Running out of time Heeeeeeeeeeelp

Discussion in 'Photography Forums' started by Chip Nicley, Apr 28, 2007.

  1. Chip Nicley

    Chip Nicley
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    Hi guys

    Need a bit of expert direction from all you pro's out there,
    Im going on holiday on tuesday morning but i want to get a new lense (Walk around) To replace my 400d kit lens, So from what i have read on here and what is in stock in Bristol as i cant wait for any post ive decided between the Sigma 17-70(£215.00) or 18-125(£185.00) cant afford anything else really. Most of the shops tried to push the Tamron 18-200 or something like that, But most of the talk about walk around lenses seem to hang around the Sigma's(VFM & PQ).

    So if you had this sad problem i have put on myself can i ask what one would go for and why?

    P.s I know this question appears in many forms over the months but i can afford one or the other, So now i have a few quid to buy a new lens im now worried aboout buying a lemon.

    Thx in advance.

    Jeff
     
  2. senu

    senu
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    I know the holiday is imminent but as you are time and choice limited,

    The Sigma 17-70 is the kit lens replacement lens of choice.at that price point
    The 18-125 will give you a bit more useful Zoom at the expense of PQ ( not drastic) but it isnt a big enough leap from the Kit lens (IMHO)

    Certainly, neither is a Lemon , but if your aspirations are beyond the Kit lens quality,It would seem the 17-70 offers that little bit more.

    I'm not sure what you dislike about the kit lens specifically but if you want a walkabout with some Zoom

    You can keep the Kit, and get the 70-300 Sigma DG APO for zoom and then replace the Kit lens later
    Or
    Get the 17-70 , and get yourself a better lens with Zoom later ( 70-200) .

    Im not sure about any more opinions but if you get any endorsements ( from the Pros of which Im not one :blush: ) for the 18- 125, fine but Im less sure of it than the 17-70 in terms of marked difference in performance compared to the Kit
    HTH
     
  3. Yandros

    Yandros
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    Another vote for the Sigma 17-70. I've no experience of it, but I tend to find on holiday that I rarely use much zoom, but would appreciate more light.
     
  4. jonnypb

    jonnypb
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    as a fellow 400d owner i replaced the kit lens with the sigma and can recommend it. very good value for the money, sharp pics & nice colours
     
  5. Chip Nicley

    Chip Nicley
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    Thanks guys i knew you would come through.

    What lens did you got for Bubble???

    I would like the 18-125 for the zoom, However loss of some quality is a worrying,

    Senu if was to shoot in Raw can the problems with the 18-125 be fixed in CS2?

    Cheers

    Jeff
     
  6. Yandros

    Yandros
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    Doesn't the 17-70 also give you some macro capability? (unlike the 18-125). Looks like the 17-70 focusses down to 20cm vs 50cm on the 18-125.
     
  7. Brammers

    Brammers
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    A very happy Sigma 18-125 owner here.

    The sigma is lighter, not much slower (only half a stop at each end) and does give good image quality in terms of sharpness and flair control.

    Where the image quality falls down is in terms of vignetting and distortion at the wide end. Can't say I've noticed it at the long end. Macro is acceptable and has good working distance. 17-70's macro is literally ramming the subject against the glass! Very hard to use.

    Examples:

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    [​IMG]

    I guess it's a compromise. 17-70 gives you 'slightly' more speed and 'slightly' more image quality with 'slightly' more image magnification in macro and 'slightly' better build quality. 18-125 gives you a hell of a lot more range, and it's cheaper.

    The way I see it - if I had a 17-70 I'd be looking to upgrade that eventually to a set of matched 2.8 zooms from 17-200. My 18-125 sits on its own, if it's going to be a nice day and I want a big, convenient zoom with decent image quality I can take that and that only. If the shooting is important or demanding then I'll take a bag of primes - I consider f2.8 slow!

    Horses for courses, maybe f4 at 70mm is all you'll ever need :)
     
  8. senu

    senu
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    Brammers,
    Nice images
    Now the Problem

    Man has a 400D: doesnt think much of its kit lens
    Is going on Holiday
    cant wait to look around: His money gets him a much better than kit and your (capable 18-125) lens
    Which is the better immediate purchase for a walkabout?

