Samsung demonstrate dynamic metadata at CES 2017 - news discussion

The open standard SMPTE ST 2094 Dynamic Metadata for Color Volume Transform includes 4 different dynamic metadata methods "from Dolby, Philips, Technicolor, Samsung that are considered sufficiently different to make it impossible to rationalize into a single method": ST 2094-10 from Dolby, ST 2094-20 from Philips, ST 2094-30 from Technicolor, ST 2094-40 from Samsung.

A new dynamic metadata-based Dynamic HDR can include one of these four open standard SMPTE ST 2094-10/20/30/40 dynamic metadata display adaptations: ST 2084 + ST 2086 + ST 2094.

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For various reasons, the industry has created / will create different HDR formats which can provide a big picture quality jump from SDR.
For the consumer, at the end of the day, it is HDR content that matters most, not HDR content format.
A consumer-driven HDR TV shall be able to play any operational HDR content.

And different HDR formats are just different (HDR) software running on capable (i.e. powerful enough) TV System-on-Chip with 10-bit HEVC/VP9 hardware accelerated decoding, like the Sigma Designs STV7804 TV SoC or the MediaTek MT5597 TV SoC (by the way: CompuTV, Welcome to the Moore law’s world!).

As the industry is unable to reach a consensus on HDR, a consumer-driven HDR TV shall support all operational HDR formats in the same way AVRs have universal support for audio formats.

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Apparently, 2017 LG OLED TV will be compatible with all existing operational HDR formats (HEVC HDR10, HEVC Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG YouTube HDR, VP9-PQ YouTube HDR) and upcoming Technicolor HDR (apparently aka Technicolor/Philips HDR or SMPTE ST 2094-20/30 dynamic metadata-based Dynamic HDR or ETSI SL-HDR1).

Sony is not so far: the support of the upcoming Technicolor HDR is not (yet?) announced.

Daniel Ba on Twitter
 
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There's no need for industry to reach consensus on HDR formats. TVs are like smartphones and people replace them every 2 years, so a missing HDR format on the 3000€ OLED is no big deal, you will get a new TV in 2018 anyway.

Right? :facepalm:
 
There's no need for industry to reach consensus on HDR formats. TVs are like smartphones and people replace them every 2 years, so a missing HDR format on the 3000€ OLED is no big deal, you will get a new TV in 2018 anyway.

Right? :facepalm:
more than ever I wont buy another tv for the foreseeable.....
 
more than ever I wont buy another tv for the foreseeable.....

It Is not ideal but to use the half glass expression i learned in the uk, never been a better time either
I waited over 10 years for this.
Dolby vision getting stronger, HDR hlg agreed and wider color gamut plus minimum spec for uhd and 4K. 4K Content is happening and upscaling never been as performant.

Never in the history of television did we see so many changes so radical and so fast across the whole industry..

I use to have no faith and being pessimistic but I am seeing now the last 5 years as an unprecedented stride in picture and sound quality to the masses...
With all the players involved, close to a miracle...

Yes, things will keep in flux for the next 5 years. Anyone who bought in last 5 years, I will recommend holding again 2-3 years. People who didn't like me, 2017 is as good as ever :)
 
DVD is still the predominant format, loads of broadcast TV is still SD..... we are a long, long, LONG way off HDR and 4k being the main formats people watch.

Look how long blu ray has been out. I think HDR could be great on any content however I'm still to remain convinced that UHD content is worth it. I do have a UHD player but so much depends on the quality of the master, exactly like other formats. I'll be happy with my JS9500 for a good few years yet :)
 
DVD is still the predominant format, loads of broadcast TV is still SD..... we are a long, long, LONG way off HDR and 4k being the main formats people watch.

Look how long blu ray has been out. I think HDR could be great on any content however I'm still to remain convinced that UHD content is worth it. I do have a UHD player but so much depends on the quality of the master, exactly like other formats. I'll be happy with my JS9500 for a good few years yet :)

Can't blame you and you have a great TV, but you will see that HDR is not that far at all because it gives an immediate wow factor on hd in particular. All you need is couple of big players pushing it and it is happening for sure
UHD will take time but will have same outcome.
 
