S-tronic / DSG questions

scrapbook

Distinguished Member
Hi there.

I will shortly be picking up an Audi but have some basic questions about the gearbox you will no doubt be able to help with.

What is the difference between P and N? When would you use N rather than P?

When using tiptronic do you need to take your foot off the gas?

How do you do a hill start with these? With a manual obviously normally you find the biting point.
 

rousetafarian

Moderator
Hi there.

I will shortly be picking up an Audi but have some basic questions about the gearbox you will no doubt be able to help with.

What is the difference between P and N? When would you use N rather than P?

When using tiptronic do you need to take your foot off the gas?

How do you do a hill start with these? With a manual obviously normally you find the biting point.


P is for parking usually before the electronic handbrake is applied manually or automatically. I never use N but believe it's usually useful when being towed etc if it's a Quattro

Second question nope, never and it would spoil the fun (S5)

3rd question an automatic handbrake and hill/climb assist helps with this aspect so no rolling back. Foot off the brake onto the gas and you are away!
 

its_all_Greek

Distinguished Member
Doesn't P leave the gearbox engaged still so the car can't move where as N is a true neutral? i.e. totally disengaged.

Nope you don't need to take your foot off the accelerator just click it through the gears as you see fit, back in the day when i was riding my trusty old Honda C70 they called this a semi-auto box. Gears but no clutch pedal/leaver then and obviously no full auto mode.

As rouse said brake to accelerator.

This sounds like your first dip into the Auto market, i think we should run a book on how many miles you do before performing an emergency stop when going to press the clutch pedal :D
My wife did it on the test drive of ours, i was in the back at the time thankfully i had a seatbelt on otherwise i wouldn't have been:eek:, at least we knew the brakes were pretty good.:rolleyes:
 

DevCode

Well-known Member
This sounds like your first dip into the Auto market, i think we should run a book on how many miles you do before performing an emergency stop when going to press the clutch pedal :D
My wife did it on the test drive of ours, i was in the back at the time thankfully i had a seatbelt on otherwise i wouldn't have been:eek:, at least we knew the brakes were pretty good.:rolleyes:

Yep, done this many times, the moment your left foot goes down, no pedal there so you press harder with both feet, at least you've now tested the brakes!
 

gibbsy

Moderator
With any DSG or S-tronic box you have to have the box in P or N and your foot on the foot brake to start the car. You have to put the box into P to remove the key. P locks the transmission and basically does the job of putting a manual in first or reverse gear when parked on a hill. N, neutral is exactly the same as a manual box and disengages the drive. Hill starts are a doddle in any automatic.
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
P is for parking usually before the electronic handbrake is applied manually or automatically. I never use N but believe it's usually useful when being towed etc if it's a Quattro

Second question nope, never and it would spoil the fun (S5)

3rd question an automatic handbrake and hill/climb assist helps with this aspect so no rolling back. Foot off the brake onto the gas and you are away!

You should never tow a quattro, you'll trash the diffs.
 

un1eash

Distinguished Member
You shouldn't really tow an auto either with the drive wheels on the ground. There's usually limits in the handbook that say not to exceed a certain speed and time towed.
Neutral disengages the engine from the gearbox but not the gearbox from the wheels so when towing the wheels and gearbox turn which can generate heat in the gearbox which isn't being cooled as the engine is off.
 

outoftheknow

Moderator
You shouldn't really tow an auto either with the drive wheels on the ground. There's usually limits in the handbook that say not to exceed a certain speed and time towed.
Neutral disengages the engine from the gearbox but not the gearbox from the wheels so when towing the wheels and gearbox turn which can generate heat in the gearbox which isn't being cooled as the engine is off.
For a DSG or S Tronic? These have two clutches, but no clutch pedal, and N disengages both of them and is the same as neutral in a manual gearbox. The gearbox is disconnected from the wheels. They can be towed the same a manual as far as I am aware in N? A full auto box (auto change and no clutch) has a fluid drive and no clutch (at the engine end) hence you cannot disconnect the gearbox and so you cannot tow an auto.

Edited for clarity hopefully and, to note, I may be wrong here. My understanding of DSG is the only differences to manuals are the gears are changed automatically and they have no clutch pedal but do have clutches.
 
Last edited:

scrapbook

Distinguished Member
During the test drive I fell for the left foot braking in an emergency stop when someone inadvertently crossed the road.

Came as a bit of a shock that my brain would be so stupid!
 

scrapbook

Distinguished Member
Do these gearboxes have some intelligentsia when it comes to feeling when you are hard accelerating? Or will it always change at the same revs unless you change mode?
 

outoftheknow

Moderator
Do these gearboxes have some intelligentsia when it comes to feeling when you are hard accelerating? Or will it always change at the same revs unless you change mode?
It may not seem so after my last post but I have a 7 speed DSG and yes it does change depending on what you are doing. There is an art to working out how hard to press the accelerator to get the results you like. You don't feel the changes anyway in any kind of acceleration as long as we all ignore the much discussed ocassions at roundabouts and junctions when it is in the wrong gear. You don't feel changes down either - as long as they are in sequence.

It also changes as you go up or down hill. Up hill it will change down to maintain a speed and as you brake going down hill it will change down too to add some engine braking. This occurs in cruise control or not.

