Sammy HD950/DVI & HDCP question

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by doctorjuggles, Oct 26, 2005.

  1. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    I own a Philips 26PF9956, which has a DVI jack that's described in the manual as "PC Only."
    Thinking that this just meant DVI without HDCP, I purchased a Samsung HD950 and applied the region hack, which I'm lead to believe removes HDCP as well as region coding.
    Anyway, I'm able to play multi-region DVDs but my TV shows a "Signal Not Recognised" type message when I hook up the HDMI-DVI cable. Every now and then it shows some weird pixels or something, but mostly it's just black.
    There's a light on the front that indicates whether the player is outputting HDMI or DVI, I'm not sure how to change that and if that's the problem as it's on HDMI, or if my screen is just never going to accept that signal, because "PC Only" means something different to "Non HDCP Compliant."

    Any ideas out there?
    Thanks
     
  2. paulmcp2403

    paulmcp2403
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    I have this player and had the same issue -

    go into the players main set up menu and set it to hdmi - you will probabaly have it set to scart ....

    moreover make sure you have your tv cahnnel set to DVI not VGA....I had this issue as well - doh !
     
  3. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    Thanks for the reply. I'm still getting no joy on this.
    I'm not sure if it's because the HDMI out on the player itself is faulty. I can't imagine there's any difference between Non HDCP DVI and PC Only DVI. Oddly, while I've been fidgeting I've been flicking between normal TV and DVI TV on my TV's remote, and every now and then I see a flash of the menu for a millisecond (in pink strangely enough) and then it's gone.

    Every time I try changing the HDMI settting my screen just says "Video Signal Not Recognised" and it sulks.

    And also, strangely, the instructions say that the player will automatically detect whether the receiving device is HDMI or DVI and switch accordingly, but it's not doing that either.

    Below is a pic of other "pictures" that I'm getting
     

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  4. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    Bumping in hope that someone might have an idea.
     
  5. paulmcp2403

    paulmcp2403
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    mate that is the exact same picture I was getting but it was down to menu selections - honestly...It took me four hours to set the damned thing up and that was pure trial and error....beleive me it is now user friendly...

    ps - a hint - don;t have scart plugged in whilst trying to set up the hdmi connection...as your post seems to suggest you already have a scart plugged in...thus it will be picking up on the scart connection...not the hdmi....

    hope this helps mate....
     
  6. paulmcp2403

    paulmcp2403
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    mate I have just been and plugged mine in and here's the settings via dvi / hdmi -

    on player - go to -
    MENU,
    SET UP,
    DISPLAY SET UP,
    VIDEO OUTPUT - set to HDMI (720p etc...)


    then make sure tv system is set to PAL etc and pop in a pal disc....

    also make sure that you select dvi or hdmi on the tv channels and perhaps there is a setting in the MENU field that needs to be set on the TV ????

    Just some thoughts - good luck :O)
     
  7. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    But if I don't have the scart plugged in, how can I see the menu to change it to HDMI?
     
  8. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    Thanks again for all the help you're offering.
    If I go into Menu setup, the option is "HDMI/Component" and if I try and activate it, it says "Have you plugged in the component cable?"
    It doesn't have the option for 720p on HDMI, because HDMI Menu is only accessible when HDMI is operating, and I can't see the menu if HDMI is operating, kind of a vicious circle.

    I'm a bit stumped here. I've tried it on my PC's LCD DVI input too. No luck yet.

    I'll keep trying, but I'm not sure what I can do different that I haven't already tried, to be honest.
     
  9. Kalos Geros

    Kalos Geros
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    What about connecting to the TV via plain the old composite video (cinch yellow connector)???
     
  10. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    Hi Kalos, thanks for your input.
    1) The 26PF9956 is only equipped with scart, s-video and DVI
    2) I am not having any problems seeing an image through scart, it's just the DVI that's proving to be the problem.

    I'm not sure if I've missed something in your point, but I assume you thought I was unable to see any picture at all? This is not the case, I'm merely struggling to get the DVI image working.

    Thanks again for trying to help though.
     
  11. dean randle

    dean randle
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    Why not get one of those little scart adapters, with composite and phono sockets on, that way you can use the scart on the tv and view the composite output of the player? Not sure if it is any use, but I have a 750 and page through the output options using the 'Video Sel' button on the left of the remote (2nd dark grey button down on the left hand side) until I get the desired output.
    Dean.
     
