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Sagem Axium HD-D45 DLP or Sagem Axium 50" or Tosh 46" DLP

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by -kreep, Mar 1, 2005.

  1. -kreep

    -kreep
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    Hi all,

    After my fiasco with ElectricalWorld yesterday, apperntly i will have my money back on wednesday! :eek: I'm now back in the DLP TV market.

    After reading your comments, I feel it's down to theses choices:

    Sagem Axium HD-D45 DLP or Sagem Axium 50" or Tosh 46" DLP.

    Please help. Which one is best? Pros & Cons of all three please.

    Much appreiciated lads n lasses! :thumbsup:
     
  2. hifiboom

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    i compared the Sagem 50" and 45", and I personally prefered the picture of the Sagem Axium 50" over the 45" and I like the 5" more picture size.
    But it doesn`t have HDCP on the down side.

    I ve never seen the Toshiba.
     
  3. -kreep

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    So the Sagem d45 is HDTV ready then? Because to me that would be a defining factor between the two.

    I'm still unsure about the tosh. Have seen it running playing Spiderman 2, it looked good but, i dunno the terminology here, grainy? I also felt the picture looked a bit flat and lacked that wow-factor. I didn't see any blurring or rainbow artifacts that people keep talkin about here.
     
  4. n_s_simpson

    n_s_simpson
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    Hi guys

    Do you recon I should go for the Sagem HD-D45? I can get it delivered for £1,580.38inc VAT (£1,345ex VAT).

    I am worried that the green tint issue will not be resolved.

    Let me know your thoughts.
     
  5. M0SNR

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    Hi n_s and all

    I've got the HD45 and am on the whole very pleased with it. The HDCP support was one of the main things that influenced my purchase. I've not really noticed the green tint (I run it pretty much exclusively via a component source) although the rainbow effect can be a bit strange at times - if you look away from the screen when showing, for example, credits, you can see a rainbow trail due to (I think) the colour wheel rotating and the movement of your eyes away from the screen. I wouldn't class it as a major problem but worth being aware of. Replacement bulbs are another thing worth considering - I think that they cost about £250 and need replacing after about 12,000 hours but you don't have problems with screen-burn, at least you CAN replace the bulbs. If anyone knows more about the cost of bulbs, I'd be really interested. Also I *think* that the HD45 uses a newer DLP chip than the 50 and I've also read on other threads that Sagem have a zero stuck mirror policy

    Cheers
     
  6. n_s_simpson

    n_s_simpson
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    Yeah the colour wheel does create the rainbow effect.

    I am still worried about that although I'm coming round.

    I think they will use a 3-chip system in a few years time.

    I will definately have a word with Sagem about their 0 mirror stuck policy.

    So you think it's worth it then?

    Where did you buy it from and how much did you pay.

    I can get it for £1,580inc VAT.
     
  7. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    12,000 hours equates to about 6+ years of average daily viewing. If the lamps cost £250 now they'll be peanuts by the time you come to replace it. If anyones buying from John Lewis I think the bulbs are included in their 5 yr warranty but don't quote me on this.
     
  8. M0SNR

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    Hi All

    n_s - £1580 sounds a really good price - I paid £2 for mine. Who are you talking to? My Dad has decided to buy one after seeing mine, and if I can save him over £400 he will be pretty chuffed! I bought mine from plasma-television.co.uk and the unit arrived on the day as promised and I was very pleased with the service. I also had the option of returning it if I wasn't 100% happy with it in my system. As I said, I personally don't have a problem with the rainbow effect - it's only marginal and I don't see it as a show stopper. For the price that you are being quoted, it sounds like a bargain...Personally I'm pleased with the set although YMMV. Running HD into it from my PC gives fantastic results! I also have it in a South facing bay window and so far have not had any problems with viewing.

    Neil - Yes, I'm hoping that the price for bulbs will come down over the next couple of years - Normally the TV is on for about 3-4 hours a day, and some evenings we don't put the TV on at all, although since the HD45 arrived, we've been watching more TV but I'm sure that we will get back to our normal viewing habits over the next few months...so I'm hoping to get a good few years out of the bulb. It would be nice to have warranty coverage on the bulb but I'm surprised that John Lewis cover the bulb as well as I'd have expected it to be classed as consumable.. I know that when I buy valves, I get a 30 day warranty and many valve amp manufacturers will warranty the amp for x years but the valves for say, 30 days.

    Cheers
     
  9. n_s_simpson

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    Hi MOSNR

    Firstly, please explain YMMV?

