Samsung D8000 owners thread Part 4

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Curly99

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This thread is a continuation of the part 3 thread that can be forund here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1529136-samsung-d8000-owners-thread-part-3-a.html

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Steve Withers said:
As I say, the television is going to be calibrated in a few months which will allow a gentle run-in of the new panel but after calibration the firmware will be locked forever. Any thoughts on what to say to the engineer would be gratefully appreciated.

Any decent calibrator will offer a call back service incase of unexpected changes and, for a nominal fee, a tune up visit after a year should be part of the calibration process.
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Updated to 1019 today, cant see any difference between that and 1017 :)

Played loads of Skyrim last night and I cant see any IR either so that also a bonus. I'm really impressed with this tv. I dont think I will be upgrading until this one breaks or something more amazing comes out.
 

Chauvinnais

Active Member
This thread is a continuation of the part 3 thread that can be forund here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1529136-samsung-d8000-owners-thread-part-3-a.html

Last Post

Any decent calibrator will offer a call back service incase of unexpected changes and, for a nominal fee, a tune up visit after a year should be part of the calibration process.

Thanks Steve for that information. I really wouldn't expect any calibrator, (and I'm only looking at using a Gold Standard Calibrators - Google Maps AVForums endorsed Gold Standard Calibrator), to recalibrate their client's sets after every round of arbitrary firmware updates. The manufacturer has already expressed apology but no remedy to one poster in an e-mail so if they won't pay then why should a calibrator? Anyway, I'm going off topic so apologies. And thanks also.
 
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Insanity202

Distinguished Member
On the Smart TV on the Explore 3D there is a music video by Linkin Park called Irdescrent fantastic demo for 3D and a good tune too :thumbsup:
 

cooknl

Active Member
@slc79
I would try convincing the service dept to fix it at youre home, you will onlly need a board replacement and that is 20 minutes work including removing the back plate. Its a plug and play situation, only thing I would check is that 6the new board has the same or upgradeable firmware as youre existing one.

Tell them Youi have a big dining room table at which they can work with appropriate lighting, and ask them to bring a soft blanket to put the tv on to keep from scratching the viewing panel surface.
I did the above and they gave in and replaced my silver surround on the tv here at my house and the whole thing needed to come apart to replace the surround. All worked out fine, plus you get to see whats inside ......:)

Rob
 

slc79

Active Member
@slc79
I would try convincing the service dept to fix it at youre home, you will onlly need a board replacement and that is 20 minutes work including removing the back plate. Its a plug and play situation, only thing I would check is that 6the new board has the same or upgradeable firmware as youre existing one.

Tell them Youi have a big dining room table at which they can work with appropriate lighting, and ask them to bring a soft blanket to put the tv on to keep from scratching the viewing panel surface.
I did the above and they gave in and replaced my silver surround on the tv here at my house and the whole thing needed to come apart to replace the surround. All worked out fine, plus you get to see whats inside ......:)

Rob

I asked, and they simply do not do that :( They're even using a 3rd party company for picking up and delivering tvs. So yes, I am very worried about this... also, they need to examine the set before they can order any parts. I too think it's a 10 minute job. Unless something is causing interference, it's probably just a matter of replacing the tuner.
 

cooknl

Active Member
Yep thats what I was up against too but I played hardnose and told them that if they wouldnt do it at my home I would contact Samsung service manager and that caused them to change their mind.

But geez its too bad you cant convince them, hope everything goes better then the first time.........

Success mate, I say dont let youreself be intimidated ;)

Rob
 

slc79

Active Member
OK, the forum that hosts my VT30 vs. D8005 post is down so I'm going to write it over again, and also some new information has come up that would have required a change or two in that post :)

As you all know, I was one of many unlucky VT30 owners that was pestered with green patches on my screen. I simply couldn't live with that, and at the same time I did not want to be without that kind of tv either (I have a PS43D455, but it's nothing special and I wanted it to be...)

I was worried, because I had heard a lot about both buzzing and brightness pops and was afraid it'd ruin it for me, then reports started showing up here on firmware fixes etc. and while I can agree that it's reduced, it's in no way gone. But I'll not get too hung up about that now, here's my take on VT30 vs D8005(D8000 for you guys) in what I believe is a highly objective comparison, and green patches are not taken into consideration.

