SAMSON SX 3200 V CERWIN VEGA 2800

Discussion in 'DIY Speaker & Subwoofer Building' started by grims dale, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. grims dale

    grims dale
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,250
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    catford south east london
    Ratings:
    +344
    the samson is made by HPA. who make stanton american audio and cerwin vega
    the samson 3200 is the same amp under the hood as the cerwin 2800 but it is more powerfull
    it has 12 output transistors the cerwin has 10
    i found two of them for sale. thay are very hard to get in the uk i have bought one of them £300 used
    both of them are in exellent condition so one left for sale grab a bargin
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  2. Nick1881

    Nick1881
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,513
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Nuneaton
    Ratings:
    +231
    In the Samson spec there is no mention of 4 ohm bridged capability. It will be ok to drive 2 subs at 4 ohms each though.
     
  3. scottthehat

    scottthehat
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    11,160
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    honiton
    Ratings:
    +2,801
    got a link to the 3600, I can only find upto 3200.
     
  4. grims dale

    grims dale
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,250
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    catford south east london
    Ratings:
    +344
    :facepalm: sorry its the 3200
     
  5. grims dale

    grims dale
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,250
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    catford south east london
    Ratings:
    +344
    ther were two for sale i have bought one if anyone is intrested in the other one pm me
     
  6. mojogoes

    mojogoes
    Remembered (1961-2016)

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    10,469
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Faraneverland
    Ratings:
    +1,984
    I also couldn't find the 3600:suicide:............A bit strange that it doesn't bridge to 4ohm though.
     
  7. frankblackfire

    frankblackfire
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    143
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Bedford
    Ratings:
    +9
    http://www.samsontech.com/site_media/legacy_docs/SX_OM_5L_v5_31.pdf

    From page 9 Samson Sx manual

    WARNING: Bridge mode is to be used only when the SX Series is connected to an
    8 or16 ohm speaker load. Use of Bridge mode with speaker loads of less than 8
    ohms can result in severe damage to the unit due to excessive heat and current
    limiting and will void your warranty
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  8. mojogoes

    mojogoes
    Remembered (1961-2016)

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    10,469
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Faraneverland
    Ratings:
    +1,984
    So begs the question is the sam 3200 really as powerful as the cerwin vega cv2800 if only in terms of practicality and features.
     
  9. grims dale

    grims dale
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,250
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    catford south east london
    Ratings:
    +344
    yes it is under the hood it uses the same transformer and the same boards inside plus two extra output transistors it has more power
     
  10. grims dale

    grims dale
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,250
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    catford south east london
    Ratings:
    +344
    if you google imags of the 3200 and the 2800 ther are pictures of them with the tops off
     
  11. grims dale

    grims dale
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,250
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    catford south east london
    Ratings:
    +344
    on the box it states 3200 watts into 4ohm bridged. looking around the web people have bridged it
    with there subs with no problems
     
  12. grims dale

    grims dale
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,250
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    catford south east london
    Ratings:
    +344
    HPA Co., Ltd. its the same amp select A series 2 u from the menu
     
  13. scottthehat

    scottthehat
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    11,160
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    honiton
    Ratings:
    +2,801
    from the specs of the 3200

    • Professional High Power, Class H, Rail-switching Amplifier
    • 750 watts per side @ 8 ohms
    • 1100 watts per side @ 4 ohms
    • 2200 watts @ 8 ohms in bridged mono
    • Dual Variable-speed Fan Cooling
    • Signal, Peak, and Protection Circuit Indicators
    • 5-way Binding Post and Speakon™ Speaker Outputs
    • XLR and TRS Input Connections
    • Dual Rack Space Design
    (so does it offer 2x 2ohm or 4ohjm bridged0

    the cv2800
    • Frequency Response: 0/-0.5dB ; 20Hz-20KHz, 0/-3dB: 5Hz-60KHz
    • Rated Output Power (Stereo): 600 watts at 8 ohms; 900 watts at 4 ohms; 1400 wats at 2 ohms
    • Rated Output Power (Mono): 1800 watts at 8 ohms; 2800 watts at 4 ohms
    • At Full Power @4 ohms: 32A / 16A
    • Signal to Noice Ratio: 20 Hz - 20k Hz - 104dB
    • Distortion (SMPTE-IM): .04%
    • Output Circuitry: H
    • Damping Factor (400 Hz): 350
     