DVD is still the predominant format, loads of broadcast TV is still SD..... we are a long, long, LONG way off HDR and 4k being the main formats people watch.

Look how long blu ray has been out. I think HDR could be great on any content however I'm still to remain convinced that UHD content is worth it. I do have a UHD player but so much depends on the quality of the master, exactly like other formats. I'll be happy with my JS9500 for a good few years yet :)


Yup I agree as I'm happy to keep my JS9000 until studios actually bring out DV enabled BDs and there is a significant upgrade over HDR10.

As you ( correctly ) point out even the best display won't perform miracles on poor discs like all AV formats before.

I don't agree with you on UHD ( maybe )content not being work it , I have though cherry picked the best examples of the format and when good they are an excellent upgrade over BD for me.

As the buggers only seem to be putting Atmos mix on UHD now ( big big upgrade ) I just have to go UHD BD when I can.
 
Just when we thought it was safe to buy a 4k hdr set..BOOM! The industry drops a few more acronyms for us to worry about :facepalm:
 
From the article: "However the good news is that the TV manufacturers should be able to upgrade the HDMI 2.0a connections on their TVs to HDMI 2.1 if they so wish."

Do you mean this can be done by firmware update on existing sets?
 
From the article: "However the good news is that the TV manufacturers should be able to upgrade the HDMI 2.0a connections on their TVs to HDMI 2.1 if they so wish."

Do you mean this can be done by firmware update on existing sets?

Yes it , going by reports it will be a firmware update. As always though dem older displays will be a long drawn out process ( if ever ) as manufacturers don't want you to be happy with a 2yr old display ;).
 
From the article: "However the good news is that the TV manufacturers should be able to upgrade the HDMI 2.0a connections on their TVs to HDMI 2.1 if they so wish."

Do you mean this can be done by firmware update on existing sets?
Depends on what chipset the manufacturers have used and how much headroom they have built in but theoretically there's no reason why they can't upgrade the HDMI 2.0a inputs on this year's TVs to HDMI 2.1, possibly even last year's models if the manufacturer was planning ahead.
 
I'm sure we'll cover HDR again in a future podcast and also get some industry experts on to give their opinions. I'll also cover dynamic metadata in more depth in a separate article.
Thanks - I thought I had finally gained a sufficient understanding about HDR to make an informed decision when upgrading my screen this year. The different proliferations of HDR10 are creating further confusion and I want to ensure my screen will process dynamic metadata. The standard variant is not even a half measure in my view as I want every scene to be optimised.
 
Just when we thought it was safe to buy a 4k hdr set..BOOM! The industry drops a few more acronyms for us to worry about :facepalm:

It will never stop but I will not worry about that too much. Hdr10 is there and most importantly Dolby vision and hlg.
Like Steve said previously, the Hdmi 2.1 should hopefully be a software update (to watch for it however) and therefore hdmi dynamic should also be covered in the future when they make their mind.

This year TVs are going to be stellar :)
 
Depends on what chipset the manufacturers have used and how much headroom they have built in but theoretically there's no reason why they can't upgrade the HDMI 2.0a inputs on this year's TVs to HDMI 2.1, possibly even last year's models if the manufacturer was planning ahead.

If my TV (2015 Oled) was unable to be upgraded to 2.1 due to the chipset used then I would not complain, how could I? But if it is possible, then I would like to think it would happen, and people who invested in HDR sets early on would not be left out in the cold.

It would also go a long way to show manufacturers are not being greedy in forcing people to upgrade yet again, and showing respect to people who invested in this new technology. To me, this is how brand loyalty develops.



But I'm a cynical person deep down so........
 
They didn't really need 4K at all did they. They should have just improved the Bluray standard with HDR+WCG and left it at that. These are the main (or only) things people will notice on new UHDs, TVs, and broadcast.

