sagem 50" versus 45"

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by skaps, Mar 13, 2005.

  1. skaps

    skaps
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    i am just about to replace my axium 50 inch screen for the new 45. are there any pitfalls. i am happy with the 50, perhaps a touch big. its developed a fault and comet have said pick another tv. second bite of the cherry and the 45" seems perfect option
    any opinions good or bad welcomed
     
  2. philip41

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    Please see here and i am on a bit of a downer with this set. And read the many other Sagem 45 threads.
     
  3. St_ve

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    Saw the SagemHD45 yesterday in Comet's it's got a lot worse picture quality than it's bigger brother.The Sagem 50 might not be able to recieve hidef off sky next year
    but if u had the Sagem 45 there would'nt be any reason to get hi def.
    The 45 was showing hidef stuff & the picture looked soft faces lacked detail there was an anoying frostiness to the screen.I have seen better pictures on my Optoma watching Telewest.
     
  4. hifiboom

    hifiboom
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    now all the people will call Sagem to replace their HD45 sets with the HD50.
    hehehehe

    But you are right and not joking .........
     
  5. Razor

    Razor
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    Such a shame that the HD45 doesnt perform as well as it looks. I had high hopes for the HD-45.
     
  6. hifiboom

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    I think Razor you should be pleased with your set: Although Optoma has the R1 problem, you really get one of the best picture quality on R2 without any dropdowns, and you will be able to recieve HDTV in future, because it has HDCP.

    I don`t think that new models with xHD3 and xHD4 won`t be that much better than your set, it will be marginal.

    And maybe they will cut down things like DCDi to save production costs on their products.

    We will see.

    Some times industry pull out high-end technology for a good price, and I think the Optoma display is one of these pieces.

    you should love your set, it does what it should do: give you a brilliant picture quality.
     
  7. St_ve

    St_ve
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    When anything new comes on the market don't get taken in by the hype wait a couple of months so you know what problems or not the set has and allways demo the set
    & try the alternatives before buying.
     
  8. Razor

    Razor
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    Hifiboom

    I am pleased with the RD65 now I have sorted the NSTC problem via pc. The picture still makes me smile and chuckle to myself. I know its sad but I always get excited with HD material, the detail is excellant especially since you veiwing a 65' screen. You can see alot more detail than you can with a smaller screen and it doesnt suffer from rainbows or blurring.

    There doesnt seem to many RD65 owners out there. If lounge size is a problem then please consider an extension after all £4000 for a 65' screen is cheap, if you offset the cost of a 65' plasma (£12000+) that means you save £8000 off an extension, get bigger house and a big DLP display.

    Simple really
     
  9. Mark H99

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    I've been thinking about the samsung, but it's far too big now iv'e seen it in the flesh. I couldn't see any frostienness on the HD d45, but the white did seem ultra bright, the other option is the sagem 50 which comet are now selling for £1500 including the stand, what are the chances of being able to get a work around for the high def problems when hi def comes out
     
  10. Razor

    Razor
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    Mark its gamble which at the moment says there wont be a work around.
     
  11. Mark H99

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    damm, i took my wife in to see the samsung and she's still not talking to me !!! I suspect it might not be worth my while getting it !! She still wants a plasma to go over our living room fire place, and i can see her point, but i dont want to end up with a pw7 that wont work with SKY HD or is such low res that it doesn't compare with a DLP set. Why is life never easy.She likes both the sagems, but prefers the look of the 50 to the 45, now im thinking i might go back to the optoma and live without 60hrz. I could be tempted by a sagem 50 for £1500 includding the stand
     
  12. St_ve

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    The Sagem50" looks excellent value compared to it's sibling.
    The Optoma has an excellent picture quallity, i reckon u could build a HTPC for not much more than £300 to handle DVD region one playback with excellent quality
    A HTPC that will handle Hi def & the latest games TV tuner large hardrive ect will prob cost £800 +
     
  13. hifiboom

    hifiboom
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    I`m sure girls like it more the bigger it is.
     
  14. Mark H99

    Mark H99
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    I already have a PC that I believe would be a suitable spec, AMD Athlon 3500+, MSI K8N Diamond, 2 x 10,000 rpm 74 GB raptors in Raid 0, 120 gb maxtor, 2048 mb Ram, and a Radeon X850 XT PCI E graphics card.
    If the optoma was about £1500 it would be a direct choice between that an the Sagem 50, but tbh I'm liking the Saem 50 at £1500 with stand, Apart from the HDMI everyoes is agreed it's a good set without any problems ?? or have I missed something somewhere ??
     