    Secondly, I can purchase this product from a supplier. I spoke with one of the online stores yesturday and found out that that's actually the same place they buy them from.

    Most online stores purchase their TV's from the same set of suppliers. Usually those suppliers ship direct to the customer 'plain label'. So you think you've received the item from where you bought the machine from but in actual fact it's come directly from the supplier's warehouse.

    The only thing that will be different between the different online stores is the sales advice and after service.

    I can't believe that they are making almost 30% profit on the initial sale plus any rebates Sagem give them as an incentive for selling their machines.

    Also I don't buy TV's from that supplier so I won't necessarily be getting the best price.

    I sell printers and only make about 6%!!! I'm in the wrong business :)

    Anyway, you can't buy direct from a supplier unfortunately but I don't think that the online stores should be making that much money, it's unbelievable!

     
  10. neilmcl

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    WOW just £2, what a bargain :D
     
  11. M0SNR

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    Thanks neil - I was waiting for that one :)

    n_s, I think picture quality is subjective; someone may like one TV and not another etc which is why I said YMMV. I've read elsewhere of one member who is susceptible to the rainbow artefacts but it doesn't really worry me too much. Thanks for the info re the supplier - I guess my Dad will place his order through the same company I used - 30% isn't a bad margin at all, especially if you don't have to hold stock...

    Cheers
     
  12. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    Why not try JL Direct, it's exactly the same price, ie, £1999, and you do get the 5 year free warranty.
     
  13. jerkyboy

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    The bulbs are definately covered in the John Lewis 5 year warranty, I have had an email from them to confirm this. My Sagem comes next thursday, cant wait.
     
  14. nigel_williams

    nigel_williams
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    I ordered from JL on Saturday, they just called to confirm delivery next Tuesday 8th.
     
  15. n_s_simpson

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    i don't understand why you are all prepared to pay this figure when online stores should be selling them for hundreds of pounds less!
     
  16. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    Should be, but they're not so given the choice I'd rather stick with JL for the 5 yr warranty.
     
  17. Razor

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    I wish I had got my RD65 from JL I think the 5 year warrenty is a great idea. Total peice of mind.
     
  18. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    Razor you've hit the nail right on the head. I wouldn't normally pay for an extended warranty because IMHO they're a rip-off considering you have enough clout with statutory consumer rights (Sales of Goods Act etc) but if one's being offered free then it all comes down to piece of mind.
     
  19. KableMan

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    Hi Guys - so is it the consensus that the HD45 is a better DLP set and purchase than the Toshiba 46"? I've seen the Sagem 50 and the Toshiba but not the HD45. I've not read much on the all round performance of the HD45 - just lots of threads about finding and buying one in JL (my local JL in Solihull hasn't got one in yet :( )

    So could someone who has one or has seen one alongside the Toshiba please give some feedback on its component, DVI and PC performance? Are they much of a muchness :smashin: or are there major differences? :thumbsdow

    One consideration is that I have a huge region 1 collection with only a few region 2, 3 and 4 discs and I'm planning on buying the Samsung D945 DVD Player with HDMI. I'll also be investing in a HTPC (as it gives me an excuse to upgrade) so PC performance is important - I'll be playing all the Hi-Def material this way initially.

    Also I expect I'll want to upgrade to HD-DVD when it comes out so I don't want to spend a fortune on a DVD player right now.

    Any feedback will be much appreciated. I'm so close to a decision I can feel it... :rolleyes:

    Cheers
    KableMan
     
  20. fleagledog

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    Kableman:
    You really have to try and see it for yourself if you can. I compared the Tosh and Sagem RD50 in comet and thought the Tosh was the better picture. Some people agree and some dont so it really is down to you. I would imagine though, that if you prefer the 50 to the Tosh, then you will probably prefer the 45 to the Tosh as well. I would hope that the newer set would have the better picture.
     
  21. KableMan

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    Thanks fleagledog - I did like the HD demo on the sagem 50 (although it did seem a little unnatural in parts) but I didn't like the bright whites and its lack of HDMI support. I haven't seen HD on the Toshiba but it made a good job of I, Robot and Gladiator (although I did spot the dreaded rainbows very briefly - I couldn't see them when I tried to however and I was standing very close to the set).

    I know you're right about seeing it for myself - its a pain that JL in Solihull don't have one - the snooty assistant said that people in solihull don't tend to buy rear projection tv's - they prefer plasmas!! I said that if they had one on display with a HD feed it'd sell better than any 3.5K plasma!

