Samsung F8500 (PS64F8500) 64 Inch 1080p 3D Plasma TV Review

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Reviewed by Stephen Withers, 10th April 2013. There’s a lot to really like about Samsung’s new PS64F8500. It incorporates a striking design with a cutting edge Smart TV platform and the kind of big, bright and accurate images that we never thought we’d see from a plasma. If you’re looking for some of the best 2D and especially 3D pictures around
Read the full review...
 

vism

Well-known Member
Steve, did you find the black optimizer helped at all and did it cause additional problems?

If it is a dynamic contrast control, is there a level you can set white (say 70 cd/m2 for example) where you get a deeper black but no variation of the brightness when there are scene changes?
 

Plutotype

Standard Member
Hi,
thanks for the review, it looks like there is no major issue with F8500, but no revolution is happening.

1. Did you measure the ANSI with Black Optimizer ON or OFF please?
2. Did the TV buzz as hell or what was your experience with the piece you got?
3. Did you calibrate to 120cd/m2 or was there a room to push it more without white being washed out?

Thanks
Pluto
 

vaktmestern

Banned
Didnt have much fait in samsungs ugly duckling :cool: but that gaming lag shure proved me right :D
 

Steve Withers

Distinguished Member
Steve, did you find the black optimizer helped at all and did it cause additional problems?

If it is a dynamic contrast control, is there a level you can set white (say 70 cd/m2 for example) where you get a deeper black but no variation of the brightness when there are scene changes?

1. Did you measure the ANSI with Black Optimizer ON or OFF please?
2. Did the TV buzz as hell or what was your experience with the piece you got?
3. Did you calibrate to 120cd/m2 or was there a room to push it more without white being washed out?

The Black Optimiser has four settings, Off, Auto, Bright Room and Dark Room and in Off it measured 0.013, in Bright Room it measured 0.17 and in Dark Room it measured 0.007. Great I hear you say! Well not exactly because the ANSI measurements for both Off and Dark Room were identical and this was borne out by actual viewing because I really couldn't see any difference between the two settings when viewing actual content. So Black Optimiser worked with a 0 IRE screen but not much else, although I'm seeing Samsung tomorrow, so I'll see if they can explain exactly how it is supposed to work.

The buzz was very minor and you certainly couldn't hear it normally, unless as I said you put your head up at the back, which I assume isn't how you watch TV.

Yes I did calibrate it at 120cd/m2 but you could have pushed it a bit brighter if you wanted, although I think 120cd/m2 is quite bright for a 64" plasma TV.
 

Plutotype

Standard Member
The Black Optimiser has four settings, Off, Auto, Bright Room and Dark Room and in Off it measured 0.013, in Bright Room it measured 0.17 and in Dark Room it measured 0.007. Great I hear you say! Well not exactly because the ANSI measurements for both Off and Dark Room were identical and this was borne out by actual viewing because I really couldn't see any difference between the two settings when viewing actual content. So Black Optimiser worked with a 0 IRE screen but not much else, although I'm seeing Samsung tomorrow, so I'll see if they can explain exactly how it is supposed to work.

The buzz was very minor and you certainly couldn't hear it normally, unless as I said you put your head up at the back, which I assume isn't how you watch TV.

Yes I did calibrate it at 120cd/m2 but you could have pushed it a bit brighter if you wanted, although I think 120cd/m2 is quite bright for a 64" plasma TV.

Regarding Black Optimizer - I know, that from a calibrator standpoint it is a always double/triple work to test all new features and check what they bring when measurements are done ( it is actually an iterative process ). Other calibrators were also unsure if Black Optimizer is some kind of dynamic processing thing. Nobody wants to have fluctuating blacks only because we get better black candelas.

Panasonic rocks with blacks as usual, but according to the measured results the whites on Panasonic should look as "grey whites" when compared to F8500 whites. They go down to 69 cd/m2 on ANSI, while Samsung still comes out with 110cd/m2. Samsung a clear winner here.

Why no reference badge? Because of the blacks/contrast? :)
 

ROMAN38

Standard Member
Regarding Black Optimizer - I know, that from a calibrator standpoint it is a always double/triple work to test all new features and check what they bring when measurements are done ( it is actually an iterative process ). Other calibrators were also unsure if Black Optimizer is some kind of dynamic processing thing. Nobody wants to have fluctuating blacks only because we get better black candelas.

Panasonic rocks with blacks as usual, but according to the measured results the whites on Panasonic should look as "grey whites" when compared to F8500 whites. They go down to 69 cd/m2 on ANSI, while Samsung still comes out with 110cd/m2. Samsung a clear winner here.

Why no reference badge? Because of the blacks/contrast? :)
SET in Panas panel luminance to max and probably will be almost 100cd/m2.:smashin:
 

Starx

Standard Member
Regarding Black Optimizer - I know, that from a calibrator standpoint it is a always double/triple work to test all new features and check what they bring when measurements are done ( it is actually an iterative process ). Other calibrators were also unsure if Black Optimizer is some kind of dynamic processing thing. Nobody wants to have fluctuating blacks only because we get better black candelas.

Panasonic rocks with blacks as usual, but according to the measured results the whites on Panasonic should look as "grey whites" when compared to F8500 whites. They go down to 69 cd/m2 on ANSI, while Samsung still comes out with 110cd/m2. Samsung a clear winner here.