  15. Razor

    Razor
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    Mark

    It might just scrap the barrel, might I suggest upgrading you system to dual 4000 AMD64 with 512meg Ultra 6900 in SLI. Apart from that your total memory is fine but you could do with a bigger hard drive.... LOL. ;)

    A walk in the park... Nice system.

    I have a 3400 AMD64 with a X800XTPE and High def is gob smacking. I cant wait for Sky HD.
     
  16. Mark H99

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    lol im such an idiot, you actually had me worried there. :clap: I've only just rebuilt it so i was kind of hoping it would be ok.
     
  17. Razor

    Razor
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    :thumbsup:
     
  18. Mark H99

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    so do i snap comets hand off for the 50+ and take my chances when HD comes around, or do I wait and see what the next crop of DLP sets brings ? I've got about £2000 to spend.
    I've got a sony amp and DVD player, a PS2 and an Xbox, and TV is through Sky (not +atm) We don't have an aerial so only use Sky. I'd like to include a HD DVD recorder with my TV, so the sagem 50 with a DVD recorder is looking like a good deal. Could I still watch HD DVD's on a 50 sagem through component ? cause if I could that may swing it
     
  19. Razor

    Razor
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    You could watch HD through component but that would be missing the point completely. The digital DVI/HDMI connection is a big step up from component. A similar comparason would be prologic sound to dolby digital or composite to component. If you can stretch your budget a few hundred more the Samsung 50' would be a very good choice. If you cant and your prepaired to have a pc in your lounge then i would go for the Optoma. I am in the process of speccing a permant HTPC and not my office/games machine which I am now using.

    The beauty of a pc is that you could support both HD formats, ie Blue Ray or HD DVD in one machine and there are more than a few HD sources for download or purchase off the web.

    24, Lost, Enterprise, Smallville, Alias, CSI etc....

    You can also support WMV HD which what most of these downloads are. I have purchased a few films from germany (The Hunter, Gangs of New York, Underworld etc) in this format and it blows any SD dvd or window HD demo out of the water.

    The choice is yours, but I wouldnt depend on a HDCP fix or box to answer your problems as it may never happen. Nor would I consider purchasing a set that only displayed HD through an inferior input ie. component.

    Component is an analoge input vs DVI/HDMI as a digital input with 1:1 mapping.

    If you want the best current DLP set up your going to have to increase your budget or scarafices will have to be made. You could wait but I fear you would be in the same position but with newer technology that has new faults or stregths etc... The only good sets will be the sets selling for around the same price. A bit like the pc market. A decent pc but not top of the range package is always around £1,000 top of the range pc's are normally around the £2,000 mark give or take a few hundred.

    :smashin:
     
  20. hifiboom

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    IF YOU INPUT 720p component or 1080i component the quality will be very good, nearly as good as the digital input.

    Sadly I am sure there will be no HD DVD player that does output 720p or 1080i over the component, but súrely it is possible.

    But you won`t get that much quality loss if you are using analog input.

    Razor why do you think so?
     
  21. Razor

    Razor
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    You just do Hifiboom, the signal gets converted from digital to analoge. Also with the digital connection you have 1:1 pixel mapping which means each pixel is where its ment to be. The colours are also better, richer and again true beacuse they are digital and not analoge. Thats the whole reason behind HDCP, if they didnt have this you would be able to copy a perfect HD version of a film, a paradise for pirates. Basically the ultimate copy. Try and demo if you can.
     
  22. hifiboom

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    thats not completely right razor, as I am a bit in computers I know that you also have 1:1 pixel mapping with component inputs.

    Component is nearly the same as the D-SUB and I also know that the D-SUB gives you nearly perfect picture until a resolution of 1280x1024. On higher resolutions its true that DVI digital transfer is better than D-SUB and you ll be able to see the difference, but for the TV it should not make a big dif.

    It is just important that the component input/output is one of higher quality. and that he does support HDTV resolution (720p/1080i)

    do you have a component HDTV source ?

    I saw the component HDTV picture and it was perfect on Sagem HD50, I swear.

    You may be right if the component input is one of lower quality, the DVI should be prefered.
     
  23. hifiboom

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    did you ever have heard an analog dat record from a compact disc.

    how many times will you be able to copy the CD->DAT->DAT->DAT until you`ll be able to hear noise if you are using anlog in/out and if the in/out is of good quality. I`m sure you can copy 10 times and you won`t even hear much difference.

    HDCP enabled players won`t output HDTV on component because film industries know that an analog copy will also be quite good. But compared to an audio copy the video copy will suffer from more quality loss due to the MPEQ compression. That do not want any copy of there material!!!!!!

    MPEQ2/4 decoder -> native video -> analog output -> analog input -> mpeg encoder ( quality loss) -> record on digital media.
     
