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S-video out from Which Digibox's?

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by NickBull, Nov 27, 2001.

  1. NickBull

    NickBull
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    Which Digi Box's, sky or ITV have S-video out?

    I have tried the only thing I have with S-video connected to the input on the Radeon All in wonder and the results were suprisingly good. It was a Sony DVD player and the picture was ok, if not brilliant, but would be perfect for Sport (all I'll need it for)

    Problem is that Phillips ITV digital box only has RGB and Composit out, composite through the Radeon was poo! Unwatchable!!!

    Really I need a digi box with S-video out, or a way to convert the RGB pictures to S-video if it is possible!

    Any ideas?

    Nick
     
  2. Ken

    Ken
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    Hi Nick,
    I don't know that you need to worry too much.
    I use composite from a ntl cable box. The trick is to run it through the DScaler program, which produces quite amazing detail.
    This is the site link:
    http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/deinterlace/
    Then download the latest version:
    DScaler310exe.zip

    Ken
     
  3. NickBull

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    Thanks Ken, but unfortunately the All-In_Wonder isn't supported by Dscaler! The results are pretty good with S-video, but strange and shimmery with Composite. I think the A-I-W chip does some de-interlacing, but the composite output from the Phillips ITV digital box is pretty poor, I even get shimering on my 32 inch tv!

    If it becomes a real prolem then I'm going to have to invest in a reasonable capture card or TV card, but obviously if I could get a free digibox with SVideo I'd be happy.

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  4. tryingtimes

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    Nick
    I could be wrong but I think the only one which does s-video is the SKY+ box. Not cheap.

    It's not a good situation for us HCPCers :(

    Go on - somebody tell me the Panasonic or Sony does it - please :)
     
  5. JohnAd

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    This device seems to get good reviews

    http://www.rgbtosvideo.com/


    I'm probably going to get one sometime.

    I would still think you would get even better results with DScaler but it should work with the Radeon.

    John
     
  6. Couch Potato

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    Hi,

    I've got an RGB to Svideo converter from Keene Electronics and it works fine... not as good as RGB but a damn site better than the Composite signal I was previously having to feed to my PJ (I wanted my TAG to do Video switching for everything other than DVD hence the reason for SVideo)

    Hope this helps.

    Steve
     
  7. NickBull

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    Thanks Guys,

    I'm not ready to shell out for SkyPlus yet, maybe £60 on the RGB-SVIDEO thing might be the wat to go.

    John,

    Do I need a new capture card/tv card to use Dscaler? Will It give me better results with a composite input than the All in wonder with S-video (it might be a cheaper option!)?

    I only want it for sporting events really, so pub type performance is acceptable! Definately not watching sports in a fully darkened room

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  8. JohnAd

    JohnAd
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    Nick

    I get pretty good results considering with composite and an OnDig box. With an Svideo convertor it should be even better.

    If I'm being picky with both football and rugby you get occational weave effects in stuff like the crowd pans and there are some jagged diagonals on things like the goal posts and pitch lines, I still think it is much better than pub CRT quality and about a zillion times better than the quad multi-screen thing they have at my gym. It does show up the compression artefacts a bit though.

    You will need a new card to run DScaler, but you'll get OK results with a PCTV Rave card which is £35 I think.

    This is the sort of picture you get off a sat box with composite

    http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/screenshots/Talk_Show_Screenshots.htm

    John
     
  9. NickBull

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    Thanks John,

    That is quite an impressive result, and cheaper than the RGB converter in the short term with that as the next upgrade! I'd be more than happy with pictures like that for sport!

    Does Dscaler work with composite and s-video? I suppose I should have a look at the site rather than asking you loads of questions!

    Thanks again

    Nick
     
  10. JohnAd

    JohnAd
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    Nick

    Yes it works with both, be warned that the capture quality is governed by lots of things like your power supply and no two people seem to get the same quality even with the same equipment.

    John
     
  11. NickBull

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    I have a Quiet pc PSU, 300 watts. Are there any that you know cause problems?


    For the sake of £30 odd pounds it's worth a try to see what results I get. It can't be worse than composite straight into the all-in-wonder that gave a very good impression of a pub screen afyer about 15 pints of Old Perculiar!

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  12. JohnAd

    JohnAd
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    Nick, should be OK with that powr supply, I thinkj the more spare power you have the better.

    Could you post a screenshot showing how bad the ATI AIW is? I'd be interested.

    John
     
  13. NickBull

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    I can try, I'll hook up my old Sony DVD via compositte and S-video and show the difference!

    What is the best way to photograph a screen? If I just turn of the flash on the digital camera and hold it steady should that work?

    thanks

    Nick
     
  14. JohnAd

    JohnAd
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    Nick

    There should be a way of taking a picture from within the ATI TV app, that was what I meant not a picture of the screen.

    John
     
  15. NickBull

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    ok, it has video capture facility, so I'll give it a go. Then it's just aq case of moving the PC from the cinema room to the neares phone socket as I don't have a 60 foot phone extension.

    I'll try and do it tonight when I get in from work.

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  16. tryingtimes

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    John
    Thanks a lot for posting that screenshot.
    It finally made up my mind - I'm just going to get the falcon card and not bother about a rgb to s convertor.

    The only thing I'm going to be critical of is ER! so I can live with that quality most of the time.

    Is there anything that can be done to help composite. Ie with cabling (I can go really short) or sheilding, etc.

