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Sacked, what do I do now?!?!?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by ChrisNic, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. ChrisNic

    ChrisNic
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    I hate to find myself typing this but im hoping that you guys (and gals) may be able to give me some advice on my situation.

    I worked for a nameless company for 11 months after leaving uni, it wasnt my dream job but the money was ok and it was getting me good experience as a retail manager. I discovered one of my staff was stealing, not a large amount but there were a few things I discovered that I didnt like the look of.

    I went to my boss about what I had discovered and at the same time I got something off my chest that I had done 6 months previously. Basically what I had done was buy some products at a discounted price before Xmas, then change my mind a month or so later and knowingly refund 2 of the products at full price. Total gain to me aprox £23 which I then paid back before approaching my line manager with my confession. The reason why I confessed was that I had a feeling that my member of staff knew what I had done and didnt want him to blackmail me with it.

    To cut a long story short it all blew up in my face and I was dismissed on the grounds of gross misconduct. My line manager as good as told me that he had to sack me because of my confession as it was company policy, aparently regardless of my hard work and previous conduct. I have no choice but to put the incident behind me so no more appeals etc but I want to paint myself in a good light for future employers without lying. I have a very good reference from a previous employer I was with for 3 years but obviously have nothing from this last job and the question as to why I left is bound to come up in an interview.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Astaroth

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    I guess the question you really have to answer is why you did the deed in the first place and arguably for such a small sum of money.

    I personally wouldnt lie but neither would I voluntarily bring up the matter. My recent experience has been the question of why you left your previous role doesnt actually come up all that frequently.

    Did you sign a "confession" at your previous employers confirming your verbal statement to your line manager?
     
  3. ChrisNic

    ChrisNic
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    God only knows why I did it in the 1st place, just a moment of stupidity. I didnt handle the situation at all well at the time, at every point in the disciplinary process I went through what I had done but had no reason for doing it. I suppose that I was hoping that they would view my honesty as a good thing, combine that with my good performance within the company and let me keep my job with a final written warning.

    No i wouldnt voluntarily bring up the matter in the interview but I just know it will come up and I wont know how to handle it.
     
  4. mjn

    mjn
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    Don't forget, by law an employer cannot give you a "bad" reference, all they can do is say "no comment"

    I worked for Compaq a few years ago, and they don't give references out full stop!
     
  5. Jenn

    Jenn
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    What law is that ? I'm interested because if such a law exist it makes any referencing quite pointless. I thought that as long as the employer says the truth it should be fine ?
     
  6. mrtbag

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    I'm not sure of the law but as an example, if an employee is always late, the employer should just not mention it in depth. They cannot for example say:

    XXX was late every day for past six months.

    A lot of companies get round this, by asking one simple question when they request a reference from your previous employer. That is, Would you employ them again? Obviously only the yes answers get looked at.
     
  7. The Dude

    The Dude
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    the best bet is to lie through your teeth at any future interviews... irrespective of whether you got sacked or not. :thumbsup:

    As long as you come across as knowing your stuff, your previous employer is usually of very little concern to the potential new one..

    It's a lot like dating.....the truth about your past nearly always hurts you, so you keep it top secret until it's too late, and/or no longer matters... :D
     
  8. lynx

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    Thats not correct,mjn. The content must be accurate though or they could be looking at being put in the firing line with regards to a lible claim. There is nothing to prevent a poor reference though.
     
  9. stevegreen

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    Have a read of this I remembered it from a while ago. Similar situation I believe :smashin:
     
  10. Mep

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    the trouble for employers is that if you give too good a reference and the candidate doesn't live it up to you risk being sued by the new employer and if you give a negative one you risk being sued by the employee........so often an employer will provide no reference at all or a meaningless one.........both of which will be interpreted negatively anyway......
     
  11. ChrisNic

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    Thanks for posting that link Steve, I will have a look through it later.

    Re references your right about companies having to be very careful but they have to be honnest. If I asked them for a reference in theory it should say that I was dismissed for gross misconduct but apart from that one occurance I was a hard working manager, as that is the truth.

    The problem I am having is that on the forms have filled in I have given another reason for leaving so I atleast get an interview. Probably not sensible but im hoping that I will have a better chance of clearing my name in an interview when and if the question comes up.
     
  12. mrtbag

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    They cannot state you were sacked for Gross Misconduct.
     
  13. Steve N

    Steve N
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    I used to be involved with recruitment as part of my responsibilities in my previous job.
    Any HR (personnel) dept of a reasonably sized company will know how to read between the lines of a reference. They will also ask for confirmation of start/end dates of employment to ensure there are no unexplained gaps.
    Contrary to one of the other replies, I have seen plenty of references that refer to the dismissal of an employee due to gross misconduct or more than one written warning for the same offence etc.
    In fact it could be argued that an employer could seek redress from a previous employer if they gave a misleading reference. For example :- Stating someone was of good character when they dismissed him/her for dishonesty. What if that person was employed on the strength of that reference and then ran off with the petty cash.

    In your position I would write to "nameless" and ask them to tell you how they will respond to requests for references from future employees.
    You have a right to know as you have a right to challenge anything that is inaccurate.
    The best you can hope for is for is an assurance that they will confirm the details of your employment there, that you were punctual, sober and performed your duties adequately etc. and refer to the reasons for your leaving ambiguously.

    As time passes and, hopefully, you find employment, I would be tempted to drop this employer from my CV.
    As things are at the moment though, subject to how they word your reference, I think you have no option but to explain frankly what happened. Some prospective employers will find your honest response attractive and view you as someone who will repay any trust given with gratitude and loyalty.