  24. St_ve

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    The Sagem50 is far better value than the Sagem45 as it has a far better picture but it is a HD2 set & has worse contrast than the OptomaRD50 & is also missing HDCP if i was buying again my choice would be

    1:OptomaRD50 because of the great picture & i'm a PC addict so a HTPC is a bonus also i'm not made of money & its cheaper than my second choice

    2:Samsung 50L7 havent demoed it but everything points to it haveing a picture at least as good as the RD50, it's a gorgeous looking set price around
    £2400 & comes with its own stand although you would need another for DVD player ect.

    3:Sagem50 very good value at £1500 unlikely to get any cheaper as any stock remaining is sure to shift at this price very good picture with hidef ,
    good picture with DVD but whites are overbright & can at times get burnt out.Cannot really comment about the TV picture as the source they use in Comet is so bad
    It's the lack of HDCP not HDMI that's the problem. In America the very similar Optoma RD50 with the HD2 chip has had a fix at cost to customers of around £300 so it's technically possible.
    :rolleyes:
     
  25. St_ve

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    Hifi i've used the VGA & DVI from computer to RD50 & there is a big difference in quality easily noticable VGA= good DVI=Very good +
    I remember reading a post by Mose who's got the Sagem 50 & the Denon 3910 DVD player with the DVI out he is really ***ed that he cannot connect the 3910 via DVI because of the HDCP issue.He has to use component & he has said that a PC with DVI just edges his Denon 3910 on picture quality (Denon 3910 is one of the very best DVD players u can buy.)

    saw the component HDTV picture and it was perfect on Sagem HD50, I swear.
    I too thought it was perfect watching Magic of Flight hidef on the Sagem50
    but i have since seen Praying Mantiss documentery on the Optoma.
     
  26. Razor

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  27. hifiboom

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    that surely is true. Some TFT/LCDs have worse analog VGA inputs and the DVI sometimes gives you a much better performance if the analog input is low quality.

    And at least I don`t know how good the analog inputs on Sagem 50 or Optoma RD50 are, but if they are of higher quality, you could get easily a very good picture quality on the Sagem with HD component input.
     
  28. hifiboom

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    and this is one step up in quality that much? I didn`t say DVI is not the best input method. It is. Of course. But the question was:


    You can watch HDTV through the component inputs with very good quality.


    And I got to say:
    And it also could be a problem that the ati card does not output the standard voltage on the VGAand make the difference in quality.

    Nvidia and ati cards also differ in output quality on analog output.

    While a DVD player is optimized on analog output quality, it isn`t that important for a PC VGA ouput.

    going to bed now, wish you all nice dreams :) zzz zzz zzz :boring: ;)
     
  29. Mark H99

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    Ok sorry, what i meant was HD DVD's through the 50's DVI, which it looks like you can't :( If it was only SKY HD that was incompatable with the set I probably wouldn't be too put off, I would just hope somebody came up with an adapter, or I would just use the 50 for gaming and films, and get a LCD (technology perfected in a couple of years :p ) for watching Sky HD on.
    Of all the sets I've seen the Samsung seems to have the least wrong with it. but I'm sure there are tosh and LG owners out there who are happy with their sets. My wife doesn't like the samsung, I could work on her but I think it would overpower our front room somewhat. Of all the other sets that all seem to have a fault somewhere along the line, the Sagem 50 would be our choice. I know it's the same size as the samsung, but it seems more compact without the speakers on the sides and less imposing than the sammy. The RD50 is a lovely looking set, but the region 1 issue and their poor customer care mentioned on these forums, gives me cold feet. then the HD 45 which a couple of weeks ago was my number 1 choice, but now i'm not so sure, i like the picture of the two that i've seen, but comet is a rubbish place to demo them, and there does seem to be more and more posts with people complaining about issues with their new HD45's. So that really puts me right back where I started about two months ago, except I know more about the technology.
    my options are Plasma..... at my budget will not be very good, low res and not HD ready.
    Sony LCD rear pro......... not HD ready and a bit dark looking.
    DLP....... see above
    or wait and see what the next generation turns out like and take my chances with one of them.
    Well I've got until the end of the month because our front room wont be finished until then, I'll probably end up with the Sammy and ear ache from the wife :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  30. St_ve

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    Quote:
    Could I still watch HD DVD's on a 50 sagem through component ?
    not sure about that but i am sure if u could you would not see them at their best.
    I have used two ATI cards on the RD50 the 9800pro & X800pro through vga & DVI
    & i did'nt have any probs & the picture quality was fine are they not compatable with the German electricity supply?
    I have been lead to believe that you will not be able to watch sky hidef through component in Britain i don't know the situation in Germany.
     

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