Black levels:

First off, let's begin with the black levels as they're very important to many (including me). And it would be absolutely wrong to say that they're just as good as the VT30. They aren't. They're visibly worse, so as a batcave tv this one should be ruled out. However, on the bright side (no pun intended), what this tv lacks in black level it surely catch up with in brightness levels. Picture is much brighter than the VT30, which is a real plus and makes the worse black levels tolerable to me. In viewing in a dim lit room, there's little difference between the VT30 and D8005. Point for black levels go to VT30 but a point will be awarded to the Samsung for its bright picture too. So 1-1 after this round.

Contrast/brightness stability:

While I had my VT30, I could not spot any occurences of floating blacks at all, and I couldn't see brightness fluctuations either in other modes than Normal (and Dynamic :p), so I consider the VT30 stable. On the D8005 I've both observed floating blacks (more subtle than the 2010 Panasonic range) and these so called brightness pops in addition to the fluctuating brightness experinced on the 2011 Panasonics prior to the updates. None of these issues are very intrusive, and is mostly considered trivial. Still, the point has to be awarded to Panasonic for this one (2-1, in favour of Panasonic)

Colors:

Wow! Just... WOW! Samsungs colors DO really pop as people has been claiming. They look very natural already out of the box. Colors looks so deep and vibrant, without getting the unnatural look of many LCDs. Its brightness really makes it stand out, and it's not all that different to what I'd expect from a good CRT set in either colors or brightness. Point awarded to Samsung, now making it a 2-2 tie.

Line bleeding:

Sets seems rather identical on this one to me, and since both sets exhibits it to some degree no points are given for this (I know it's to be expected for plasmas, though).

3D:

Not going very in depth here. Both TVs performs quite well on 3D, but the Panasonic has less crosstalk. Point awarded to Panasonic.

Menus and other GUI elements:

As I already stated, I really hate the GUI of the Samsungs. It's messy, it's slow and some options are unnecessarily hard to get to. Same goes for the internal tuner and its GUI. Come on, favorite lists cannot even be arranged in preferred order, and you NEED to push "info" to get the banner showing the clock, etc. Panasonic winning this one hands down, making them now lead by 4-2 and this round is won nearly on walkover.

Motion:

This is where it gets interesting... we all have experienced the phosphor lag of the Panasonics. I can't see this on the Samsung, even in faster panning scenes. There's some SLIGHT blurriness going on, but this is nowhere NEAR the phosphor lag on the Panasonics. Undoubtedly a point awarded to Samsung.

Gradations:

On the VT30, I noticed more than once that color gradations, particularly on a blue sky you could often see big steps between the colors. This is also much better on the Samsung, and here silly me thought this just had to be expected on a plasma. I was happy to see I was proven wrong. It's now back to a tie at 4-4. Point went to Samsung; easily.

And since I need something to settle this I will point out that the generic image quality of the Samsung seems to be a little clearer than on the Panasonic. Dithering is slightly less visible, and the fact that it doesn't feel like it's just a tad too dim also contributes to this. So if I were to choose a winner based on this, I'd say Samsung. But only just.

This shows that these sets both performs very well, but the Samsung is not riddled with these infernal green patches a lot of us has been seeing. The D8005's screen is perfectly uniform, and not a single green patch to be seen (or any other colored patch for that matter), and this is where my objectivity stops and my recommendations goes to Samsung.

Would I have chosen the Panasonic over the Samsung if the green patches weren't there? I probably would. I like the design of the set better, I also as I pointed out like the menu system and how the internal tuners works. I do also prefer inky blacks, so I would sacrifice a little white for more black. But as it stands now, I have no problem whatsoever recommending the Samsung for Panasonic owners who simply have had enough of green patches and wants a proper tv now rather than hoping the 2012s will sort this out. I'm happy I did this, and the qualities outweighs the flaws and shortcomings in my opinion. If you read this far, I hope it was worth your time :)
 

Korum

Well-known Member
Great comparison SLC, I too would never have discovered the D8000 if my GT30's didn't have green blotches but I'm glad I did. I have to disagree with a few of your points. I think you are being too harsh regarding the black level on the D8000, it's superb IMO when setup correctly,not as black as a Panasonic but it's close.