And to think the industry originally thought they could get away with selling UHD discs with just 4K supposed resolution on them (that actually were just 2k upscales) and no HDR+WCG. That would have been a punch to the face by the industry :lesson:. Lucky they copped onto themselves about that.
 
It Makes you laugh if it was not so sad Samsung bring out the latest Gizmo for there latest screen We get the AV review team praising it to all. To us poor sods who can not afford it and who try and keep up to date in some other way go and buy at great cost to us the " SAMSUNG SEK3500" @ £400 (Which by the way Samsung UK say the have knowledge of it) Bring out the latest software as they do quite often without in forming you what it does ( Wonder if they are going to do the same with the 2017 Tvs keeping everybody in the dark with what the software does)Anyway the latest software has partly ballsed up the SEK3500 box so it will not play there own hard drive box which has got a load of 4K films on it which I paid good money for.This not good enough SAMSUNG!!! YOU BRING OUT THESE SO CALLED GREAT NEW TVS WITH ALL THESE VAST IMPROVEMENTS FOR 2017. But what about AFTER SALES WHICH STINK when you balls something up
 
more than ever I wont buy another tv for the foreseeable.....
I feel like it's been like that for years though. I waited to see if 4k stabilised and it did. Made sure I got a TV with HDR capability and then I finally took the plunge a month ago on a KS9500 and now I don't know if it is already obsolete!
 
Samsung caught the Sony desease of trying to do everything their own way...
Who remembers....
- Sony ATRAC audio encoding instead of MP3?
- Memory Stick Duo instead of SD cards?
- Minidisc (though honestly I thought that was a great format)

It never works, so why do these manufacturers insist on going their own way?

The one time the industry all agreed on a standard from the start, DVD, it created the most successful format in history. Surely history tell these guys something.

Come on Samsung, stop messing about and just go with Dolby Vision like everyone else.
 
I will not be buying my next TV until 2019/20 I know this Much it is highly unlikely it will be Samsung But it could be Hisence They are catching up fast Samsung. Unless you look after your customer that you already have. I have heard rumored that the MD and owner of Samsung is under investigation by the South Korean government as well I wonder what that is all about???
 
Samsung caught the Sony desease of trying to do everything their own way...
Who remembers....
- Sony ATRAC audio encoding instead of MP3?
- Memory Stick Duo instead of SD cards?
- Minidisc (though honestly I thought that was a great format)

It never works, so why do these manufacturers insist on going their own way?

The one time the industry all agreed on a standard from the start, DVD, it created the most successful format in history. Surely history tell these guys something.

Come on Samsung, stop messing about and just go with Dolby Vision like everyone else.

The industry does in fact have an agreed standard on UHD , it's the HDR 10 base layer that every manufacturer has put in place on every piece of hardware and discs.

Why go with DV at this point in time , just look at Sony with a DV display and then produce a spinner that doesn't have DV :confused:.

Once studios start with the DV supported discs then one can complain about the shortfalls of the manufacturer.

Your basically asking for manufacturers to jump into something that is yet unproven and yet to be even remotely adopted
 
The industry does in fact have an agreed standard on UHD , it's the HDR 10 base layer that every manufacturer has put in place on every piece of hardware and discs.
...

Can we trust the industry which firstly creates an open standard HDR format (i.e. "HDR10" =~ ST 2084 + ST 2086) [finally an incomplete / half-baked HDR format], then standardizes the missing dynamic metadata adaptation for consistent visual ST 2094, one of the 3 fundamental HDR building blocks?

Consumers should take over and push for universal HDR TV which shall be compatible with all operational HDR formats (i.e. HEVC HDR10, HEVC Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG YouTube HDR and VP9-PQ YouTube for the time being).

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It is technically doable, because different HDR formats are just different (HDR) software running on capable (i.e. powerful enough) TV System-on-Chip.

No more industry-driven HDR TV incompatible with other HDR content, but consumer-driven universal HDR TV able to play any HDR content!

Daniel Ba on Twitter
 
I'm happy to see there may one day be a TV that will do justice to my extensive collection of stained glass window Ultra HD Blu-rays.
 

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