The old fashioned kick down is where these are different. You don't hit the floor to change down. As above it reacts to how much you press the accelerator so don't try to put the pedal through the floor. To change down it really need to go down one or three gears so if in 7th it will be ready to go into 6th on the other clutch most likely. You squeeze a bit more and it will need to change to 5th or 4th. It will change the idle gear train from 6th to 4th which takes a bit of time. If you only squeeze a little it will hand over to 6th in the blink of an eye.

Some hate the 'delay' but I have found you need to learn how it behaves and you can get it singing along. The hand off changes are literally imperceptible and the other changes on the same clutch are quicker than most drivers can manage in a manual.

They don't learn in the same way as I understand the BMW version does but they do adapt to certain common things as above.

Just forget the old kick down on a three speed auto! :)
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
I've driven a couple of "older" DSG equipped cars and was underwhelmed with them. Gear changes were a bit spotty, pulling away at a roll on roundabout elicited a response you didn't expect, trying to gauge how much throttle to get a change down seemed awkward. I generally wasn't impressed and would prefer a manual or a proper auto.

In the last 2 weeks I've driven a Porsche Macan, a new 911 and a Golf GTi all with DSG and once you'd driven a few miles in it I was very impressed. It seemed to do what I wanted it to do exactly when I wanted to do it unlike the earlier generations.
 

scrapbook

Distinguished Member
So I have my new car and slowly getting used to it. Quick question. When at traffic lights do you leave gear box in D and just apply handbrake? Or do you put in neutral?
 

rousetafarian

Moderator
So I have my new car and slowly getting used to it. Quick question. When at traffic lights do you leave gear box in D and just apply handbrake? Or do you put in neutral?
I leave it in D, and keep my foot on the brake pedal
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I leave it in D, and keep my foot on the brake pedal
Don't forget that if you have stop/start engaged the engine will cut out. With auto boxes the engine will start as soon as you release the brake pedal. If I'm at traffic lights that I know will hold you for a fairly long time I put the box into P, this allows me to take my foot off the brake pedal and not blind the poor bugger behind. Once the lights change back into D with your foot on the brake, then release and the car will start.

Once you get used to using the DSG type box you'll not want to drive anything else, especially in heavy traffic. I've just ordered my third car with a DSG, a Golf GTD.
 

rousetafarian

Moderator
Don't forget that if you have stop/start engaged the engine will cut out. With auto boxes the engine will start as soon as you release the brake pedal. If I'm at traffic lights that I know will hold you for a fairly long time I put the box into P, this allows me to take my foot off the brake pedal and not blind the poor bugger behind. Once the lights change back into D with your foot on the brake, then release and the car will start.

Once you get used to using the DSG type box you'll not want to drive anything else, especially in heavy traffic. I've just ordered my third car with a DSG, a Golf GTD.
Agreed or leave it in D and apply the electronic handbrake. Feet off all pedals, relax and then on the gas to drive off
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Agreed or leave it in D and apply the electronic handbrake. Feet off all pedals, relax and then on the gas to drive off
Why does anyone want a clutch!? Push the pedal in, engage gear, move a few feet, dip the clutch, move a few more feet, go through it all again until your left legs feels it's about to drop off. So last century.:D
 

Jowsey

Active Member
Just a quick point on the left leg situation. People suggested I tuck it behind my right but it was so uncomfortable to me i just made a point of planting it flat on the deck, away from pedals and my knee in a high position so i could 'reactively' go for a peddle.

Enjoy it! I regret having to give the auto back! (courtesy car replacement)
 

AMc

Distinguished Member
Why does anyone want a clutch!? Push the pedal in, engage gear, move a few feet, dip the clutch, move a few more feet, go through it all again until your left legs feels it's about to drop off. So last century.:D
The only DSG I've driven so far was fine until I put my foot down hard, the dash lit up like Christmas and it went into limp. It was "only" a £30 speed sensor and the seller fixed it the next day but as the car had just run out of VW warranty and I reckon you could add a chunk of labour to the part cost plus limping to a garage and not having the car, I decided to go with an old fashioned manual version.
I'm sure they're no more trouble than most things in a modern car, but it put me off that one ;)
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The only DSG I've driven so far was fine until I put my foot down hard, the dash lit up like Christmas and it went into limp. It was "only" a £30 speed sensor and the seller fixed it the next day but as the car had just run out of VW warranty and I reckon you could add a chunk of labour to the part cost plus limping to a garage and not having the car, I decided to go with an old fashioned manual version.
I'm sure they're no more trouble than most things in a modern car, but it put me off that one ;)
All joking apart but I have to use an automatic box because of disability issues but in all honesty the Scirocco and Q3 I've had the DSG in have been completely fault three. Use the paddles when you need to change down several gears for a quick overtake and you're down three gears quicker than you can say 'change down'. Same goes for the glorious dual clutch auto found in BMWs that I recently test drove.
 

AMc

Distinguished Member
I was buying a GTi having had a string of small engined family wagons. The first part of the test drive had convinced me that I was going to end up using it as a full auto 99% of the time so I went with a manual for fun. I don't live where stop/start traffic is a major problem so I don't mind a bit of left leg exercise. If I still lived in a city it would be a different story!
I have nothing against autos - my second and third cars were Peugeot 205 autos - went like stink and cost pennies to insure when I was young and expensive ;)
 

un1eash

Distinguished Member

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