  14. scottthehat

    scottthehat
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    11,160
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    honiton
    Ratings:
    +2,801
    heres the specs of all the sampson, the 3800/3200 seem to be the same amp.
    53
    Specifications
    SX1200 SX1800 SX2400 SX2800 SX3200
    Rated Output Power
    Stereo both channel driven
    8 ohms
    300 Watts 400 Watts 500 Watts 700 Watts 800 Watts
    4 ohms
    450 Watts 600 Watts 750 Watts 900 Watts 1100 Watts
    Bridged mono
    8 ohms
    900 Watts 1200 Watts 1500 Watts 1800 Watts 2200 Watts
    Signal to Noise Ratio (20Hz-20k)
    102dB 102dB 104dB 104dB 104dB
    Distortion(SMPTE-IM)
    0.05% 0.01% 0.04% 0.04% 0.04%
    Input sensitivity @8ohms
    1.24V(4dBu) 1.24V(4dBu) 1.24V(4dBu) 1.24V(4dBu) 1.24V(4dBu)
    Voltage Gain
    32dB 33dB 34dB 35dB 35dB
    Output Circuitry
    AB AB H H
    H
    Current Consumption(115VAC)
    @1/8 rated power 4ohms
    6.3A 7.2A 7A 8.5A
    8.5A
    @1/3 rated power 4ohms
    9.5A 12A 14.5A 17A
    17A
    @ rated power 4ohms, max.
    15.5A 19.5A 26A 32A
    Distortion(typical @4 ohms)
    20Hz-20kHz,10dB below rated power 0.01% 0.01% 0.03% 0.03% 0.03%
    IkHz,rated power
    0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1%
    Frequency Response @8ohms 1Watt 0/-0.5dB:20Hz-20kHz,0/-3dB:5Hz-60kHz
    Damping Factor(400Hz)
    280 280 350 350
    350
    Input Impedance
    15kohm Unbalanced,30kohm Balanced
    Input Clipping
    10Vrms(22dBu)
    Cooling
    Continuously variable speed, fan forced air
    Connectors (each channel)
    Input:
    Active balanced combo and1/4”(6.3mm)TRS
    Output:
    5-way Binding post and Speakons
    Controls
    AC power switch,Channel 1 and 2 volume
    Indicators
    Power on(blue),Protection(amber)
    Signal(green) for each Ch.,Peak(red) for each Ch.
    Protection
    Short circuit,Thermal,Current limit,DC offset,Current inrush,RF
    protection, Turn on/Turn off muting
    Power Requirements
    100/115/220/230/240 VAC, 50/60 Hz
    Dimensions(WXHXD)
    19”(483mm)X3.5”(89mm)X16”(408mm)rack mounting to rear
    support
    Net Weight
    33lb.(14.8kg) 37lb.(16,5kg) 40lb.(18kg) 47lb.(21.1kg) 48lb.(21.1kg)
     
  15. johnplayerson

    johnplayerson
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +8
    Glad to see someone is re posting all the information I posted on the AVS forum.

    Samson amplifiers are in fact simply Cerwin vega amplifiers with a different name on the case, and a few less features on the rear. The Samson sport the exact same tranformers, amplifier boards, etc.

    Samson for whatever reason...... decided to not recommend 4 ohm bridge loading or 2 ohm stereo loading.
    However every other NAME that licences the amplifier from HPA electronic does in fact recommend the OK for 4 ohm bridge or 2 ohm stereo loading.

    Yes you can abuse the Samson SX 3200 or even your cerwin vega cv 2800 with such loads however it is rather stupid to do this, as no amplifier provides very good quality in sound using such low resistance, and
    any amplifier subjected to such loads will eventually crap out and die, weather or not the manufacturer recommends it.

    You are better off to series wire upwards and keep your loads at 8 ohm bridged or 4 ohm stereo, as your amplifier should last forever this way, as long as you do not overdrive it for too long. Also keeping in mind it takes 10 times the power to double the percieved sound level, if you are using the samson sx 3200 at 8 ohms bridged you will be achieving 2400 watts, so you will not get any benefit bridging into lower loads with any amplifier for that matter, as you will need 24000 watts to double the 8 ohm output. and 3200 watts will definitely not come close LOL.
     
  16. johnplayerson

    johnplayerson
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +8
  17. MemX

    MemX
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    3,724
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,206
    Why do CV specifically rate for 2Ohm power, then?

    I would hope that transient movie content is a lot less stressful to an amp than cranking out thousands of watts for hours on end at a rave!
     
  18. mojogoes

    mojogoes
    Remembered (1961-2016)

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    10,469
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Faraneverland
    Ratings:
    +1,984
    Poppy cock!!
     
