Run out of ideas with my Triax Modulator

johntaylor

Novice Member
All looking for some help and guidance please.

Just upgraded to Sky Q and having read a number of posts thought that a Triax Modulateur 103T would be the piece of kit to keep showing Sky on other TVS around housebut have some technical difficulties.

My old set up:

Ariel into loft down into a Sky HD box inot a io-link.
RF returns into loft into a boost/splitter powered by sky box (no RF into main tv just Sky HD)
RF runs off into 5 tv sockets but only 2 connected to TVs
Can get Sky/Freeview on all TVs. Sky picture is little grainy though

New set up
Ariel into loft down into Sky Q box connected to a Modulateur.
RV into main tv
RV returns into loft into a new Labgear LDL208R
RF runs off into 5 tv sockets but only 2 in use

My problems

Issue 1
I get Sky showing on the main tv but cannot get a UDH picture. Get a error message on sky saying " to watch this, you need a UHD TV and have picture resolution set to UHD but when i try and select UHD it comes up with a fault error message. When i dont use the Modulateur it works fine.

Issue 2
I can get Sky on the 2 other tv on CH36 and the picture is quite good BUT i am not able to tune in freeview on any TV including the main on. When i remove the Modulateur and join the coax together to return the signal i am able to tune in the tvs obviously without Sky

I have tried changing the frequency on the modulator from 36 to 24 but made no difference.
I have changes Sky to 720p but makes no difference
All TVs have a HD tuner in

Questions

1- What am i doing wrong?
2 - Triax Modulateur 103T -can i get a UHD picture through this? if not any suggestions for ones which i can

Thank you in advance

John
 

mikej

Well-known Member
I'm not familiar with these modulators, but a quick look at the specs for the Triax 103T shows it only supports resolutions up to [email protected], so presumably you can't use it to distribute or pass through a 4K UHD signal, which would explain Issue 1.

In order to get Sky on the other TVs, did you have to lower the Sky Q video output to 1080p ?

What do you mean by 'RV into main TV' ? By the looks of the diagram in this thread, you need to connect the modulator to TV via HDMI. Is everything else connected as per the diagram ?


If you wanted to use the Freeview tuner on the main TV as well as Sky, then presumably you'll need an additional connection between the Labgear amp and this TV via coax.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
The triax only supports 1080 so it's never going to support 4k either directly or passthrough.

Since HDMI can only send one signal at a time you either stuck with 1080 output or get a additional splitter and scaler. This will take a 4K signal and split with one being downscaled to 1080p which the modulator should then handle.
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
To feed both main TV and the loft amplifier with UHF signals you'd need:
a) a second cable from loft box back to the main TV set, or
b) a 2-way passive splitter from the Triax RF out: one output to loft box the other to the TV (with 4dB loss of signal to both).

If going the UHD hdmi splitter-scaler route consider sending hdmi signals to the other TVs via suitable long cables/hdmi baluns etc.,. rather than RF? {Will require new cables run and/or extra kit.}

You are likely to run into audio issues if you ever want full surround in the main room, as the Triax is limited to stereo in as well as 1080p max.
 

johntaylor

Novice Member
To feed both main TV and the loft amplifier with UHF signals you'd need:
a) a second cable from loft box back to the main TV set, or
b) a 2-way passive splitter from the Triax RF out: one output to loft box the other to the TV (with 4dB loss of signal to both).

If going the UHD hdmi splitter-scaler route consider sending hdmi signals to the other TVs via suitable long cables/hdmi baluns etc.,. rather than RF? {Will require new cables run and/or extra kit.}

You are likely to run into audio issues if you ever want full surround in the main room, as the Triax is limited to stereo in as well as 1080p max
Thank you for the response.

I should have explained more in detail.

I have a second cable from loft box back to main tv via a 2-way splitter covered Y splitter (not sure if this is a passive splitter)

I wont be able to run additional UHD hdmi cables without major work so not keen on this.

I would be more than happy with UHD on main tv and standard picture on additional tvs. Can you suggest a modulator which will send a UHD to the main tv?

Also any ideas why i cannot get Freeview on the other tvs? is it because the 2 way splitter may not be a passive splitter?
 

johntaylor

Novice Member
The triax only supports 1080 so it's never going to support 4k either directly or passthrough.