  12. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    Hi Dean, thanks for your input.
    I'm not sure what you mean, could you explain how this will help me figure out why DVI isn't working please?
     
  13. mike7

    mike7
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    I have a HMDI/DVI troubleshooting guide card included with my recent purchase. It gives two helpful (?) hints.

    HMDI/DVI shows distorted image: Action - Make sure that no DVD is playing by pressing stop. Press MENU on remote control. Within the display Setup/HDMI Menu, select either Mode A or Mode B to set up the DVI output: you should choose the mode that provides a distortion free image.

    HDMI/DVI output provides a poor resolution or no resolution at all.: Action- Make sure that the DVD tray is empty, press the fast forward button on the DVD player, not the remote control,for at least 5 seconds. This action will reset the DVD player to the default mode,576P HDMI output.

    I've no comment on the effectiveness of either of these as I'm still awaiting delivery of my tv. If all else fails there is a sticker on the box with a helpline number (local rates) 0870 900 1000.

    I'd like to know what sorts these problems out, if not the above.
     
  14. ianh64

    ianh64
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    I've just looked up at the specifications on the Philips web site. Now I know it may be wrong, but it only lists [email protected]/72/75/85Hz; [email protected]/60/72/75/85Hz; [email protected]; [email protected]; 720x576i (576i); 720x576p (576p) as supported resolutions. Also no mention if these are supported over DVI - with the DVI input being listed as PC only, it may be that video resolutions are not supported on the DVI input at all.

    I don't know about the Samsung, but I suspect that it is trying to put out either 576p, 720p or 1080i of which only 576p is supported on the Philips. So even if the multiregion hack does remove HDCP, you are going to be limited to 576p or, 576i if the DVD player outputs this via HDMI - many do not.

    And this is assuming that the multi region hack indeed removes HDCP.

    If you do however get it working, you may then run into the additional problem that due to differences in DVI-PC and DVI-Video formats it may be impossible to correctly calibrate black and white so you may get a very grey 'black' and an off white 'white'. This will be a problem if you are sending DVI-Video levels when the TV is expecting DVI-PC levels.
     
  15. dean randle

    dean randle
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    What I meant is to use a scart adaptor to get a composite (yellow phono socket) signal onto the tv without having to use a scart cable which may be causing the conflict issue you have?
    The paging throught the display outputs is just pressing the detailed button on the remote, and it will switch through the various methods that the player outputs its signal (eg scart, dvi, composite, component).
    What I would recommend is getting the picture to output on the tv through composite and then use the menu of the player to select the desired output.
    Hopefully that explains things a bit more - and apologies if I am making the explanation too basic.
    Dean.
     
  16. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    Thanks again to everyone for the helpful replies.
    dean, the Sammy is unable to enter any of the HDMI settings without actually being in HDMI mode, so unfortunately it doesn't matter. As I've mentioned, I can get into the menu through scart, but without being activated in in HDMI mode itself, I'm unable to adjust digital settings.

    Great stuff, ianh64, thanks for this.
    To address your points, the Sammy is able to output 768 once hacked, and my Philips manual says that setting in DVI mode if connected to a PC should be "1024x768 @ 60Hz", so I know the DVI jack input and TV resolution is capable of 768.

    I've managed to get the Sammy playing on my PC's LCD now, which is good news and it proves the Sammy's outputs are working and that the HDCP is disabled.
    I've also managed to get a picture onto the TV now, but it's a bad picture at odd resolutions that only appears sporadically.

    Touching on a point made by mike7, I managed to find the "Mode A" and "Mode B" settings while it was hooked up to the computer, but while it's hooked up to the TV, it doesn't have these options. The Samsung appears to know when the connected device is HDMI or DVI and switches accordingly, but can't do it when hooked up to the TV, which leads me to believe that the TV is not sending out a certain signal that the Samsung is searching for. When hooked up to the TV, the menu settings indicate that the Samsung thinks the device is HDMI, not DVI.

    So not much luck all round, although it is odd that I'm managing to occasionally get a picture, albeit a poor and disfigured one.

    Touching back on ianh64's point about "differences in DVI-PC and DVI-Video formats", I do not know the differences, but that was sort of my original point here, perhaps the Philips' DVI connection is never going to accept a DVI signal from anything other than PC. I have no idea why, without fully understanding the technology. I'd have thought there'd be one standard DVI signal, with the only addition being HDCP encryption, but my Philips appears to be proving me very wrong here.

    On a positive note, it looks great hooked up to the PC through DVI. Heh.
     
