Sad news from Audiolab at Hammersmith WHat HiFi Show

edward

Active Member
Had a word with the IAG Head of Engineering, as you’d expect from me. Nice guy, and pretty frank. I asked when we were likely to see IAG versions of the AV32R DP or the AV192R. He said there was no plan for develop either; they’re too high end for the IAG AV product suite.

I asked if IAG was planning to squat on the IPR for both or whether they were likely to sell it onto someone else so that these products did see the light of day once more. He said that they might use some of the technology from them at some stage in the future – i.e. they’ll squat on them.

So, Gents, there you have it, confirmation if we needed it. If you’re looking for a high end AV product, you should not expect it to come from IAG. Depressing news akin to the desecration of the world’s finest works of art, but at least we can now move on. But who makes a product as good?
 

Mike192

Active Member
Sad news indeed Edward although I can't say I'm too surprised. However, I did think that we were originally given the impression that versions of the high end gear would be released at some stage. Wasn't there mention of a different brand name - dvAudiolab or something like that?

I wonder what this means for software support? I certainly don't expect we will get any new functionality but I have reported a couple of bugs to them in the last year or so and I know others have too. Will we ever get fixes for these?
 

edward

Active Member
Sadly, No and No.
No talk of a different range of AV kit - seems IAG is commited to mediocrity - that is where they see their market (don't expect to see it in their marketing blurb though).

The aspect the man mentioned was the software access to hardware but no word on software support for the existing kit.
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
I had come to this conclusion some time ago and therefore decided not to upgrade any of my Tag equipment. It is just not IAGs market.
 

alexs2

Well-known Member
Being perfectly honest guys,you cannot be surprised by any of this,and surely no-one can have expected IAG to be willing to place versions of the DP or AV192R on the market when everyone knew how expensive they were for TAG to make.

We do all at least have some product support in the form of repairs,however slow some of these may be,which remains a LOT more than most owners of equipment made by either defunct or bought-out companies.

I will continue to enjoy using my DP for as long as it is either current or functional,and would then replace it as I would any other piece of equipment which can no longer be serviced.
 

edward

Active Member
But having bought the IPR, Alex, the major cost has already been sorted. OK, setting up the assembly line to produce the required boards wouldn;t be cheap but I'd be surprised if IAG couldn't produce them for a couple of hundred quid a piece and find a hungry market in the 2-4K markets for them - if the QA was good.

The squandering of such brilliant IPR upsets me, but I'm also upset that I don't know of anything else in the same space that I could move to if necessary.

It's not nice to dream about someone's downfall, not even the evil empire's, but...The demise of IAG would give us a chance of that IPR being handed onto someone who would use it, lock stock and barrel, in a new product.
 

Polecatpete

Active Member
A great shame..... :(

They must have got a great deal when they bought TMA for them to be able to take the worst processor (by a long shot) out of the 4 and launch it as a serious competitor :suicide:

The only plus from the show was finding out they will be launching a PPA for around £400 ish. A small consolation....
 

caleb

Active Member
Sad news indeed.

We are even worse down here in the arse end of the world.

The importer who took pleasure in selling me my kit now doesnt want to know you when you go in the shop.

So we are also stuck with equipment that we can use until it eventually dies on us (a long time we hope!).

Anyone brave enough to suggest the next replacement of better quality??
 

alexs2

Well-known Member
edward said:
The squandering of such brilliant IPR upsets me, but I'm also upset that I don't know of anything else in the same space that I could move to if necessary.

It's not nice to dream about someone's downfall, not even the evil empire's, but...The demise of IAG would give us a chance of that IPR being handed onto someone who would use it, lock stock and barrel, in a new product.

Yes,waste of IPR is always a sad thing....

But,edward,as I'm sure you've seen elsewhere,when this sort of this happens,the IPR rarely resurfaces.
 

edward

Active Member
You're just trying to cheer me up, Alex, admit it ;-)
 

edward

Active Member
Well done, Mike!! I was just reaching for my razor blade. Just tell me the Samaritans didn't put you up to a bit of Photoshop trickery.

How come their UK Head of Engineering knew nothing of this? I don't think he was lying. Maybe this isn't a "joined up" company. I certainly dont trust them enough to buy from them but at least the IPR isn't lost to the world (assuming they've used more than just the case design). We might even be able to get proper support for our kit. Yes!!!

Ha! There's a rainbow on my shoulder once more. Thank you, thank you!!
 