Also the D8000 might have a little more crosstalk than the Panasonics during 3D playback but the picture is far brighter which gives more detail to shadows and just gives better overall PQ. A good test of this is the Spaceship sequence at the start of Avatar. Put both sets to full contrast and on a GT30 the stars & Galaxies behind the Ship just merge into a black mass with no detail but on the D8000 all the detail can be seen, I know what I'd prefer to have.

Additionally 3D gaming on the D8000 is better due to the brighter image, I played Uncharted 3 in 3D last night and it looked awesome.
 

slc79

Active Member
Great comparison SLC, I too would never have discovered the D8000 if my GT30's didn't have green blotches but I'm glad I did. I have to disagree with a few of your points. I think you are being too harsh regarding the black level on the D8000, it's superb IMO when setup correctly,not as black as a Panasonic but it's close.

I don't think the blacks are close at all. As I said, in a dim lit room there's not much difference, but once you turn off the light the D8005 looks very gray on dark scenes, and this is not due to incorrect setup on my part because the blacks just won't go any further down :) In normal lighting, blacks does look black. Also keep in mind that the measured black levels of the D8000 is three times higher than the VT30s, so what I observed is very much in line with that. It's about the same level that my Panasonic S20 had, but I actually think even the S20 was slightly blacker (pre rise, that is.. post rise I am quite sure it will be much worse, but I do not have it anymore so won't be able to follow it).
 

Blu-rayx

Well-known Member
Updated to 1019 today, cant see any difference between that and 1017 :)

Played loads of Skyrim last night and I cant see any IR either so that also a bonus. I'm really impressed with this tv. I dont think I will be upgrading until this one breaks or something more amazing comes out.

+1

1017 is a keeper :smashin:
 

slc79

Active Member
Oh, btw... as I were about to start watching a movie in 3D now, I remembered something that points in favor to Samsung... the fact that Samsung uses bluetooth for sync rather than IR. :) This works much better imho.
 

Blu-rayx

Well-known Member
Great comparison SLC, I too would never have discovered the D8000 if my GT30's didn't have green blotches but I'm glad I did. I have to disagree with a few of your points. I think you are being too harsh regarding the black level on the D8000, it's superb IMO when setup correctly,not as black as a Panasonic but it's close.

Previously owning a kuro, I think the black level comes close :smashin:

I also think its a bit harsh considering how much the panasonic cost,Overall the samsung is great value for money.
 

cooknl

Active Member
Also SLC79 dont forget that the d8000 after 1 month looks MUCH better then when first received, I am talking about blacks, sharpness AND color.
So just give yours some time to breakin and you will see what I mean.

Rob
 

TranceFan

Active Member
Can anyone answer me, i want to upgrade firmware to 1019.1 from 1013 before I get my 64d8000 calibrated, is it worth it?? (don't want reduced black levels).
 

KYOKUSHINKAI

Active Member
sic79. I agree 100% with the comparative :smashin:

With your permission would add to the comparison. That the minor black level of Samsung is offset by the excellent gamma tracking throughout the grayscale. Gamma "dynamic" Panasonic :thumbsdow
 

slc79

Active Member
Previously owning a kuro, I think the black level comes close :smashin:

I also think its a bit harsh considering how much the panasonic cost,Overall the samsung is great value for money.

Here they cost about the same, while the Samsung is usually NOT including glasses while the Panasonic comes with two. So I don't think I'm being harsh at all. Just brutally honest :p
 

slc79

Active Member
sic79. I agree 100% with the comparative :smashin:

With your permission would add to the comparison. That the minor black level of Samsung is offset by the excellent gamma tracking throughout the grayscale. Gamma "dynamic" Panasonic :thumbsdow

Yes, I also heard about this which I also suspect is part of why the colors on the Samsung comes out better, but this is beyond my technical knowledge. I did comparisons purely by what the eye could perceive. :)
 

Korum

Well-known Member
I don't think the blacks are close at all. As I said, in a dim lit room there's not much difference, but once you turn off the light the D8005 looks very gray on dark scenes, and this is not due to incorrect setup on my part because the blacks just won't go any further down :) In normal lighting, blacks does look black. Also keep in mind that the measured black levels of the D8000 is three times higher than the VT30s, so what I observed is very much in line with that. It's about the same level that my Panasonic S20 had, but I actually think even the S20 was slightly blacker (pre rise, that is.. post rise I am quite sure it will be much worse, but I do not have it anymore so won't be able to follow it).

