo.
 
I dont remember, just that you said it ;-), i wouldn't be to worried about blacks though as Steve said they are 'Excellent'.

I've worried about good blacks since my PX80 disappointed and miss the black level of my V20, the GT30 wasn't far off but not as deep. Also the series 9 kuro I had a demo of was deeper than the VT20 that was next to it.
 
In the 'pro's' column you said it has excellent black levels and shadow detail, was this gauged from previous Samsung blacks and how would they appear in comparison with my D6900 ?.

Did you spot any of the Samsung brightness pops ie on brighter white scenes with sky etc when the camera pans up or down/ side to side the picture pops in short jumps of brightness ?. I see you had cell at 20 and contrast 90, this would certainly make the pops much more noticeable on previous Samsung PDP's and indeed my own. Its hard to spot with BD and 2.35:1 aspect content and mainly on general full screen tv.

I agree that 120 cdm is a tad bright for a plasma that's in a room with subdued lighting or bias lit, but initial rumours a while back suggested this set was going to be as bright as LCD, with settings of max cell light and 90 contrast =120 cdm I don't think this can be the case is it ?.

Lastly are the samsungs still better in regards to the regards 'Panansonic PDP Flicker'?

I definitely think that the blacks would appear better when compared to your D6900. As far brightness pops go, as I said in the review I didn't experience any with the PS64F8500 but then I also didn't see any on the PS64E8000 I reviewed, although admittedly that was the only Samsung plasma I did last year.

I think the PS64F8500 is one of the brightness plasmas I've seen, especially considering the screen size, mind you it obviously draws a hell of a lot of juice in terms of energy consumption. I think the claims of being brighter than a LCD TV can be put down to marketing hype. Mind you I defy any TV, LCD or otherwise, to look brighter in 3D!

I'm not susceptible to flicker so I'm not the best person to ask, Mark is our resident 'flicker expert'.
 
Steve, you say Samsung are looking into the black level, any chance they'll get a lower usable black level of around 0.007?

No I didn't say that, I just said I was going to ask them exactly how the Black Optimiser is supposed to work, since the explanation in the manual is typically vague.
 
In your opinion which delivers a better 3D experience, the VT65 or the F8500?.

Reading the VT65 review i see that there is very minimal crosstalk, but from your review of the F8500, it seems that there is none. Am i missing something (since the Vt65 scored reference regarding 3D) or is the F8500 indeed a little bit better?

I didn't review the VT65 but based on my experiences with the GT60 I would say there is nothing to separate the two, both deliver an absolutely superb 3D performance with bright images, great motion handling and no crosstalk. As always I'd strongly recommend demoing both the VT65 and F8500 before parting with your hard earned cash.
 
No I didn't say that, I just said I was going to ask them exactly how the Black Optimiser is supposed to work, since the explanation in the manual is typically vague.

Sorry remembered wrong:facepalm: any ideas what the optermiser is doing and if it could effect ansi?
 
I didn't review the VT65 but based on my experiences with the GT60 I would say there is nothing to separate the two, both deliver an absolutely superb 3D performance with bright images, great motion handling and no crosstalk. As always I'd strongly recommend demoing both the VT65 and F8500 before parting with your hard earned cash.

Yes think Ill still demo both sets before buying, hope to see a side by side.:)
 
"Sadly its a bit of a let down for me:( great light output but black level is more important to me. I was hoping this would be an alternative to the VT65, sadly its more ST60?"

From what i've read elsewhere, i think comparing the ST60 contrast ratio with this samsung will be doing the panasonic an injustice. We will have to wait and see...

Great review as usual, shame it hasn't lived up to its promise, as i am actually quite fond of the look of this tv...
 
Which of this or the 65F8000 you would go for if you had to choose, something I need to do in the next few weeks.

The Smart Hub and camera mean I want a new Samsung, not a Panasonic, and while I like the idea of the 75" it's just too expensive. So at 65"s it's either this or the F8000. Thoughts?
 
Which of this or the 65F8000 you would go for if you had to choose, something I need to do in the next few weeks.

The Smart Hub and camera mean I want a new Samsung, not a Panasonic, and while I like the idea of the 75" it's just too expensive. So at 65"s it's either this or the F8000. Thoughts?

Seen an F8000 and apart from the look of the thing didn't like it at all, wasn't impressed. Prefer the picture on my D6900, viewing angle and uniformity on the F8000 wasn't great.
 
Which of this or the 65F8000 you would go for if you had to choose, something I need to do in the next few weeks. The Smart Hub and camera mean I want a new Samsung, not a Panasonic, and while I like the idea of the 75" it's just too expensive. So at 65"s it's either this or the F8000. Thoughts?

I'd definitely go for the F8500, partly because I have a preference for plasma but also because I love the design and the overall performance is excellent.
 
Was there any hint of IR on this TV with it being bright?
 
Was there any hint of IR on this TV with it being bright?

As I said in the review I had some slight IR when calibrating, where I had patterns up for a long time but I haven't seen any IR with normal viewing material, even when watching BBC News 24 for long periods of time.
 
If it's true that you got 120cd with Cell at 20 and Contrast at 90 in Moviemode, than maybe there is something wrong. There were reports from owners and other people who had also a dimm looking set in comparison with the reports of LED-brightness levels. On one report the rather dimm picture was cured after a factory reset.
I suggest you try this and measure again, maybe black is getting better too. With your above settings you should get around 160cd.
Also if the UK and the German version share the same firmware like on earlier Modells the actual firmware version is 1002 on the german one. You wrote 0818 as version, that sounds very different.
 
As I said in the review I had some slight IR when calibrating, where I had patterns up for a long time but I haven't seen any IR with normal viewing material, even when watching BBC News 24 for long periods of time.

Did you have more or less ir with VT65 and GT60?
 
On one report the rather dimm picture was cured after a factory reset. I suggest you try this and measure again, maybe black is getting better too.

Unfortunately the F8500 has already been collected by Samsung.

Did you have more or less ir with VT65 and GT60?

I didn't see any IR at all on the GT60 but I didn't review the VT65.
 
This is turning into a game of firmware Top Trumps!

Well you've stumbled on to something there. TV Top Trumps. Lowest black level reading, max luminance, color accuracy rating, date of most recent fw update, price? Could be something to this...

Anyway, it would be interesting to know if the firmware for US/EU have different designations. I only mention it because the US update I refer to includes the following note:

- Picture quality is improved.

- Performance is improved.

- Some bugs is fixed. [sic]

Now I wonder if you reviewed a set with these supposed improvements.

I also found this odd as it's rare for any list of fixes, particularly from Samsung, to include anything at all to do with picture improvements. Presumably because it infers that the picture was deficient in some way before the fix. Not something they ever admit to, à la Fbr which has never been officially acknowledged.
 
You'd think that Samsung would ensure that when they send out a review sample it includes the latest firmware, especially if it relates to picture quality.
 

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