Polecatpete

Active Member
I must say though, apart from the awful colour, the 8000Q certainly felt a solid piece of kit - Dare I say it, but more so than the PA20...

Without wishing to drag you down Edward into depression, I also heard that there were no plans to launch the 32/192 but more because they don't have the facilities to build them so maybe these great machines will see the light of day at somepoint.

Did they mention any news of a DVD player? I was told earlier this year that they were working on the development of a new player but I've heard nothing since. Any one know of anything?
 

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
edward said:
It's not nice to dream about someone's downfall, not even the evil empire's, but...The demise of IAG would give us a chance of that IPR being handed onto someone who would use it, lock stock and barrel, in a new product.
As IAG (unlike TMA) understand the concept of profit and ROI, I can't see that happening myself. There is also the moot point that if IAG looked at the costings and baulked at them, I can't see any sane company coming to a different conclusion.
 

Jules Tohpipi

Active Member
Tons of fun said:
As IAG (unlike TMA) understand the concept of profit and ROI, I can't see that happening myself. There is also the moot point that if IAG looked at the costings and baulked at them, I can't see any sane company coming to a different conclusion.
Quite so. And as I understand it - looking in my amateur way at TAG`s accounts - not in one year did they exceed the turnover of the company they had bought i.e. Audiolab. Furthermore (if I`ve interpreted this correctly), even if cost of materials for TMA products would have been zero - which it clearly wasn`t - then TMA would still have been making a thumping loss. Hence no doubt why Udo declared in the BAJ that the products were being sold too cheaply.

Thankfully TMA had the grace, upon their withdrawal, to ensure their customers had some back-up (rather than just disappearinging into the sunset with their unsaleable company). And bizarrely, to enable the return to the market of a range of affordable products beloved by so, so many - Audiolab.

Yes, it`s a shame that such exotica seems to be disappearing. But as not enough people bought this exotica for it to survive (even though the products were the best, with a prestige brandname, and being sold far too cheaply) then one can but conclude that - in giving it up - IAG have no more lost their marbles than had TMA.
 

edward

Active Member
Not worried too much about the colour - I already have a beautiful black case. Sure, it does show marks when my smallest prods it with a stucky lunch hook (maybe, they're my wife's - I'll have to check the prints) but they wipe off - its the fragility of the electronics that is worrying me.

Incidentally, if they aren't going to make these things, do you think the images from CES 2005 were old TAG boxes with sticky logo labels? They seem to have done a fine job of digging out the TAG logo and replacing it. Do you think the Americans wouldn't have spotted that and peeled the stickies off to see what was underneath? Surely they didn't set up lines to make those cases and a stand at CES just to tease me.

As for the DVD player... get a really decent HTPC instead - far better value for money as a source a lot more fun and control.

Tons of fun, do you think the AV world would be better off if companies like Meridian, EAD and Lexicon took your advice and quite this market because there is inadequate ROI? As you'd expect, I disagree. I doubt that Lexcon's and Meridian's costs are so different from TAG's but they're still firmly in busines. What is different is the vigour of their sales organisation and the number of units over which they have to try and recover those costs.
 

Mike192

Active Member
I do think that the units displayed at CES 2005 were almost certainly the original TAG products with the labels replaced. But why introduce a new brand (DVAudiolab) at a major exhibition if you have no intention of releasing the products? Perhaps at that time it was their intention to release the products. Maybe they have now changed their mind?
 

benzol

Active Member
Mike192 said:
I do think that the units displayed at CES 2005 were almost certainly the original TAG products with the labels replaced. But why introduce a new brand (DVAudiolab) at a major exhibition if you have no intention of releasing the products? Perhaps at that time it was their intention to release the products. Maybe they have now changed their mind?
Yes you are probably right there - that they have changed their mind (or they have done the maths).

I hoped they would get along with the complete product range. I personally can't see them winning the market big time. OK there is a "vintage-user" market for the old Audiolab Hifi stuff. I don't see that they will be win on the Home cinema market with the AV30 (ups 8000AV) .. and no DVD is no good if someone wants to sell a "system".

I'd like them to get to profits so there is someone to repair my AV32. I think if IAG goes wrong on Audiolab there will be no-one picking the TMA service up.