OK, that's your opinion and I think we've been through this before. I wouldn't own a TV that had blacks which were 'very grey on dark scenes' as you put, why would you settle for a TV that does this?. I've owned a GT30 and a D8000 and they are almost identical. If your blacks are looking very grey you may have a faulty set.
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Yes, I also heard about this which I also suspect is part of why the colors on the Samsung comes out better, but this is beyond my technical knowledge. I did comparisons purely by what the eye could perceive. :)
I think it comes down the the CMS processor on the set, Samsung clearly have the better CMS processor thus the better colour management. ;)
Panasonic have a different panel drive method so there blacks look blacker.
 

slc79

Active Member
OK, that's your opinion and I think we've been through this before. I wouldn't own a TV that had blacks which were 'very grey on dark scenes' as you put, why would you settle for a TV that does this?. I've owned a GT30 and a D8000 and they are almost identical. If your blacks are looking very grey you may have a faulty set.

Right now I believe you're living in denial. I don't mean this in an offensive way or anything, but take a minute and check the measurements done by calibrators and reviewers also proves that the black levels of these sets are worse. From what I can recall, the VT30 was measured to just below 0.02cd/m2, while the D8000 was measured to 0.06cd/m2 (and 0.07cd/m2 with CS enabled, so it's not that much of a penalty for activating it, and I have to really study the picture to see the difference when I switch off the lights. With lights on I can't see any difference at all, really.. so CS is on whenever possible here since it also eliminates floating blacks)

In a dark room on dark scenes, the screen is clearly more gray than it is black and I am not even the only one in these forums having said that. Maybe I'm just more picky about it than you, but I also EXPECTED what I was seeing based on the reviews that included measurements. What you're saying about GT30 and D8000 looking almost identical also makes sense, because there's not even a very big difference between the GT30 and the S20 (again according to readings done by calibrators and reviewers).

This set performs best with some lights in the room, either some ambient lighting by the tv or some dim lighting in the room in general. Under these circumstances, it really does look black.

I'm not out to pick a fight or anything, though. But I believe you're wrong on this one and the data out there backs up my claims.
 

slc79

Active Member
I think it comes down the the CMS processor on the set, Samsung clearly have the better CMS processor thus the better colour management. ;)
Panasonic have a different panel drive method so there blacks look blacker.

I also think it may be down to their filter being more aggressive :) There must be a reason why it's not capable of reproducing as bright whites as the Samsungs. I believe one of them chose to optimise for light output, while the other one chose to go for blacks. Next year it seems like the light output will be improved for the VT50, so they might actually be on to something if they don't mess up yet another time with panel flaws like this year. I'm not going to buy one regardless of how good it may look, though.. I intend to keep this D8005 for a few years :)
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
I also think it may be down to their filter being more aggressive :) There must be a reason why it's not capable of reproducing as bright whites as the Samsungs. I believe one of them chose to optimise for light output, while the other one chose to go for blacks. Next year it seems like the light output will be improved for the VT50, so they might actually be on to something if they don't mess up yet another time with panel flaws like this year. I'm not going to buy one regardless of how good it may look, though.. I intend to keep this D8005 for a few years :)
I think it comes down to Panasonics aggressive ABL which is reducing the light output of there panels then the AR coating also reduces the light output.
The Samsungs ABL isnt as harsh and the AR coating is on par with the mid range Panasonics (GT30).

I could be wrong but did you say there is power regs in place for screens upto 50" in size? Maybe samsung see this as with ove 50" screens they can use as much juice as they need for there screens where as Panasonic are more about keeping the power usage to a min. More power brighter screen, less power duller screen. :confused:
 

slc79

Active Member
I think it comes down to Panasonics aggressive ABL which is reducing the light output of there panels then the AR coating also reduces the light output.
The Samsungs ABL isnt as harsh and the AR coating is on par with the mid range Panasonics (GT30).

I could be wrong but did you say there is power regs in place for screens upto 50" in size? Maybe samsung see this as with ove 50" screens they can use as much juice as they need for there screens where as Panasonic are more about keeping the power usage to a min. More power brighter screen, less power duller screen. :confused:

You might be right on that one. I notice that the PS51D8005 runs considerably hotter than the VT30, so I guess they might be giving less of a damn about the Energy Star specs than Panasonic does... the panel being hotter means it must also be consuming more power. :)
 
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