  19. johnplayerson

    johnplayerson
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +8
    MemX Cv rates power to 2 ohms and supports the lower impedance because HPA does in the original line up. It is only Samson that uses the same amplifiers in its cases, that has decided to not recommend the lower load.

    And yes of course mild usage of an amplifier( the casual peaks) cause a lot less damage then going for hours and hours. With the huge power of todays amplifiers, there is very little need for damaging low ohm loading, as plenty of power is available at the 8 ohm load.

    Years ago, the only way to get near 1000 watts was to start low impedance loading, however with the huge power at low prices available today, there is no need to do this to get high power.

    Car audio is still a function of low impedance loading, if you want to break a few sound barriers, as the voltage is limited to 12 volt, so here it is very common to low impedance load, to get a CHEAPER!!!!, solution for higher power. If I was to do car audio again, i would simply install more batteries for gear so I had numerous 12 volt sources. Then I could bust out windshields without busting amplifiers, as I could 4 ohm load instead of 2.

    I currently use 11 Hpa amplifiers, 4 cerwin vega cv 5000 5 cerwin vega cv 2800 and 2 samson sx 3200. I have a few more in the closet. All of them are hooked up to 8 ohms bridged or 8 ohms stereo loads. I never have to get any where near clipping to blow my face off. These amps are powering 2 Rockford fosgate T2, 2 Cerwin vega stroker Pro, 4 MOFO 154, and 2 Audiopipe 10th anniversary 15 inch subs, and then i have my 8 alpine 10 inch subs for my mid bass.
     
  20. mojogoes

    mojogoes
    Remembered (1961-2016)

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    10,469
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Faraneverland
    Ratings:
    +1,984
    If the 15s you have were hitting anywhere near 20hz you would need plenty more power than you currently have 35hz to 40hz is one thing but 15hz and less id another thing all together.
     
  21. johnplayerson

    johnplayerson
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +8
    I have a cerwin vega amp in bridged mode on each of 6 15s, and a cerwin vega cv 5000 in stereo mode on 4 other 15s. I have enough power under any circumstances, sealed or ported. As a matter of fact , of all my subwoofers 10 are sealed including 2 of the rockford T2s.

    I actually have my parametric equalizers on every output set up to augment the low end of the sealed units by 3 db. I dont think I need more power LOL, 6 15 inch subs with 1800 watt each in bridge mode, 4 15 inch subs with 1000 watt each in stereo mode, and 8 10 inch with 3200 watts for each series wired set of 4.

    Need more power..... I dont think so. I can do hair tricks in my living room and getting down to 5 hz, is no problem, as long the original source material has it.
     
  22. MemX

    MemX
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    3,724
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,206
    Nice :cool:

    I recall when I was on a car audio forum that there was always talk about 1Ohm loads - pretty mad!
     
  23. grims dale

    grims dale
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,250
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    catford south east london
    Ratings:
    +344
    I have my Samson 3200 set to parallel mode so 1100 watts per side. and I have had some frightening bass moments and have not got the red clip lights to light up yet the fans are only running at half speed the air coming out the back of the Samson isn't even warm
     
  24. johnplayerson

    johnplayerson
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +8
    There are a few that would do 1 ohm, It's expensive to do it right!!! which is really to never go below a 4 ohm load. and simply add high performance alternator and lots of extra batteries, amplifiers, and of course some Boosting Caps.

    With 4 ohm bridge or 2 ohm loading, what happens is that the load on the output transistors is insanely high. Even if your amp is said to be 2 ohm stable, (if you can say running at over 100 times the distortion specifcations, is stable), after ever use, the output transistors slowing loose more output power capability.
    Then eventually you will turn on your amplifier, and without even pushing more than a few watts, your amplifier will short out and blow!!!.

    Easy as pie to find two people on AVS forum that have blown their behringer ep 4000 pushing 2 ohm stereo load, and they are scratching their heads saying why this happen lol. I was only pushing a few watts!!.
    Yes even lots of dead Crest CA series doing this. Part of the reason CREST and QSC are so high priced is the high warranty cost of the items is priced in, and lots of warranty claims will come from two ohm loaders, if they fry the amp before the warranty expires.

    It looks like the Samson SX line may be getting discontinued by Samson. Lots of places out of stock, and some do in fact say they have discontinued it. The Cerwin Vega model of this amplifier is taking over, as it has more features, and a nice led display. So if you want a few Samson SX 3200 they are 473 in the USA anyway with free shipping at B and H. It would be nice if they made a cerwin vega cv 3200. It would be simple enough for them to add it to the lineup.
     