Why no reference badge? Because of the blacks/contrast? :)

It seems that 120cd/m^2 is close to peak brightness of F8500 on a 100IRE windowed pattern according to:

In terms of brightness, there was no question that the PS64F8500 could deliver, although to get 120 cd/m2 we did have to set the cell light to 20 and the contrast to 90

Samsung PS64F8500 Test Results | AVForums.com - UK Online

According to the post here they can get more brightness from VT65 on a 100IRE windowed pattern , I am not sure but probably it will impact also on the brightness in ANSI pattern contrast.

Sorry if my English is not good :)
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
Great review Steve.:smashin:

Sadly its a bit of a let down for me:( great light output but black level is more important to me. I was hoping this would be an alternative to the VT65, sadly its more ST60?
.013 is awful for me, 0.007 is good but not great and it seems pointless anyway sadly.
Also how much lag!?! That's horrific, how can it be so high with the naming trick?:confused: what processing is it leaving on to be higher than an LCD?.

Great that people with bright rooms can go plasma now but everything I've heard seems to sadly be true with this set. I'll still view one but think I now have a list of one! and its a Panasonic! not quite the year I was hoping for sadly.
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Great review Steve.:smashin:

Sadly its a bit of a let down for me:( great light output but black level is more important to me. I was hoping this would be an alternative to the VT65, sadly its more ST60?
.013 is awful for me, 0.007 is good but not great and it seems pointless anyway sadly.
Also how much lag!?! That's horrific, how can it be so high with the naming trick?:confused: what processing is it leaving on to be higher than an LCD?.

Great that people with bright rooms can go plasma now but everything I've heard seems to sadly be true with this set. I'll still view one but think I now have a list of one! and its a Panasonic! not quite the year I was hoping for sadly.

What was it you said yesterday ?, 'don't get hung up on black levels' lol :).
 

Steve Withers

Distinguished Member
What was it you said yesterday ?, 'don't get hung up on black levels' lol :).

In defence of Scooby, of course black levels are important, as I said on the review that's why dynamic range and black levels are at the top of our scoring criteria. However I do agree that we shouldn't get too hung up on measurements, although having said that 0.013 against 0.004 is a big margin.
 

Steve Withers

Distinguished Member
2Also how much lag!?! That's horrific, how can it be so high with the naming trick?:confused: what processing is it leaving on to be higher than an LCD?

There is clearly a lot of processing going on behind the scenes if I turn off everything, select Game Mode and rename to PC input and 60ms is still the best I can get.
 
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tomhd

Active Member
So, it seems that new Samsung is the best plasma Samsung ever made. Although its blacks are not as good as those on new Panasonic plasma are still excellent and there is no DFC at all which is pure advantage but it seems the only one advantage. Black optimizer seems to be gimmick because who watches 100% black screen to get reference black level. It's a pity because if it worked as it supposed to I'm sure that we would get another reference set.

P.S ANSI numbers are still confusing me, f.ex. peak white in VT65 which looks worst than GT60 and F8500. GT60 is a winner from those 3, am I right?
 

Steve Withers

Distinguished Member
ANSI numbers are still confusing me, f.ex. peak white in VT65 which looks worst than GT60 and F8500. GT60 is a winner from those 3, am I right?

Yes, based purely on the ANSI measurements the GT60 came out on top, although it was the smallest screen size, so that might have played a factor.
 

tomhd

Active Member
Thank you very much Steve. I understand now. Just last question for now:
do you know what's resolution of skype camera in VT?
 

Top_Cat

Active Member
Hi Steve, thanks for the review :smashin:

In your opinion which delivers a better 3D experience, the VT65 or the F8500?.

Reading the VT65 review i see that there is very minimal crosstalk, but from your review of the F8500, it seems that there is none. Am i missing something (since the Vt65 scored reference regarding 3D) or is the F8500 indeed a little bit better?

Thanks

Regards
 

Steve Withers

Distinguished Member
Do you know what's resolution of skype camera in VT?

I don't but I have a meeting with Panasonic's engineers soon, so I could find out then. I have to say the camera on the F8500 is excellent, I love using it to make Skype calls.
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
In defence of Scooby, of course black levels are important, as I said on the review that's why dynamic range and black levels are at the top of our scoring criteria. However I do agree that we shouldn't get too hung up on measurements, although having said that 0.013 against 0.004 is a big margin.

Hi Steve, I was of course just jesting with that remark, a couple of questions please,
In the 'pro's' column you said it has excellent black levels and shadow detail, was this gauged from previous Samsung blacks and how would they appear in comparison with my D6900 ?.

Did you spot any of the Samsung brightness pops ie on brighter white scenes with sky etc when the camera pans up or down/ side to side the picture pops in short jumps of brightness ?. I see you had cell at 20 and contrast 90, this would certainly make the pops much more noticeable on previous Samsung PDP's and indeed my own. Its hard to spot with BD and 2.35:1 aspect content and mainly on general full screen tv.

I agree that 120 cdm is a tad bright for a plasma that's in a room with subdued lighting or bias lit, but initial rumours a while back suggested this set was going to be as bright as LCD, with settings of max cell light and 90 contrast =120 cdm I don't think this can be the case is it ?.

Lastly are the samsungs still better in regards to the regards 'Panansonic PDP Flicker' ?.

Many thanks
Martin.
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Remind me;) was that about very small numbers? The difference here is quite big.

I dont remember, just that you said it ;-), i wouldn't be to worried about blacks though as Steve said they are 'Excellent'.
 

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