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running in "new" cdm1nts re treble not smooth

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by mick23, Jun 3, 2003.

  1. mick23

    mick23
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    hi all as i am sure some of you are aware ive had some problems in the past with my cdms, to recap.

    when i first had cdms they sounded poor/not musical/harsh even after about 50 hours use, used with 3802+nad540cd player,

    the problem turned out to be one tweeter was at fault and was replaced, got them back very pleased with sound quality, good imaging ,treble was detailed but not harsh ,sounded good on 3802s tuner even at low volume, slightly harsher with cd depending on cd quality. so was happy with cdms+3802 for sterio duties.

    to cut a long story short b&W have just replaced both tweeters/drivers/and crossovers and said speakers are ok now,

    so effectively appart from cabintets these should be as new?????

    i have been using cdms for about 5 days now (about 26 hours use) they still sound harsh ,treble is tinkely but am using 3802+nad or tuner same cabling /interconnects as when i first recieved them but the "smoothness is not there as before"

    so for those that purchased cdms new how long a run in did you find treble mellowed, as i feel im starting from scratch re speakers
     
  2. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Give them a good few days worth of running-in,including a few decent high volume sessions.

    I have a set of 805s,with very similar drive unit technology,and my dealer rightly said that the running in period suggested by B&W is a bit on the short side,and that you may notice improvements for some weeks after initially setting them up.....be patient,it's well worth the wait.

    You may also find that biwiring helps an enormous amount...it certainly does with the 805s.
     
  3. avanzato

    avanzato
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    The May/June issue of HiFi+ magazine has an article in it testing the running in of speakers. Coincidently using B&W CDM1nt speakers.

    I'll spoil the surprise by saying the writer found no difference between the run-in and virgin speakers.

    YMMV but that fits in with my experience of speakers.

    I had some KEF 60s speakers once, they (to me anyway) have a nasty plasticy colouration. If I listened just to them they started to sound good and I didn't notice the problem. If I compared them or came back to them after several days of not using the HiFi they sounded plasticy again.

    Perhaps being without the speakers for a few days you're ears have re-tuned and you are now hearing the CDM's as you first did.

    Just a thought.
     
  4. mick23

    mick23
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    thanks all
    avanzato i forgot to mention in above post when i originally sent speakers back to b&W re tweeter they phoned me to say they sounded ok, i pointed out that there was more sound coming from one tweeter than the other, some time later they phoned me back saying there was a fault with tweeter driver moter and replaced the tweeter, they also stated this had a big effect on the sound quality.

    when i recieved them the speakers sounded very good, much better than before, now b&W must listen to lots of speakers every day ,but did not notice the "fault with mine untill i pointed this out"

    i did not imagine a differance in sound quality before and after because i had not heard them for a while, my mate noticed the improvement as well.

    they are quite a lot of owners reviews on www.audioreview.com who have cdms and in quite a lot of cases a long run in was said to be benificial and improved sound quallity and (tamed treble harshness etc)

    i did originally ask a few dealers why my speakers sounded rather differant to demo pairs, and was always told our demo pair have some 200+ hours on them ,yours have not this of course could be bul***T.

    i cannot comment on the hifi+ review but i can only hope that a run in does improve the sound of my cdms or at least smooth out the rather harsh treble a bit more than at the moment.

    i am just leaving cdms+tuner running for a few hours a day rather than trying to hear any possible improvements every now and then. thank you
     
  5. alexs2

    alexs2
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    avanzato....Intersting comment from that reviewer.....B&W's own literature on those models,and the Nautilus range clearly states that sound quality will change over a period of time after purchase as the drive units bed-in etc.....all of the B&W dealers I've had dealings with would agree with that,one going so far as to suggest that B&W's times were a little short.

    IMHO,having a set of 805's,I can only agree with these comments and say that firstly,treble quality becomes noticeably smoother over a couple of weeks with moderate usage,and biwiring with good quality cables makes an immediately audible improvement....and that's using amplifiers with well documented current delivery and load tolerance.
     
  6. avanzato

    avanzato
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    He did say that B&W recomended running in the speakers and also the theory that running in gets the speaker closer to the well used developement model. He also gave good counter arguments to those ideas and the measurements back him up.

    The conclusion I got from the article.

    (and it didn't deny that speakers sound better after a while).

    Is that it's not the speakers that are changing.. it's you.

    Personally I think it's just as a valid an effect/idea as physical changes within the speaker.

    Some people might be offended by the the fact that 'you'll get used to them' but it's not a big deal really.