Hope Dies Last ... but for me the breaking news take my optimism
 

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
edward said:
Tons of fun, do you think the AV world would be better off if companies like Meridian, EAD and Lexicon took your advice and quite this market because there is inadequate ROI? As you'd expect, I disagree. I doubt that Lexcon's and Meridian's costs are so different from TAG's but they're still firmly in busines. What is different is the vigour of their sales organisation and the number of units over which they have to try and recover those costs.
Clearly these companies don't have an inadiquate ROI or they would get out of the areas where they weren't making at least some money. You have in part answered your own question because the "vigour" with which these brands sell results in a share of the marketplace that would preclude (as TMA showed and IAG have declined to repeat) another company attempting to join the party.
 

IanS

Active Member
Mike192 said:
I do think that the units displayed at CES 2005 were almost certainly the original TAG products with the labels replaced. But why introduce a new brand (DVAudiolab) at a major exhibition if you have no intention of releasing the products? Perhaps at that time it was their intention to release the products. Maybe they have now changed their mind?
They may have changed their minds of course, but another option is perhaps they were/are looking at the dvAudiolab range purely for the US market.
 

edward

Active Member
You're right, Tons of fun. The air is pretty rare at the top of the AV processor market but there was surely enough to sustain 4 players. Who else is there? Lexicon? Meridian? Theta? Stereophile put the AV192R up in that class with only 3 other players so it didn't exactly gate-crash the party - it was there on merit. That is why the squandered IPR is such a disturbing prospect (and the fact that I might need mine repaired one day).
 

alexs2

Well-known Member
edward said:
You're right, Tons of fun. The air is pretty rare at the top of the AV processor market but there was surely enough to sustain 4 players. Who else is there? Lexicon? Meridian? Theta? Stereophile put the AV192R up in that class with only 3 other players so it didn't exactly gate-crash the party - it was there on merit. That is why the squandered IPR is such a disturbing prospect (and the fact that I might need mine repaired one day).
One you forgot edward,which is probably the most logical successor to the DP/192s of the world...the TACT(aka Lyngdorf Audio) TCS III has virtually all of the facilities of the TAG processors incl room EQ etc,but the price is as high as any of the current competition,and certainly not the relative "bargain" that the TAGs were.

As has been alluded to elsewhere,and here,TAG were not exactly making money on the items being sold,and if nothing else,Ron Dennis is an extremely shrewd businessman...no-one survives and wins in the cut-throat world of F1 for 20+yrs without being able to make tough decisions.
 

edward

Active Member
Thanks Alex. Hadn't thought of them - just too much of a Yankophile when it comes to AV kit.

I imagine Ron lost a bit on it, so it wasn;t such a hard-nosed decision for him. I just wished he'd found a more sympathetic buyer. Mmm... lets see whether this DVAudiolab thing is real.

I thought something was wrong when I tried to buy an AV32R SP from my local AudioT and they wanted to sell me Chord instead.
 

alexs2

Well-known Member
edward said:
I imagine Ron lost a bit on it, so it wasn;t such a hard-nosed decision for him. I just wished he'd found a more sympathetic buyer.

I thought something was wrong when I tried to buy an AV32R SP from my local AudioT and they wanted to sell me Chord instead.
Ihave no real feelings one way or the other about IAG as a whole,but I'd have to say that a buyer that's prepared to honour the service requirements of an established customer network isn't always the easiest thing to find,whatever may be said about the speed of that service.

As to the price differential between the AV32R/SP and the Chord AV processor(there's another one I forgot...but no room EQ),I can see why your dealer might have wanted to shift one of those.
 

Kenny Glasgow

Well-known Member
After a long hard think about this thread and the future I've decided to sell-off my TAG gear :eek: :eek:

If there was going to be developments of the AVaudiolab range then I would have been happy to wait for a universal player and perhaps a new processor but it doesn't look likely now.

As I'm working away so much my TAG gear doesn't get the use it deserves these days and I've STILL got my DP and 100x5R to unbox.... :suicide:
 

edward

Active Member
If you post them for sale, Kenny, what do you think the DP will go for? Is it black or Silver?
 

Kenny Glasgow

Well-known Member
Edward

Who knows but I'm not gonna cut my nose off to spite my face :eek:

Listened to a Linn and Meridian set-up over the past two days and I cannot say that they were better than my TAG gear with SP AV32 :eek: :eek:

Did listen to a Denon 3910 with AV11A-XV and was surprised how well they worked together. Not as good as my TAGs but for £3.5k, pretty impressive
 

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