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Sagem Axium + DVI ?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by acanning, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. acanning

    acanning
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    Hi All

    I wonder if someone can help me?

    I have just purchased a Sagam Axium DLP rear-pro tv and it’s great. I am now thinking about upgrading my dvd player to make better use of the connection possibilities on the Axium. I could go with a player capable of outputting a progressive component signal which I’m sure will yield better results than the RGB output from my old Sony player.

    However, the tv also has a DVI-D input but I know it doesn’t support HDCP (Sagem told me) so what player should I buy which can have it’s HDCP disabled? I’m also a little confused about the various resolutions…the Axium manual says this about what it supports;

    Input signals
    Video signal :
    Native/Upscale : SDTV/EDTV (480i/480P)(576i/576P)
    HDTV (1080i/720P)
    PC signal:
    Native/Upscale : VGA (640x480), SVGA (800x600),
    XGA (1024x768), SXGA (1280x1024)

    Hopefully, this means something to someone out there!

    I have read on the forums that using a DVI input can improve the picture considerably hence my eagerness to give it a try.

    I know about the Samsung HD935 but these forums seem to give mixed reports on this player. Also, the Yamakawa seems ok but maybe a bit techie for me and I’m also not sure that it allows you to turn off HDCP.

    I watch mainly region 2 DVD’s but also have a few region 1 disks.

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    Thanks


    p.s sorry if this is the wrong forum - no doubt it will be moved if I've chosen the wrong one.
     
  2. Chris5

    Chris5
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    Maybe a Pioneer 757ai (if you can find one) I wish I had bought one when it was going cheap (£400) instead of the 868ai, it would have solved a lot of problems
     
  3. acanning

    acanning
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    Hi

    Thanks for the reply. Does the Pioneer allow you to disable HDCP or does it not have it at all?

    Regards
     
  4. Lefreck

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    If I remember well, the Pioneer 757Ai doesn't have a DVI out. What I find a little bit astonishing too, is that Sagem told you, that the Axium DVI output didn't support HDCP. I read sth. contrary in two reviews: in the german "Audiovision"-mag as well as in the french "Les Années Laser", they tested the Axium and stated that the Axium's DVI-out was HDCP-compatible. The german mag mentioned however that they couldn't get a picture with 576p via DVI; the Axium needed a 720p signal. So you couldn't, for example, use the Pioneer 668 dvd player as it only gives you a 576p-signal at its dvd-output. Hope this helps.
     
  5. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    acanning

    As far as I've seen you have absolutely no chance of disabling HDCP in any mainstream DVD player at this time - though I'm sure there are a bunch of folk trying very hard.

    I'm also positive we wont see 'unofficial' (wink wink) manufacturer hacks - as we do with multi region DVD players.

    There are (I'm sure) some obscure low cost DVD players with non HDCP DVI Video outputs coming in from China - you'll have to do a bit more searching for them though as I've not seen any for sale in the UK as yet.

    Your TV has a Faroudja DCDi Deinterlacer and a proprietary Video scaler built in so choose carefully when considering a new DVD player - otherwise you may end up paying for the same feature twice.

    To take best advantage of the video processing in your TV you want a well built DVD player to act as a transport to deliver Interlaced (non progressive) YUV video to your TV - if you pay extra for a DVD with Progressive output you are then bypassing the Faroudja DCDi Progressive processor you've already purchased.

    If you do go for a Progressive DVD player you will want to ensure its Progressive processing is better than the TV's Faroudja processor - which means your in the £1.5K+ DVD player market!!!

    The DVI INPUT on your TV is certainly billed as a PC Input in the brochure - which would suggest its not HDCP enabled; though this could easily vary from market to market and also on models built before or after May 04 when new EC rules added a 14% surcharge to HDCP enabled TV's and made some manufacturers rethink strategy on the inclusion of HDCP or not.

    Given an indication of your budget for a new DVD 'Transport' and I'm sure a few more suggestions will be forthcoming.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS Its Sagem not Sagam :)
     
  6. acanning

    acanning
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    Hello again

    Firstly, many thanks for your replies, they are most helpful.

    In view of what you have said, I think I will scrap the idea of using the DVI input for now. I don’t fancy buying a Chinese player just yet!!

