Sagem HDD50 G4 Kink in Speaker Mesh

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by khanman, Mar 20, 2006.

  1. khanman

    khanman
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    Hello

    I was wondering if anyone else with the Sagem 50" G4 had noticed a "kink" in the speaker mesh support that the screen sits on to the right of the bulb light about 1" across. On rubbing my finger across this area I can clearly feel a lump underneath the mesh which is visible when you stand to the side and look across this area.

    I took delivery of this TV last Friday and immediately noticed this kink in the silver mesh. I phoned David at AV WOW, where I purchased the TV and was told that this bump or kink is inherent on all the new 50" Sagems. It also seems that the mesh is coming away slightly in this particular area on my set.

    Another thing clearly evident with this TV is the humming noise. I also own one of the original HDD45 which I've had for about 16 months and the the new 50" set is about twice as loud as my old 45", which is a big disappointment as I would have expected the opposite with R&D going on during this time.

    One thing though, the picture is miles better than my 45". It seems so much more natural and free of noise and even on normal sky channels is simply superb.

    It is because of the picture quality that I have decided to purchase another Sagem as to me it seems so much more natural and unprocessed in comparison to a plasma. I am disappointed though that the build quality, internal compts, etc don't seem to have moved on much since the original 45".

    Still, I have a fantastic picture on a 50" TV at a fraction of the cost of a 50" plasma so it can't be bad.

    Still enough of babbling on, has anyone else with the 50" noticed this kink in the silver speaker stand?

    Thanks.....
     
  2. sprattgraham

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    I've got the kink in the speaker mesh support as well. There cutting cost because the material is different than was used on the Original 45/56.

    The humming is an issue that affects the new 45/50 due to the way the HD4 Chip Produces the image and depending if an extra few pieces of material have been fitted will make it slightly less noticeable.

    I agree with you the Image produced by the new HD4 chip seems a lot better than the HD2+
     
  3. Tonywrj

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    Mine is fine.

    Tony
     
  4. Kidwhizz

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    The extra humming is coming from the wobulator in the HD4 chipset, some people must notice this a lot more than others. I have checked this out on demo models in Comet and it sounded quieter than say a PC fan and a lot quieter than old VCRs used to run at.... only a couple hundred more pounds to go and I'll be trading in my old 45" and getting the new 50!!! :)
     
  5. thfccambs

    thfccambs
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    Had someone from sagem come out today,put 2 plastic bits under the sagem and it's stopped the humming quite a lot.Seemed to be vibrating on my glass stand.
    Was told it's very common on the new G4-T's,over the moon whith the set itself pictures excellent.
     
  6. arfster

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    Try sticking your TV on a rubber mat, of the sort of thickness you'd find in car floormats. If you have it sitting on a solid stand, it's pretty unavoidable for it to transfer some of that vibration :-(
     
  7. dduck

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    Just checked and i have the kink too , only small so thats why i never noticed it before.
    Sagem coming out to repair my faulty freeview board soon so i will ask them to apply the humming fix too although its no where near as bad as the 45" set i had to return.
     
  8. skes

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    Yup I have it too, noticed it straight away when I got it, when he came to sort the noise I mentioned it, he looked at the back of the grill but couldn't see anything.
    Obviously something is coming into contact with the mesh, looks like park of the speaker suround or something, one day I'll have a mess with it, shave a bit off lol
     
  9. fnloud

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    Yep got mine set up on Sat and the kink (by the power light ,yeah?) was the first thing I noticed! Followed by the black splodges on the screen (inside I guess, or on the mirrors?) and the hum which is in my opinion far too loud, actually quite off putting when watching normal telly at a reasonable volume late at night.

    My telly sits on a wooden stand but I have limestone floors in the lounge so this probably isn't helping! Will try the rubber door mat see if it calms down the hum as it is starting to drive me bonkers!

    What a picture though for the money.

    Also, does anyone else have problems with the telly repeatedly turning itself back on after powering off? My poor bulb will be dead in no time at this rate!

    --edited one time for awfull spelling!--
     
  10. Kidwhizz

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    Hi fnloud,

    The TV is automatically switching itself on when it detects a signal from the SCARTs, to stop this go into the TV menu, select Install, select Sources, Select Manager and set this to Manual.

    Kink is caused by the grill not quite fitting over a particular component, this is on all the units. However the black on the screen sounds like a faulty mirror or damage to the actual screen itself, recommend calling the Axium helpline on 0844 441 1299 to arrange for an engineer to come out, if they can't fix the black issue then am sure they will agree to swap it
     
  11. fnloud

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    Thanks Kidwhizz. I did read a thread about the switching on, though I have had no other AV sources turned on at the time, not sure if it's the same or not. I will try your suggestion, and many thanks for the input. I have contact AVWOW and am now waiting for the sagem guys to contact me.