Since HDMI can only send one signal at a time you either stuck with 1080 output or get a additional splitter and scaler. This will take a 4K signal and split with one being downscaled to 1080p which the modulator should then handle.
thank you, my fault for not checking what the modulator will support, any suggestions on a modulator which will support 4K? Thanks
 

johntaylor

Novice Member
I'm not familiar with these modulators, but a quick look at the specs for the Triax 103T shows it only supports resolutions up to [email protected], so presumably you can't use it to distribute or pass through a 4K UHD signal, which would explain Issue 1.

In order to get Sky on the other TVs, did you have to lower the Sky Q video output to 1080p ?

What do you mean by 'RV into main TV' ? By the looks of the diagram in this thread, you need to connect the modulator to TV via HDMI. Is everything else connected as per the diagram ?


If you wanted to use the Freeview tuner on the main TV as well as Sky, then presumably you'll need an additional connection between the Labgear amp and this TV via coax.
Thank you , looks like i have not checked the spec of the modulator.
No i did not have to lover the Sky Q video output to get it on the other tvs,
Apologies i meant RF and yes i have followed the diagram.
 

Jamie

Distinguished Member
thank you, my fault for not checking what the modulator will support, any suggestions on a modulator which will support 4K? Thanks
I'm not aware of any that modulators that support 4k, Antiference who are another supplier of modulators supply a separate scaler box that will pass through 4k to the local TV and scale down to 1080P for input to the modulator (or a different TV)


HD Fury are another brand that make suitable dual output scalers you could use, none of them are cheap though.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
Agree with @Jamie don’t think they are any 4k on the market as you can’t afaik get 4k over UHF yet.

Try that splitter mentioned or something like this one Amazon product
That should work nicely. I have hdfury too but it’s probably overkill in this case.

Just watch the sound output
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
Main TV will (must) use hdmi connection from $ky Q box... Via a hdmi-splitter / 1080 p scaler to the Triax UHF modulator input to be tuned in on the other TVs in the house.
Only the main TV sees the UHD programme in UHD the others get a HD down-scaled version.
(How well the scalers handle HDR downscaling is anyone's guess).

Plenty of scaler-splitters out there if you Google (amazon/ebay/cpc/etc.,.) Labgear's one mentioned above will no doubt just be a rebadged Chinese unit sold on Amazon.
Beware some state they are 60Hz only, don't convert HDR to SDR, don't do Dolby Vision etc.,. etc.,. (e.g. the £30 one from Amazon); but it may just be bad translation used?
I strongly suspect the DVB-T modulator will need 25/50Hz signals - but can't find that in the spec (nor that 30/60 are supported...? )

NB you'll have to output stereo only from the $ky box for the modulator (all brands have the same limitation) to work with 1080i/p.
It should have worked with the Q box set to 720p, though, but you said it didn't?

Q minis and multiroom are the official $ky solution for this, of course.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
Yep it wouldn’t surprise me if the splitters are all common manufacturers rebadged. They should also do below 60Hz to, it’s just there are lots of people asking for 120Hz and these only support hdmi 2.0 functions.

Refresh changes and as you say hdr to sdr are the difficult ones to do. Hd fury diva which splits and does hdr to sdr conversion was around 400 or so.
 

johntaylor

Novice Member
Agree with @Jamie don’t think they are any 4k on the market as you can’t afaik get 4k over UHF yet.

Try that splitter mentioned or something like this one Amazon product
That should work nicely. I have hdfury too but it’s probably overkill in this case.

Just watch the sound output
Thank

SO would the Sky Q connect to this splitter, then one cable would run off into the main tv and the other into the modulator?

Do we think the issue i had with Freeviewy not showing on the other tv was because i was using the below splitter and not a passive splitter?


thanks
 

johntaylor

Novice Member
Main TV will (must) use hdmi connection from $ky Q box... Via a hdmi-splitter / 1080 p scaler to the Triax UHF modulator input to be tuned in on the other TVs in the house.
Only the main TV sees the UHD programme in UHD the others get a HD down-scaled version.
(How well the scalers handle HDR downscaling is anyone's guess).