    I suppose the important thing is to choose speakers you like in the first place by comparative listening. Then as your aural memory adapts you'll like them even more.
     
  7. SamirP

    SamirP
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    Hi Avanzota
    i'm not sure on overall run in times, but after 3 weeks with my CDM 1NT, the one thing I do know is they sound better week by week :D

    (1NT's were ex-display with about 40 hrs)

    I don't think that sounded bright or harsh when I first got them but they do seem to have smoothed out, I find things very easy to listern too on them. If that makes sense? Less hard work then my old mission M74's
    I use a 2800 via co-ax to a 3802 and POAT3 power amp

    P.S

    Are you using B&W NT stands?

    :)
     
  8. mick23

    mick23
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    thanks all

    samirp not sure what the poat3 is 3 channel ????, but some time ago i tried denon poat10 2 channel power amp 120watts /biwired driving/ cdm1nts tried in 2 channel sterio and thought the 3802s internal amps sounded better, on the av side there was more improvement,

    not sure but i might have tried the poat10 when i still had the (faulty tweeter issue) not to sure on this.

    where i noticed a big differance was after tweeter change was using just denons tuner /low volume phil collins "hold on my heart " came on i could hear all the background sounds clearly, but it just sounded nice and smooth, and was quite suprised at the (quality of sound from cdms)

    i then tried p/collins on cd with nad 541 , and found the quality of recordings was not that good,and things were much harsher.

    in general the 3802 is not considered to be that good in 2 channel sterio but i must admit i was gobsmacked when i initialy recieved cdms back the first time.

    i have been running in cdms at very modest volumes,due to neibours having young children ,so its proberbly not doing much good anyway.

    on the review side of things saw a review cdm9nts??? reviewer ran them in 3 hours a day for 3 weeks before even giving a review, differant opinion again.

    thanks all
     
  9. SamirP

    SamirP
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    Hi Mick
    Yes the Denon poat3 is the three channel version of the poat10 power amp.

    I found that it made a big step up when adding the poat3 power amp, Bass seemed much tighter and better defined, and much smoother all around, and on on the av side the centre channel gained alot and sounded more refined.

    But each to they own.

    mick what centre and surrounds are you using?

    Thanks :)
     
  10. mick23

    mick23
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    samir i use bw lcr60 center and bw 600s3 for surrounds ,small missions m70 doing rear duties, i did not have the funds or room for cnt center or cdm surrounds,

    re poat10 i did find the center channel improved more so than prior to p10, as i stated i am not sure at the time of trying p10 wheather the tweeter problem was still applicable which of course would have some baring on sound quality.

    i currently have rotel powers the 5 channel 985mk1 and 981 2 channel vertion ,i do notice a slight improvement with 985 for av ,and vocals seem to be better in 2 chan with 891.

    i used the 985 biamping my old mordaunt -short standmounts and this really did make a noticible improvement in 2 channel,they really "sprung to life" thank you
     
  11. bamber

    bamber
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    Mick I would agree with alex2, I use Nautilus 803's and previously CDM1 SEs. I found it took about 4 weeks before the nice tight bass emerged. The biggest leap in performance occurred when they were biwired.
     
  12. mick23

    mick23
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    gazza i have cdms biwired ??? 4 into 2 configeration (3802 only has single speaker option) i was using silver annv mono wired originally when first had cdms, then changed to dnm reason 2 speaker cable on dealers advice before realizing there was a problem with speakers,


    one of the original demos was with van der hull (clearwater or something that sounded like that mono wired) i have not tried any other cabling other than qed or dnm.
    thank you
     
  13. mick23

    mick23
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    samir i have the deicated cdm stands, meant to ask you as you are the only forum member i know that has cdms+3802, i find with cd player nad541 and say fairly good quality cd disc (mark knopflers golden heart) things sound quite good.

    i have the denons internal tuner to dedicated fm ariel,this is where i find cdms in general to give (the more unpleasent tinkely sound)

    just wondered how you find denons tuner and cdms thank you
     
  14. SamirP

    SamirP
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    Hi Mick
    I don't think that I've ever really been happy with the internal tuner on my 3802, it has always seemed to give a very hissy signal with to much background noise.
    I've found that I get much better results when i used my much older seperate tuner. It does seem to the poor link.
    I think a DAB tuner upgrade will rid you of that tinkely sound.

    i feel that when listerning to a good quality recording via CD the 3802 NT combo gives first class results, i've also found that this sound seems to grow on me more each day.

    P.S
    Just upgraded my centre to a CDM CNT :D
     

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