    Thanks again.
     
  12. dduck

    dduck
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    I had the same problem with the set turning itself back on (all my other av sources were definetly off). I changed to manual and it does seem to have stopped it but i did prefer having the tv automatically turning to the right source when i switched it on so this is a function i can't use now.
    Amazing picture for the price ...love the tv but getting a little miffed with these minor faults.
     
  13. Cron

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    yeah I agree, for the money its a superb bit of kit...

    I've also got a small black spec on the TV (might be something on the mirrors that needs cleaning off), and the hum does seem to loud to me imo (its wierd, through sky its quite a low hum, but when putting it to AV5 and my XBOX 360, the hum goes higher in pitch and you can't hear it NEARLY as much....) - so i too phoned Sagem today and have arranged an engineer to come out.

    Both things dont really bother me *that* much, and i know that its a fraction the cost of a decent plasma.. but £1500 is still £1500! :).... and I want it to be perfect.

    My mesh is actually ok.

    Great TV thou, would buy it again if i had to do it over again, will wait to see how good Sagem are about fixing these little niggly problems.
     
  14. Kidwhizz

    Kidwhizz
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    Hi Cron,

    When you are watching Sky the picture is 50Hz and so the wobulator oscillates at this frequency. The hum at this frequency hits a harmonic of the base unit, when you switch to the Xbox the wobulator moves to 60Hz away from the harmonic of the base unit so you hear the pitch increase and the volume decrease.
     
  15. khanman

    khanman
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    I must admit the humming on my TV is starting to get me down.. It is such a fantastic TV with a wonderful picture but is let down badly by this constant humming. Spoke to a Sagem Engineer yesterday who explained that the humming is unfortunately part and parcel of the HD 4 chip. I myself cannot understand why Sagem didn't look at some sort of sound insulation within the TV to reduce the sound. He told me that the number of call outs that the engineers are having to make is costing Sagem a fortune. I will see how things go over the next few weeks to see if I can get used to the humming otherwise it may have to be returned which would be so annoying because I absolutely love this TV.
     
  16. dduck

    dduck
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    The 45" i had did have bad humming and was replaced with a 50".
    The 50" has only a slight hum and is rarely audible over the sound. The kink in the mesh is so small i had to really look for it when it was mentioned.
    Overall i'm very happy with my purchase apart from a few small niggles.
     
  17. Cron

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    thanks Whizz, that makes a lot of sense :)
     
  18. kjskot

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    The hum on mine disappears entirely when I watch HD content via my "D-theater" machine - wonder why this is?
     
  19. Kidwhizz

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    Hi kjskot,

    The wobulator runs at the viewing frequency, so normally 50Hz. This hits a harmonic with the base unit and is therefore slightly amplified. When you view via "D-theater" machine the TV becomes a monitor and runs at 60+ Hz. This results in a pitch increase and also moves off the natural harmonic of the base unit so the humming isn't amplified as much and so becomes quieter.
     
  20. kjskot

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    Thanks, Kid - can I expect the same result when SKy HD comes in or are we still into the humming situation?

    Sorry for appearing a bit dumb but all this talk of Wobulators leaves me wobbly :D
     
  21. Tonywrj

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    Hi,

    After a long wait since Dec 13th, when Andy Gorman came out and told us that ours was the loudest humming 50" that he heard, we have finally got a replacement TV and it doesn't hum. Or at least not much. In a quiet room you can just about detect the difference when you switch the set off and there is only the slight fan noise.

    I can't see any kink in the speaker cover, but then I couldn't on the old set either. Must be a build standard problem on some sets.

    After some more harrasment of the call centre I have also finally got a straight answer as to why I cannot get audio to the set through HDMI from my Tosh 350E DVD player. Apparently the Tosh delivers digital audio in something called AC3, which Sagem didn't think to support. I assume that some helpful expert can describe what AC3 is and speculate as to what Sagem does support (AC2?)

    I would also be interested to know if the new Sony DVP-NS76H also uses AC3 or will this be OK? This looks as though it might be a good replacement for the Tosh, which keeps freezing for several seconds.

    Tony
     
  22. sprattgraham

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    The problem with the Tosh 350E DVD, are you using the tv speakers or amp.

    If so the Sagem does support AC3 on its TV speakers but it will only work with 2.1 not 5.1

    Never had a problem with AC3 5.1 when using the spdif in and then feeding straight out again.