  17. ianh64

    ianh64
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    DVI uses 8 bit for each R,G,B value, 0 representing off and 255 representing full on. So R,G,B=0,0,0 is full black and 255,255,255 is full white. Well it is for a PC anyway - This is called DVI-PC levels.

    For video it is different. 16 represents off and 235 is full on. So R,G,B=16,16,16 is full video black and 235,235,235 is full video white. Called DVI-Video levels.

    Now if your display is expecting DVI-PC levels and you give it DVI-video levels ie from a standard DVD player, then you are never going to get black blacks and white whites. Conversely, if you give a display expecting DVI-video levels those from a PC, ie DVI-PC levels, then it is not so much a problem, except that you may loose dynamic range in the black and white levels.

    Regarding DVI formats. It is no different than standard PC and Video standards. Your PC Monitor is unlikely to accept TV video signals and your old CRT is unlikely to accept video resolutions. Video is 480i/p @ 60H (NTSC), 576i/p @ 50Hz (Standard PAL), 720p - [email protected]/60 (HD) and 1080i - [email protected]/25/30/50/60 (HD). Anything other than this will be a PC format.

    Also bear in mind that the timing, 50 or 60Hz etc is important. It may be that you are outputting [email protected] when your monitor is expecting 60Hz.
     
  18. Kalos Geros

    Kalos Geros
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    Damn, I was just about to say THAT!!!! Anyway, maybe you can get another HDMI player (from a friend) and see what happens!!! Or try connecting your PC (again?) and play with refresh rates in Powerstrip to get a 50Hz refresh rate and if it works, you can rule it our as source of the problem. I'd also put some blame on the Philips too (and call Philips support while we're at it), 'cause everyone seems to be picking on Samsung these days and it may not be the player's fault at all... :D
     
  19. DaMacFunkin

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    You will find that there are 2 main types of DVI.... DVI-A and DVI-D. DVI-A carries annalouge and digital signals and is typically used by pc's and pc lcd monitors and is not compatible with DVI-D which carries only digital signals and is fully compatible with HDMI, you will need to get a converter box from somewhere like www.keene.co.uk which will convert the DVI digital output from your dvd player to DVI-A which is the pc style input on your screen.
     
  20. ianh64

    ianh64
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    The Philips screen in question, the 26PF9956 only has a DVI-D connection. It has separate VGA input for PC analogue. The type of converter that you mention could be connected to the VGA input, but there is no guarantee that this type of dvi fix will work indefinately as the HDCP secret device key may be revoked and alot of money will have been wasted. Infact, they do not work on all DVD players even now. In this case, it should be OK if the Sammy does not output HDCP encryption, but it is a very expensive solution even still.
     
  21. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    How do I find out what this player outputs? The specs make no mention of this, only the resolutions available.

    I've not blamed the player at all, and in fact, in my last post, mentioned that the Sammy is working and it seems that the TV is the problem.

    Anyway, I'm no closer to figuring this out. I'm thinking of selling it and buying a Mac Mini to run network and DVD functions on the Philips now, any thoughts?
     
  22. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Normally it is determined by the disc. PAL is 50Hz, NTSC is 60Hz. So if an NTSC disc plays OK and a PAL one doesn't, then that is probably your problem. Some players allow you to fix the output as either PAL or NTSC, in which case, the DVD player may do frame rate conversion for you. To be honest though, if the Philips only accepts 60Hz as stated in the specs, frame rate conversion is not a great thing to have to do, by the player or the display - you may see judder that may be unacceptable to you.
     
  23. doctorjuggles

    doctorjuggles
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    I'm going to have to admit defeat on this one. Thanks to everyone for all the help offered, but it looks like I'm going to have to sell this player and go with a media centre type PC/Mac Mini solution if I want to get anything out of that DVI connection.

    Thanks again for all the help offered.
     
  24. Kalos Geros

    Kalos Geros
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    That's sad...this should all work out of the box like AV equipment used to work...and it doesn't, since it is now all based on PC technology with a whole variety of standard implementations that do not work together because everything is so OPEN...I'd say: bring on a hegemon, you'd suffer some oppresion but at least you'd know what you're at and what to expect...
     
  25. paulmcp2403

    paulmcp2403
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    folks - go to the download centre at www.samsung.com for the hd950-go to the manual - chapter 5 - seeting up display - p66 - it explains it fully and its worth it - I am amazed at the difference in piccy quality now !!!
     

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