    Joe, your comments were very useful but do leave me a little confused (please excuse my ignorance). What I’m trying to do is get the very best out of my new TV. I currently have quite an old Sony player (DVP-S325) which is in fine working order but can only output an RGB signal via it’s scart socket. All the magazines I read suggest that component output plus progressive scan is the way to go with more and more players including this feature. I naturally thought that as my TV has two sets of component inputs (1 progressive 1 interlaced) then the best I could do is to get a player with a progressive output. I wasn’t aware that by doing that I am bypassing the circuits in the TV which I don’t particularly want to do. The manual for the TV suggests that in order to obtain the very best quality I should use the progressive inputs! If I was to go for a new progressive player what output would I want to get the best out of the screen - I presume it would be 720p or do I not have any options in this regard?

    In terms of budget, I don’t really want to go over the £400-£500 mark so I’m not sure what that means – do I bother with a progressive player. Does progressive really give that much better results over interlaced? I know that Pioneer have released some fairly budget players with this feature but perhaps I should just hang on to the Sony for now and wait for the market to really move on. Decisions Decisions!!

    Regards

    Ashley

    p.s. I stand corrected on the spelling of Sagem.
     
  7. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Ashley

    Please don't scrutinise my posts too hard - spelling is not my forte!

    Progressive Scan - ah yes 'The Magazines' they do like catch all technologies that are 'the best'; strange then that you can now buy a Progressive DVD player at £100 from Pioneer and another one at £4k from the likes of Meridian. I wonder if they are identical!!!

    Progressive Processing - somewhere in your video chain your DLP TV will benefit from converting Interlaced video to Progressive video.

    Sagem have included a Faroudja DCDi processor (see http://gnss.com/dcdi.phtml) which converts all incoming Interlaced signals to Progressive signals before the signal hits the DLP engine in your TV.

    If you want to better the DCDi processor your going to have to get a pretty upmarket DVD player with a better progressive processor - a tough job at sub £500.00.

    Interlaced video - you can send your TV Composite, S-Video, RGB and YUV Video signals. All of these are Interlaced and YUV can also be Progressive (depending on the video processing in the source device)

    Component RGB and YUV video signals are very similar and in fact RGB may be preferable to YUV as its one less level of processing to be undertaken within the DVD player after its read the data from your DVD disc - which is stored as RGB on the disc.

    To make best use of the DCDi processor in your DLP TV you want a DVD source that will do as little additional video processing to your incoming signal as possible - you want Interlaced 480i for NTSC discs and Interlaced 576i for PAL; don't bother with a player that does scaling to 720P as again you already have a scaling engine in your DLP TV to take care of this.

    Keep in mind your DVD player is also delivering an Audio stream to your Yamaha AV Receiver so you may find audio benefits if you go for a new player.

    If you can I'd try and audition a NEW player which has Interlaced YUV and RGB into your TV and see if it makes a difference over your Sony or not - doing a comparison on a different TV is not relevant as the video engine in your TV is pretty sophisticated and will play a big part in the overall picture quality.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  8. acanning

    acanning
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    Dear Joe

    Once again, thanks for your reply – I believe that I am beginning to see the light!!

    I have a friend who owns a modest Pioneer player with component outputs so I can do a direct comparison with RGB. It will be interesting to see how well my Sony performs against a more modern player. I will steer clear of progressive players until I win the lottery.

    I am very grateful for your help but I noticed that your reply was posted at 11.29pm!! Are you nocturnal or can’t you get enough of this AV stuff?

    Many thanks

    Ashley

    p.s. I assume that YUV means component!?
     
  9. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Ashley,

    Yes, Joe does keep some very strange hours! ;) You are correct that YUV is component video, as is YPbPr and YCbCr.

    Steve
     
  10. Boris Blank

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    Optoma in the US are just about to release the RD50a (the Axium is the clone of the RD50a) that does have HDCP and uses the HD2+ chip. I would think that we may very well see Sagem's with these features as standard in the UK shortly.

    Also, older non HDCP sets are being retro-fitted with HDCP - see here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=402660&highlight=rd50

    Whether this will happen in the UK is another matter but I wonder if you could buy the upgrade and install it yourself?

    Paul
     
  11. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello PaulB

    I believe we will definitely see the 65" unit released under the Optoma/ThemeScene banner in the UK in the near future - though I believe some debate is still going on about the 50" unit; I guess the powers that be at Optoma don't want to hack of Sagem (who look like a big customers for Optoma).

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  12. Hellicopter

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    Joe-Is the EU 14% surcharge on equipment with or without HDCP?
     
  13. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hellicopter

    Its on equipment that has the ability to be HDCP enabled as far as I can tell - which is why Pioneer and other Plasma Display manufacturers are stuck with having to have it permanently switched off on the latest displays or hike the prices.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  14. sticker

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    I think Joe is a Vampire :laugh:
     

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