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RP TV advice please.

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by MikeTPC, Sep 16, 2003.

  1. MikeTPC

    MikeTPC
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    I'm sure loads of people post this but I'd be grateful to anyone who might spend the time answering my questions.

    I'm looking for a 40" to 44" TV which due to budget contstraints (under £1500) will have to be a rear projection set.

    The technology seems to have moved on a lot and the new ones aren't that far away from conventional sets in visual quality from what I have seen, but knowing little about them I have some questions. I've seen very nice Sony for £1500 but I need a TV with a stand so my numerous associated devices can go underneath. And obviously the less I spend the better.

    Is 100hz a big deal? I've seen a cracking looking Samsung set but it's only 50hz.

    Are the inbuilt sound systems any good on most of the major brands?

    Are they any good for playing console games?

    Which features should I look out for and which are marketing BS?

    Any brands to steer clear of?

    Any specific set recommendations?
     
  2. MikeTPC

    MikeTPC
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    From looking around at prices and spec two good models seem to be:

    Toshiba 42WH36P inc cab for £1182 or the Samsung SP42W4HPX/XEU inc cab for £1058.

    The Samsung despite it being claimed 100hz at certain places I know is only 50hz as I've spoken to Samsung about it.

    Anyone own or have comments on either of these two?
     
  3. nathan_silly

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    My RP set is a standard 50hz model. Since you're going up in size PAL 50hz flicker is pretty obvious. I only have Region 1 DVD's which are 60hz. I would go for a 100hz set if you watch Region 2 PAL DVD's.

    Sound is OK for TV use, but a £600 seperates system blows it away.

    Dunno, but I wouldn't be surpised if health/speed logo's burn onto the screen. I've seen snapshots of RP's with channel logo's burnt.

    Haven't dealt with cheaper RP sets.

    Checkout the new Toshiba RP's, supposed to do Progressive (still new)
     
  4. MarkR

    MarkR
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    I use my 42" Tosh for playing console games. I have an Xbox and believe you me it will blow you away when you start playing games on it. ;)

    And as Nathan as quite rightly pointed out be carefull of screenburn. I have set my contrast and brightness down to avoid this and it seems to be OK.
     
  5. MikeTPC

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    Thanks for the comments.

    So if I go for 100hz the 42WH36P looks pretty good. Is it still playable enough with the contrast and brightess down then? I presume screenburn is the same as with PC monitors?

    Anyone using this model and have any other comments on it?

    Oh and Mark I'm just waiting for the new Gamecube Mario Kart with split screen racing, one of the reasons I want a bigger TV. :)
     
  6. MarkR

    MarkR
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    Mine is a 100hz and once you set the levels down below 50 for contrast and brightness it still looks good.
    Once I get home tonight I will post my settings to you. :)
     
  7. Demon

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    Pretty much as everyone is saying,

    I think its the contrast that is the killer...

    For console games, e.g. XBox, its nice to 'see' into the dark areas, as this makes gaming easier.. on my 50" Tosh, Brightness was up around 80, but contrast low, around 35-40.. this made a nice uniformly lit picture... HALO has never been so good!!!! and less chance of screen burn...

    In fact speaking of screen burn, my Brother had a 46wh08B, which he had on 24/7 with the kids watching the cartoon network all day long.. after 12 months, this had slight screen burn of the log, but was surprisingly not that bad.. I've seen far worse on normal CRT..

    The built in sound is OK, but its much more preferable to get seperates, since the Tosh doesn't have DTS and Prologic II support (I think this is still the case).. for a cheap DD/DTS/Prologic II add-on, the Sony HTK-25 (£187 from unbeatable, its an amp/subwoofer and 5 satellite speakers) that sounds better then the built in stuff anyway... other then that, £600 is the sort of seperate amp/speaker quality starting point...

    The features to look for are
    1. Component Video Connection - useful for DVD players.
    2. Progressive Scan, and internal De-interlacer (Toshiba's 'Progress' picture mode is exactly this)
    3. As many RGB Scarts as possible
    4. non-reflective screen
    5. easy to setup

    Apart from the ease of fiddling in service mode to get uber-convergence, the Tosh 42wh36P seems to be one of the top sets at the moment..
     