    Cheers
    KableMan
     
  22. n_s_simpson

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    Do any of you recon they're bring out a 3 chip DLP rear projection set any time soon?
    I'm thinking of getting the Sagem (since I can get it for £1580inc VAT :) - sorry to keep bragging) but I don't know whether to wait a few months.
     
  23. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    The 3 chip DLP RPTVs are a bit of way off yet and I imagine when they do come out they will probably quite expensive to start with. TI are bringing out a 4th Gen chip (HD4 ?) later this year which will probably in the newer 1080 models.
     
  24. electrosim2001

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    I bought the Tosh 46" and I am spectacularly pleased with it.
    I bought it as a home cinema screen for DVDs and Sky, not for watching Corrie, and it's set up in a longer that it is wider, room. It's set up so that my Kef speakers can be positioned correctly as can the surrounds. The Tosh is centred against the narrower wall. I can accomodate the Tosh's speakers on each side and for casual viewing, for me they are a bonus, particularly as the set has WOW surround which I found actually works.
    Alright it isn't as good as my Yamaha amp, but the sound is extremely good especially as it's in as set which cost £1500. When I say that the WOW sound works, well it is the first virtual surround where the surround sound actually can really appear to come from behind you. My Dolby virtual speaker system on a Denon DVD player doesn't even achieve this.

    I did however buy the set for its PQ.
    I find that it compares well to my Tosh 36" Picture Frame TV for contrast, except in dull and gloomy shots where the 36" maintains a deep black, and the 46" greys out a little. Normal picture contrast is excellent. If the picture is grainy from time to time this has everything to do with the programme source. With a good source the picture is ( to use an overworked word ) awesome.
    For me the picture only really falls down in two areas, rainbows, and medium speed pan and tilt shots ( mainly pans ) where there is some contouring problem, especially noticeable in close up face shots. Fast or slow pan and tilts aren't affected.
    I guess that this fault is due to the colour segment wheel's speed syncing with the screen movement, so I would imagine ( but don't know ) that it might well be the same for other domestic DLP TVs.
    I don't find it a major problem, and I still wouldn't contemplate using a plasma for my 'home cinema'. As for rainbows, I can live with them, and as far as I am aware my wife hasn't seen any although my daughter and I have.
    For normal TV viewing I prefer the 36" as TV programmes are designed to be shown on smaller screens, and direct view TVs are perhaps better for day to day use. You can view from any position. You can't stand up and watch the 46". Not good if you or your wife want to do the ironing and watch a programme. Also it is obviously a better side on view from a direct view screen.
    I haven't seen a bad DLP TV ( I've seen the Sammy in action with a DVD fed from component, and the Optoma and the LG 44" set ) but for my money the Tosh really fitted the bill. It can of course play Region 1 discs and it is HD ready. Whether you like it's appearance or not is entirely a personal choice but additionally I found the large stand extremely useful, as it holds loads of items.
    Thomas.
     
  25. St_ve

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    The Sagem set u saw was the Sagem HD 50 the RD50 is made by Optoma & are different sets that look similar
     
  26. Razor

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    The best way to get round this is buy a RD65 as it has a much larger screen.

    For total proof that this problem can be over come I will get my missus to do the ironing whilst watching eastenders and report back. :smashin:
     
  27. Razor

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    3 chip front projectors are currently retailing around the £20,000 and up mark. I doubt we will see this technology in a rear pro for many years.

    As for waitng a few months you could always say that. To my knowledge there is no amazing new DLP rear pro advertised for launch in the next few months. We have just had the Sagem HD45 after many put back release dates. :)

    I would buy now.
     
  28. Gregory

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    I just got my money back on the Sagem 50 (two went phut & comet couldn't fix or replace), but am also redecorating the lounge at the moment. I'd love to believe that I'll have it done in just a few weeks, but it's more likely to be a few months realistically. Since the RD65 looks the best current bet, but seems to weigh the same as a small horse, I've decided to hold off for now as it saves moving the telly from the drawing room etc. (26" acer LCD is standing in for now - fine but teeny). So, getting finally to the point, at what stage do people expect anything more entertaining than the RD65 (and >= 50") to be out and about? (including plasma etc. if they are actually likely to be better PQ and so on).

    Cheers

    Greg
     
  29. St_ve

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    Probably by Christmas time but whatever new comes out it will pay to be cautious & wait a couple of month's for any problems to emerge and whatever else you do make sure you have a good demo before parting with your cash.
     
  30. Gregory

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    Thanks - but not sure I want to wait quite that long, so maybe the RD65 is the beast to go for
     

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