    Cheers
    Alex
     
  17. JohnAd

    JohnAd
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    Alex

    Just a quick word of caution, US shows are sometimes converted poorly and can look quite soft compared to domestic studio stuff like in the screenshot. The fact they they were shot on film and transfered to 50Hz can sometimes cause the film detection of DScaler to flap about a bit. If this happens switch off auto pulldown detect and switch the alogithm to greedy.

    I think the recent E4 widescreen transmissions were much better though and may even come through as 25Hz progressive.

    John
     
  18. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    Thanks John
    I was a bit disappointed with the bit rate of ER on E4 - I thought they would have pulled out all the stops as it was their flagship product at the time.

    We'll see I guess - It was nice to see it in anamorphic widescreen though :)

    I cant remember why but I seem to recall being put off the pinnacle cards for some reason.
    Any ideas why?
     
  19. NickBull

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    John,

    Not much Luck with screenshots last night. After I paused the DVD both looked identical, the pause made both jaggy.

    when I use composite with the a-i-w TV, the picture looks like it's being projected onto a screen of live white maggots, there's a sort of squirly mess going on and not much detail.
    Switching to S-Video and it looks a lot better, but still some maggoty type stuff, although this time they have mainly died and blended into each other a lot more.

    I'll keep trying screen shots but I think the pause on my old DVD player isn't as good as some.

    I think some of it is blowing up a 600 odd by 400 odd image! It looks better if you have it in a window at about 28 inch TV size!

    One think I quite like about the AIW is the TIVO functions, I can pause a footie match and then watch as live after a trip to get beerm etc

    Cheers

    Nick
     
  20. JohnAd

    JohnAd
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    Alex

    The pinnacle cards are a bit noisier than the falcon but also a lot cheaper. Also I think the US ones may be different and the US guys really slag off the Pinnacle.

    I've got a pinnacle and all I'll say is I plan to upgrade before my projector is installed.

    Jeff's falcon looked very good with Toy Story 2 at the event on an 808, hardly any noise visible with an s-video connection.

    John
     
  21. NickBull

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    Which is best TV card between Haupage winTV go and the Pinnacl Rave TV? Both are the same price!

    Do bot have S-video as I'm thinking of going the Dscaler route but eventually with S-video input to improve things further.

    Finally, What results do you get from bog standard VHS? Do VCR's output composite only (not talking SVHS machines)? Or do they do RGB which can be converted?

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  22. NickBull

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    Which is best TV card between Haupage winTV go and the Pinnacl Rave TV? Both are the same price!

    Do bot have S-video as I'm thinking of going the Dscaler route but eventually with S-video input to improve things further.

    Finally, What results do you get from bog standard VHS? Do VCR's output composite only (not talking SVHS machines)? Or do they do RGB which can be converted?

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  23. JohnAd

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    Nick I think the WinTV go doesn't have s-video so I would go with the rave card.

    I was watching some stuff yesterday and noticed that the comb filter in my card is not fantastic so there is some odd fringing on big areas of very saturated colour especially red. Is this what you're seeing with the ATI card.

    On the other hand running Tom's new Greedy High motion thing with the median filter gave a very nice picture indeed.

    John
     
  24. NickBull

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    With composite from my ITV digital box, watching a rugby match I was getting very strange results. The magot like effect which was really noticable on the large areas of grass. It wasn't very watchable. I did notice that the ITV digibox with composite into my normal TV looks a bit rubbish too, so some of that may have been the Digibox itself.

    I'm not having much luck capturing images with the ATI, like I mentioned the Pause on the DVD player introduces jaggedy edges on both S and Composite so the S-Vid doesn't look much better than composit.

    It's hard to know what route to take for just the occasional Rugby match or footie match. I suppose if I spend an initial £40 on the RAVE card and use composite and Dscaler I can then decide wether to spend the extra £60 on the converter.

    then again I could egt the Converter and see how it goes with the ATI and then decide if I need a new TV card! Descisions Descisions!

    I suppose if Composite and Dscaler is better than S-video and ATI then the former is the way to go.

    Nick
     
  25. JohnAd

    JohnAd
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    Nick

    Think we might have to start again on this one.

    I think we need to work out if the problem is in the source or the card.

    Does the picture degrade massively when you use your DVD on s-video then composite? Do you get the same maggots on the composite even with DVD?

    On the souce side you may just be noticing the horrible compression artefacts that you get on sport, especially once you get off BBC1 and ITV (they have the highest bandwidth).

    I think the best way forward might be to attack both ends and use s-video into DScaler. This way you'll get the best progressive picture you can out of the digibox without buying a scaler. Even with this you will still see the grass as being a bag of maggots and a general loss of resolution during motion i.e. all the time.

    If you can use terrrestrial for sport then you should, preferably via and SVHS VCR connected via svideo. That's what I'll be doing for the 5 nations and the world cup. If you must use a digibox then don't look at the grass :(

    John
     
  26. NickBull

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    John,

    Thanks, I've been a bit bored at work and been having a think and it seems like the full investment of £100 could be worthwhile. I have noticed that the pictures I'm getting from ITV digital don't seem to be as good as Sky satelite. I don't know if terestrial digital has a more restricted band width?

    Looks like my christmas treat is a RGB converter and a RAVE tv card, plus a long cable from the loung to my cinema room!!!


    I like using Digital TV mainly for the widescreen, my pj screen is 16:9 and it looks odd having a 4:3 image in the middle, a lot odder than having a 4:3 image on a 32 inch w/s tv.

    Most of the matches I'll be wanting to watch I should be there live anyway, although if I could get a decent Hard drive recording of them to scrutinise when I get in, it would be ideal!



    Thanks for your help

    Nick
     

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