    If you turn the TV speakers on you will not here anything unless it is 2.1
     
  23. Kidwhizz

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    Hi Tony,

    Presume that the DVD player you have is the Toshiba SD-350E connected via HDMI. The 45/50H G4 T2 has 2 HDMI and one of them (think it is HDMI2) is DVI compatible ie if you look at the back bottom left of the machine you will see audio phono ins to allow you to have a DVI image and connect the audio seperately. If you go into the TV menu, Options, you will see an HDMI setting which is analogue or digital. If you set it to Digital the HDMI port will take the audio via the HDMI port, if you set it to Analogue it will take the audio via the phono ports on the back. If you connect the Tosh via the other port you will get the sound automatically. Hope this helps
     
  24. Tonywrj

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    Hi Kidwhiz,

    Nothing so simple I'm afraid. Sagem have definitely told me that the digital sound from the Tosh into either HDMI ports will not be supported. I have tried absolutely everything to make this work. Now I have seen Sprattgraham's response I am even more puzzled. Maybe Sagem speak with forked tongue!

    Thanks for you response,

    Tony
     
  25. Tonywrj

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    Hi Graham,

    Thanks for the response, but I can confirm that I get no sound to either the internal speakers or out to the Amp from SPDIF when using HDMI from the Tosh.

    I did try an audio feed to SPIDF in from the Tosh, but could only get Dolby Surround out to the amp from a 5.1 feed. However, DTS worked OK.

    There seems to be a general problem between the Tosh and the TV no matter what I try. As I use the SPDIF in for Sky to solve awful lip synch problems I am really stuck with HDMI or direct audio between Tosh and Amp, which seems to be OK lip synch wise, possibly because most of the scaling is done by the Tosh and the audio is synched to the upscaled video when it leaves the Tosh.

    The response I got back from Sagem did seem to indicate that they knew of the problem with the Tosh and that they thought that the problem was AC3. This response was from the factory, not just the call centre, although it was via the call centre. I think that I will try to contact Sagem in France directly, especially as Andy is apparently in South Africa at the moment.

    It is nice having a virtually hum free TV though.

    Tony.
     
  26. dannyg81

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    As far as I am aware the Sagem doesn't have an onboard Dolby Digital Decoder, which is what is needed to decode the AC3 stream (which is Dolby's own multi channel sound format). So if you're trying to send a multi channel signal to something without a dedicated decoder, it won't no what to do with the sound stream, and will down convert this to a stereo signal that will be sent to the relevant speakers. From what I can gather the Sagem doesn't support 2.1 (which is a stereo stream with a dedicated LFE/Bass stream). It can handle a stereo signal though, which will be correctly sent to each speaker and then any bass thats needed is handled by a crossover frequency of the signal (which is why the sagem's built in sub is very weak).

    So, to sum up.... you're trying to send a 5.1 AC3 stream to a TV that has no Dolby Digital Decoder, so it won't do anything with the signal other than downmix it to stereo. But you're also trying to send this multi channel signal via the HDMI connection, which as Sagem themselves have told you, the Axium doesn't support. It doesn't know what to do with the signal internally... it has nowhere to send it effectively.
     
  27. Tonywrj

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    Hi Danny,

    Thanks for the response, but don't think that you have picked up on what I am trying to do.

    Firstly, I am not interested in using the TV for audio, I haven't even got the TV speakers attached. Although I did test them at one stage. Incidently, even PCM audio through HDMI did not get through to the speakers either.

    What I am expecting is that the audio from the HDMI is transported to the SPDIF out so that I can get a feed to my Amp that has been delayed to prevent lip synch problems. This is exactly what happens to digital audio piped in via SPDIF In, I see no reason why it shouldn't be the same from HDMI.

    I don't see why the internal audio arrangements for the TV have any relevance at all where only pass through is required.

    I am sure that there have been posts on this forum where people have sucessfully done what I want from other DVD players.

    Tony
     
  28. sprattgraham

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    Sorry didn't under stand, as far as I am aware the Sagem does not support HDMI -> SPDIF that's a feature I would have liked, lets hope there no lip sink issues with Sky HD.

    There also seems to be no sound on this model if you give it AC3 2.1 or 5.1 on it's internal AMP.

    The Test I done I had the SPDIF output PCM My mistake
     
  29. dannyg81

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    Apologies.... I was using your example as a general way to explain that the Axium will not cope with AC3 streams. But as sprattgraham states.... there is no HDMI -> SPDIF passthrough. Which is the point I was trying to make in the last part of my post, albeit very badly :D

    It seems Sagem implemented support for SPDIF passthrough on all the sources except HDMI. Probably because most sources connected to HDMI do not suffer from the slower image processing times found in analogue connections (such as scart) so do not need to have the audio and video brought back into synch.
     
  30. dannyg81

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    This is true.... as the Axium has no internal Dolby Digital Decoder.
     

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