  25. mojogoes

    mojogoes
    Remembered (1961-2016)

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    10,469
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Faraneverland
    Ratings:
    +1,984
    Ive pushed 2ohm through my ep4000 / aw1500's drivers for over a year now and at extreme levels on many occasions with no signs of stress! Although it did trip out once when it was pushed hard plus its had a fan mod it seems to cope with most situations.
     
  26. johnplayerson

    johnplayerson
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +8
    Behringer EP4000 breaker poping... - AVS Forum

    Congrats,Lots have already blown theirs. I remember one person saying it was in fact after a year lol, Keep going, an amplifer that should last a long time will be dead in no time with two ohm loading.

    The first sign of stress you will notice is a dead amp, it will not wave flags and give you warning announcements via bull horn along the way. Some take two years others three depending on use, but they will go, a lot sooner then they should. No reason for these amps not to last 30 years just like my vintage Yamaha MX 1000U
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
  27. MemX

    MemX
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    3,724
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,206
    I presume it's safe to use a CV5000 rated to 2Ohms at 2Ohms??
     
  28. mattkhan

    mattkhan
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    9,490
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Beckenham
    Ratings:
    +4,494
  29. johnplayerson

    johnplayerson
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +8
    MEMX

    Well i have four of the CV 5000 and I would not consider hooking any of them up to a two ohm load, and that would go for any amplifier, weather or not the manufacturer decided to rate it that way. 2 ohm loading and manufacturers like QSC bragging about a 2 ohm capability, is a gimmick to sell more amplifiers, to a public that does not understand electronics.

    While amps rated to 2 ohms will not blow right away, they slowly wear out till they do as explained earlier.
    It is better to use more drivers in a series connection so you have an 8 ohm load if you are limited to low ohm driver!, however if planned right, you are not!. You will not see any real difference in output via 3600 watts into 8 ohms bridged, (dual 4 ohm load) and 5000 watts bridged, (dual two ohm load), as with 10 times the power required to double the perceived power level, you would require 36000 watts. You will not even hear the extra 1400, and it would not surprise me if most of it gets wasted in extra heat anyway.

    The real world has not changed, just the marketing. Audio has always been an 8 ohm standard and all amplifier parts are rated with this load in mind. 4 ohm stereo is the minimum stable load. 2 ohm takes distortion well over 1 to 5 percent. or 100X.

    Manufacturers are hoping increased sales over marketing hype will help pay for any warranty costs, and are also hoping the amps don't blow before the warranty is over. QSC reduced the warranty to 3 years for good reason!. Most of the claims they were getting were between 3 and five years. Obviously claims made that far off, are not manufacturer defect LOL, and you can be sure a lot of low ohm abuse was happening to cause it, as these beasts will last as much as 30 years or more, with regular loading.

    MATTKAHN ( I hope you found your stumble helpful )

    Yes I remember that forum, That was where people said the CV 5000 was crap but the American audio v6001 was great, even though they were the same amplifier in a different case lol. Among other misinformation, I suspect that post was an intentional crack at the CV 5000 by the thread starter, as he NEVER returned to his own thread. Soon as I said something good about the amp, the MAIN Cerwin vega basher came over right away!!! to a post he could have said something about months earlier but didnt, and said because it only had the same amount of output transistors as the QSC RMX 5050, that the unit was crap!, which was outdated and incorrect info. He did that by reposting a picture from his own thread on the Cerwin VEGA Cv5000. If he hated the amp so much, I wonder why he opened a thread on it?????....................................... If you look carefully, you will see the person is NAME BRAND BIASED in all his posts, and all he can say in defense is something like QSC IS QSC.

    So Sorry to ruin his Cerwin Vega CV 5000 bashing Parade!. His parade was actually working until I posted the proper picture on the AVS forum. Caught with his pants down he still went on saying he was posting correct info, and never did go back to his own thread and post the proper picture of the Cerwin vega unit. I had to go over and do it myself!!!

    The first year the unit was out. they used the amplifier boards from the HPA 4000 or American audio v5000 plus. These units had 12 transistors per channel like the QSC RMX 5050 and the Crown xls 5000. They decided to move to 16, an even greater amount. In both cases the 2500 VA toriod and 180000 uf caps per channel remained.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
  30. MemX

    MemX
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    3,724
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,206
    Thanks for your reply.

    I'm still not sure why 2Ohm will kill the parts, I assume just higher current loads?

    I take the point on 3600w vs 5000w differences being marginal when maxing out :)

    Ultimately I've designed my setup as 2 x 2Ohm sub boxes so I haven't really got a choice :p lol
     

Share This Page

Loading...