Plenty of scaler-splitters out there if you Google (amazon/ebay/cpc/etc.,.) Labgear's one mentioned above will no doubt just be a rebadged Chinese unit sold on Amazon.
Beware some state they are 60Hz only, don't convert HDR to SDR, don't do Dolby Vision etc.,. etc.,. (e.g. the £30 one from Amazon); but it may just be bad translation used?
I strongly suspect the DVB-T modulator will need 25/50Hz signals - but can't find that in the spec (nor that 30/60 are supported...? )

NB you'll have to output stereo only from the $ky box for the modulator (all brands have the same limitation) to work with 1080i/p.
It should have worked with the Q box set to 720p, though, but you said it didn't?

Q minis and multiroom are the official $ky solution for this, of course.
Thanks Rodders

So to get UDH on the main tv i would need to Sky Q connect to a HDMI splitter (like the amazon one above), then one cable would run off into the main tv and the other into the modulator?

I also need to update my coax splitter into a passive splitter from

2-Way Splitter Covered Y Splitter

Would this then mean i could get a freeview signal on the other tvs?
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
Splitter like that is passive.
Likely inductive splitterunless very, very old: 4dB loss from in to each out.

INput is the bottom of the Y (male plug).
OUTputs the two arms (female sockets).

Common error is to use one socket as the in and the male feed works as an out but nothing passes to the other socket... I suspect that may be your issue?

If wired up correctly, it's possible that the 4dB loss brings levels below the digital cliff for some of the sets? You'd be very unlucky in that case but feed them direct (no splitter) to check that.

Another possible may be that the amplifier is overloading those receivers with too much signal.
TVs usually have diagnostic signal level/quality metering: use that feature?
 

johntaylor

Novice Member
Splitter like that is passive.
Likely inductive splitterunless very, very old: 4dB loss from in to each out.

INput is the bottom of the Y (male plug).
OUTputs the two arms (female sockets).

Common error is to use one socket as the in and the male feed works as an out but nothing passes to the other socket... I suspect that may be your issue?

If wired up correctly, it's possible that the 4dB loss brings levels below the digital cliff for some of the sets? You'd be very unlucky in that case but feed them direct (no splitter) to check that.

Another possible may be that the amplifier is overloading those receivers with too much signal.
TVs usually have diagnostic signal level/quality metering: use that feature?
Thanks Rodders,

Am away for a few days now but will re-check and try again on my return.

Thanks

John
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
Not sure why you need a splitter, and that one is passive anyway just not a particularly brilliant one.

Wiring should be aerial from roof (or aerial output of loft box) into the RF in on the modulator. RF1 out then should go direct into lounge tv. RF2 then should go back to loft box. That then provides the freeview and new sky uhf signal to rest of TVs in house. Tuning the TVs in then should get all the channels, please note if the modulator channel happens to have existing freeview channel mux on you will need to change it.

Hdmi output from sky should go to splitter, then 4k output to lounge tv, then 1080 output into modulator.

That should be the correct way to set it up.

You might need coax to f type adapters or alternativelycables with f type to tv aerial (belling Lee) connectors. Something like this Amazon product
Then chuck the splitter
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
Agreed^^^^^

Also, the Triax modulator has the 9V supply needed to power the original magic eye splitter-amplifier you had (The left-most RF out, with switch). = RF2 in $ky-speak, though not labelled as such.
The other RF out is = RF1

No need for the new Labgear distribution amplifier!

RF out transmit channel choice will depend on location and transmitter(s) received by the aerial.
But the Triax input has a LTE filter so any channel 61-68 would be clear (if the TVs can tune to those - I've a Panny TV that stops at 60).

RF out power is adjustable between 65 and 95 dBuV in 1 dB steps. That should likely be set as low as possible by making the attenuation the maximum of 30dB? The manual suggests that's the default, though?

Receivers for digital work best around 45 to 65 dBuV.... and you might be swamping the front ends after another 10dB of amplification (new Labgear) and even 7dB (e.g. Global F140 loft box RF2 powered).
Perhaps? One would need a pro meter to check it out properly!

Most TVs have meters built in that can be useful for signal strength and quality analysis. Quality is more important than signal level usually. Overload can exhibit as high signal level with poor or fluctuating quality numbers.