    Good luck
     
  14. Solomon Grundy

    Solomon Grundy
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    provide the name of someone else who worked there who will provide a decent reference...do you have a mate there? Use their name instead...
     
  15. The Dude

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    that was my first reply too mate... :D

    the 'virtual manager' routine always works for me too.... provide a made up name and contact number, and leave the reference chaser to bang heads with the receptionist until they quite literally give up......

    half the places I've worked, the manager would rather just give you the job than admit they couldn't manage a phone call... :rotfl:

    Not much use with big firms, unfortunately....
     
  16. ChrisNic

    ChrisNic
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    Thanks for your advice Steve N, I suppose it cant do any halm writing to *cough* and trying to find out what sort of reference they would provide.

    I have every intention to explain what happened to any prospective employer but I just cant think how to put it. As I said before I didnt explain myself well during the disciplinary process so I fear I will shoot myself in the foot again.

    On reading the thread over at thedvdforums I dont feel very positive about getting another management position in retail, that really gets me down..... :(
     
  17. GalacticaActual

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  18. Lex

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    You bought X item at Y price. You returned X item and refunded yourself Z price by mistake. As soon as you realised the MISTAKE you had made you went immediately to your manager and explained the situation. To your complete amazement they decided that this simple oversight was gross misconduct on your part. You tried to explain that this was an honest mistake, but they wouldn't hear it.
    This total overreaction by them was at the time completely inexplicable and bewildering - however you have since heard rumours that they were looking to make redundancies... and this was the perfect excuse for them.


    :rotfl: :D


    Or you could tell them that you used to be a thieving toe rag but you have seen the error of your ways and you are now a reformed character! ;)
     
  19. Mep

    Mep
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    Firstly and obviously don't mention it at all if it doesn't come up.....if it does go down the line suggested by Lex - the first bit of course! (should be a politician!) unfortunately nobody will give you brownie points for being Mr Honest.
     
  20. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    They just say you were sacked. Then the HR department makes a phone call and finds out your misdemeanors over the phone.
     
  21. JonMace

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    As an employer it is VERY dificult to give a bad refference, you can refuse to give a refference at all which will deemed to be bad unless there is the wording that X company never gives refferneces on any personnel, this is not because of liable but because of deffermation of character.

    That said if the refference request is worded correctly a bad refference can be given i.e. if direct questions are asked then they can be answered honestly. For instanced:-

    How many days in the last 12 months were taken of as sick leave?

    How many days in the last 12 months was x late?

    What was Xs reason for leaving?

    If these questions are directly asked then they can be answered, if they are not then anything that is deffermential to the employee should not be mentioned.

    Basicly if you had a good relationship with your manager (from what you said he only sacked you because of company policy and felt it was wrong) then go and see him face to face and ask him if he will provide a refference.

    Also you need to think long and hard about the way you are describing things:-

    The employee that you said was stealing, did they get sacked?

    You stated that you ammitted this because you were afraid of blackmail hardly sounds good or like a genuine misstake in the fisrt place.

    Think things through and what ever route you take know what you are going to say and believe it yourself.
     
  22. ChrisNic

    ChrisNic
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    I told the truth at every point, I think that was my downfall. I did what I did knowingly and really believed that the company would take on board that I was honnest with them about everything and that I was actually doing a good job.

    My old boss was reasonable but by the book, all references must come from the HR department so they would more than likely not provide one or just be a clinical reference that probably wouldnt answer any particular questions asked and simply state when I worked and that I was dismissed for gross misconduct (nothing but the truth and nothing that could come back to them).

    Yes the employee that was stealing did get sacked.

    Me and my parents view is that if the question comes up in an interview that I should be honnest and grovel i.e. try to get across that I am willing to do whatever for a second chance.
     
  23. Mr.D

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    I'd have sued.
     
  24. Lex

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    Is that true? I thought you said that you only admitted what you had done quite a while after you had done it, and only then because you thought you were gonna get grassed up anyway?
    I Don't mean to be overly blunt here Cheapskate, but your downfall was doing the deed in the first place. The fact that you got fired for admitting to it is hardly unreasonable... I am not saying that you don't deserve a second chance, but I think if you are being honest then you only have yourself to blame...
    In my experience employers hardly ever take up references anyway, so hopefully it wont be a problem for you... :)
     
  25. Lex

    Lex
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    Sued for what? :confused:
     
  26. Mep

    Mep
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    I think you are trusting too much on peoples good nature which doesn't normally come into play in these situations.
     
  27. ChrisNic

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    Yeah you are both right. I will just have to see what happens really, I did what I did and I just need to come to terms with that.

    In regard to telling the truth at every stage what I mean is that I could have dealt with the situation better and may not have put myself in this situation. I have good references from previous employers that isnt much of a problem unless they specifically want one from my previous employer (which I some do). I would just find it very hard working for a company with this dark cloud from my past hanging over me because if it came out it would hardly do me any good.....
     
  28. ChrisNic

    ChrisNic
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    Oh and if I hadnt said anything I would have been fine because the employee in question never used it against me....
     
  29. Mep

    Mep
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    how long were you with them?......could you maybe not even put them on your cv and explain a gap in employment away as travelling or something?
     
  30. ChrisNic

    ChrisNic
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    I was with them for 11 months but I did achieve a lot in that time and any prospective employer in retail would almost certainly spot that I have experience especially if I go for something in the same field as where I was (pretty specialist).

    I could easily do what you are suggesting as I only left Uni a year ago and it would be pretty normal to go traveling but that wouldnt gain me knowledge on recruitment, performance management, p&l's, kpi's, etc, etc
     

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