    In the early days with my 350D I took it and its kit lens (18-55) to Disneyland 2ice(Paris/Orlando) with the kids and have many nice images to show for it..but I didnt miss the Zoom ( maybe because i didnt have it)
    or
    Maybe most pics were in the "normal" wide angle Zoom range

    Chip Nicley:I think bubble502 refers to the 17-70
    RAW will sort out some degree of dodgy exposure, incorrrect WB , allow you change camera styles in software, and any detail that in-camera jpeg processing has altered , but not a lack of intrinsic lens sharpness. If its there, DPP/CS2 will get at it (with your help)

    Brammers images suggest the 18-125 can be used to get good sharp images but
    That could just as easily be down to his "skill", careful selection of scenes, and good PP.
    You may have these too but , the main issue is the ability to get more keepers

    If I had to use the kit lens with the 400D as a last resort I would. Think beyond the holiday if you can..

    HTH :) :)
     
  9. Brammers

    Brammers
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    Definately thinking beyond the holiday Senu.

    Chances are, if the OP gets into photography, he'll be lusting after a 17-55 2.8 before long, maybe a 24-105 L. Then he'll have upgraded his standard zoom twice. His 17-70 would then sit in the cupboard, probably be sold. It simply wouldn't stand up to any of the 17-50 2.8s around, and 20mm extra at the long end doesn't give much incentive to get it out.

    An 18-125 would still have a place as it's soooooooo versatile - 28-200mm zoom is something that I still reach for from time to time, despite normally shooting with very fast, high quality lenses.

    If he doesn't, he's still got a high quality zoom that's maybe a tad less sharp and is half a stop slower at each end, but has a lot more zoom range. Pretty fair trade-off.

    As to more keepers - 17-70 is half a stop brighter at each end. No IS. It's not going to get all that many more keepers.

    One of the shots above is at 120mm, I was going to include a couple more at 120mm but I thought it'd be an excessive number of shots. Those are situations where 120mm produced a keeper. Quick FYI - my favourite lens is my 135 prime - it produces 2/3 body portrait shots from just under 10 meters distance. A very, very useful focal length imo and something definately worth considering when choosing between these 2.

    However, to Chip Nicely, having played with both I know you'll be happy with either. I just don't think the 18-125 is as bad as people say (see above) and certainly not so far below the 17-70 that the extra 55mm become meaningless.
     
  10. jonnypb

    jonnypb
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    17-70, very pleased with it


    Jeff[/QUOTE]

    sure does
     
  11. Darkstar_surfer

    Darkstar_surfer
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    Just to throw my two pence worth in to the discussion and then run. I am in the USA right now on holiday and bought a 350D with kit just before I left, I have taken over 10G worth of pictures and have a couple of good ones. The lens I would like to have brought with me is either the Sigma or Tamaron 18-200. I believe as a general all purpose lens this is a good match for the both the 350D and the 400D. If you aspire for a better lens then maybe you should look at a Canon EOS 5D as well and keep your 400D with 18-200 as a back-up. I don't believe there is a great cropped compatible lens at present, good maybe.

    I brought two other lenses with me, Canon 50mm F1.4 and my 75-300. Apart from one day I found carrying them or taking the time to swap a real pain. At 300mm with a crop factor of 1.6 I could not hold the camera and get a good picture, tripod only. The 50 was really sharp but I kept having to run backwards or compromise the shot I wanted. Ok for static work but a bummer when chasing your 3 year old around.
     
  12. Chip Nicley

    Chip Nicley
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    Brammers, you are the reason i even know about the 18-125 Sigma (Nice pic btw) thank you for your comments too.

    I am going to Disney in Florida with 2 kids and i am best man at a wedding too and i want to take some shots as a present for the (ahem) lucky couple and obviously family shots with that mouse etc.

    Senu it's not that i dislike the kit lens it's the more you read you start to think there must be something better out there (At an affordable price) for IQ and zoom (Hence 17-70 & 18-125).

    One thing that concerns me a little is how dark the area's Disney choose to show off the characters, I guess that both Sigma lenses can beat the Canon kit lens in that situation???

    I would like more zoom but not at the expence of quality but i cant afford 2 lenses right now (Bummer).

    Thanks to everyone who has posted so far i still have a couple of days left so please keep posting a point of view.

    Cheers

    Jeff
     
  13. senu

    senu
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    From my own experience of 2 Disney trips with the kit lens.
    I wouldn't worry. The kit lens or either of the Sigmas will do the Job. The wediing may be better served by something better though .The ability to use a higher ISO quickly , or use a a wider aperture in AV will sort all that out.... and there is always your Flash:)
    Regarding the wedding, If you do get a new lens ( or any other kit for that matter) try it our and get used to it way before you need to use it on the day
     

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