Adapters from F- to IEC/Belling Lee TV are available if needed e.g. PROception Adaptors F-Male to TV (IEC) Female
Better than moulded unknown quality fly leads from Amazon, DIY sheds etc.,. Cable connectors and leads - A.T.V. Poles, Brackets, Clamps & Aerials
 

johntaylor

Novice Member
Not sure why you need a splitter, and that one is passive anyway just not a particularly brilliant one.

Wiring should be aerial from roof (or aerial output of loft box) into the RF in on the modulator. RF1 out then should go direct into lounge tv. RF2 then should go back to loft box. That then provides the freeview and new sky uhf signal to rest of TVs in house. Tuning the TVs in then should get all the channels, please note if the modulator channel happens to have existing freeview channel mux on you will need to change it.

Hdmi output from sky should go to splitter, then 4k output to lounge tv, then 1080 output into modulator.

That should be the correct way to set it up.

You might need coax to f type adapters or alternativelycables with f type to tv aerial (belling Lee) connectors. Something like this Amazon product
Then chuck the splitter
Thank you ChuckMountain will feed back once i have tried it.
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
@Rodders53 the post I think you linked to earlier has a wiring diagram for the particular modulator. It has the outputs labelled as RF1 and 2 so was referring to that as such.

Agree on the generic cables but equally don’t know on the quality of the existing cables. I would make some up with decent quality cable but appreciate most people will want to buy them. CPC do some better quality ones too.
 

johntaylor

Novice Member
Have to use existing cables which the electrician installed when house was built 3y ago.

Will check all the connectors though
 

ChuckMountain

Distinguished Member
Yes should be to use existing in wall wiring it’s just getting the cable into the right inputs etc on the lounge. The new modulator uses f type connectors rather than the more traditional tv type you find on sky rf inputs and outputs so you just need to convert.
 

David Chapman

Active Member
How many TVs do you need to supply, 2 or 3?

I don't see an answer to why you aren't using the 103T HDMI loop through to connect from the 103T to your lounge TV? Apologies if I missed this.

My 103T just arrived today (on offer at Amazon). I had the analogue Triax setup prior to this.
I will feed 103T via HDMI from Humax HDR-1100S (only outputs 1080p max so no 4k issues).
HDMI out of the 103T to local TV in the lounge. This is the only "HD Ready" TV so HDMI fine here, otherwise for use in a remote room I'd need a Freeview set-top box to accept the HD signal from the 103T.
Then coax 9v powered RF out of 103T to Labgear 10x distribution amp in the loft (coax already in the house when we bought it) and out to coax wall plates x 10 in all most rooms. Old Triax IR works through dist.amp so new one should too.
Remote rooms have LG full HD TVs so they should give a better picture than the old Triax SD/mono setup. I think the modern LGs struggle to downscale this old tech hence the need to supply them with an HD feed from the new 103T.

I'll report back with any issues. I AM expecting some even though I think I have it all sussed!
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
I AM expecting some even though I think I have it all sussed!
UHF RF to main TV is always useful as a check of the TV aerial reception and the modulator output without having to go to the other room(s).
In addition to the main hdmi feed, naturally.

Analogue composite SD pictures were / are always dreadful cf component video from a device. The LGs "can't make a silk purse... "

I'd suggest you set the Humax to output 1080i (not p) and stereo pcm to get the best out of the Triax encoder and modulator for the LGs (and only make the Humax upscale 576i to 1080i, leaving the LG to deinterlace. {Try P by all means to see if you can spot any difference, but HD as transmitted is interlaced.}.
 

David Chapman

Active Member
Yes, I checked the old Triax RF direct to TV to make sure the poor picture wasn't a cabling issue through the amp to the upstairs outlet where the same TV usually sits. No difference.
My old, dead, Tv's were much better accepting these "old" signals than the new ones. Horses for courses...
 

johntaylor

Novice Member
Thank you all, we have success as we have picture, I swapped the modulator with like for like, bought a hdmi splinter and got some new adapters. I think the issue I had previously was down to the adapters but will never know now.

Next question on the hdmi splinter I have the EDID set to 4k, other options are 2K or copy 1. On the scaler for the hdmi out 2 I have set to on as this is connected to the modulator. Is this all correct?
 

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