  8. nathan_silly

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  9. MikeTPC

    MikeTPC
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    Thanks demon.

    More stupid questions now. :D

    What is Component Video Connection? Is that the three seperate leads? (white/red/yellow).

    Is convergence the geometry? If not what it is?

    Does this Tosh have a non reflective screen (their UK website is down so I can't find out)?
     
  10. MikeTPC

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    Tempting but would be a little too big for my room I think.
     
  11. nathan_silly

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    Component is not yellow, white and red- that's stereo audio and Composite (yukky)

    Component is individual colours - Red, Green and Blue. Similar to RGB, but different. Please no Component v SCART RGB posts! :)

    (Perfect) Geometry is when the horzintol & veritcal lines are straight, with no bending, waving etc. Basically like a grid. Put a grid up on a LCD screen and that's what it should look like.

    Convergence is getting the three tubes (Red, Green & Blue) spot on, so each is projecting at the exact place. Example- get three golf balls and place them in line with your vision (close on eye) place the two golf balls behind the front one (like a total eclipse) You should not see the two behind the front one. When a CRT display (whether it be a CRT RP, CRT FP, CRT TV or CRT PC monitor) is slightly out of convergence- you will see one or both of the golf balls peeking from behind the front one.

    Convergence effects the whole screen- not just the centre. It is also different depending on what aspect mode (4:3, Wide, Superlive) and input format (NTSC and PAL)
     
  12. MikeTPC

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    Cool, thanks for the answers.

    Do many sets not come converged (?) correctly?
     
  13. MikeTPC

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    Here's the connections for it:

    [​IMG]

    I think I'll go for this one unless there's anything else I should know.


    Next up, where to buy? :D
     
  14. nathan_silly

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    CRT RP's set do come converged, but they're not perfect. They might be a couple of mm out. You can use the user level convergence- which will bring it back it. But the user level only has 9 point per gun.

    The service level has around 59 points per gun. So you can get each little area much better, or perfect. You can also check overall geometry shape and adjust the grid (say if the middle is slanting is drifted to the right slightly)
     
  15. nathan_silly

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    That diagram is incorrect. The back looks like this..
     

    Attached Files:

  16. MikeTPC

    MikeTPC
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    Ok, thanks for all your input guys I've made my mind up.

    Only thing that remains is where to buy it, the price at Unbeatable looks good but how are they? Good for customer service and reliability etc?
     
  17. JohnC

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    Sorry to butt in here.
    But after reading the current RPTV threads I'm very keen to buy the Toshiba 51WH36P, the price from unbeatable is just amazing!!:smashin:

    Could some one give me some feedback on the following

    1. What's this 'unbeatable' company like to deal with?

    2. The price of £1,344.96 is without a stand, Would I be right to think this TV is OK without a stand and maybe too high with it?

    3. I still like the 4:3 screen to the 16:9..... is there any discernible difference in picture quality between the two?

    4: I noticed the very popular Denon 3802 receiver/amp fluctuated like mad in price, it was actually cheaper when it first came out than a few months later, could this happen with the 51WH36P ?

    5. Where the heck can I see this Tosh range working in a sensible environment around Coventry or Birmingham? Comet and Curry's are a complete joke to view any TV, but especialy large screen ones.

    Thanks JC
     
  18. nathan_silly

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    Unbeatable seem OK. When I contacted them they were quick. A couple of other people haven't had as good a service though.

    I don't think you'll need a stand. The 51" RP is 1.2M high. So if you place it on the stand it'll be higher than most sofa's.

    Just use the Superlive ratio to watch 4:3 broadcasts. It's alot better than the old Sony Smart ratio (squashed people) . People look "normal" :) I wouldn't buy a 4:3 RP. The problem with 4:3 sets is when you start to watch films with a high ratio- 2:35 or higher. With a 4:3 set the borders will be HUGE (with a widescreen set the borders will be smaller). Why pay to project black? People like Bassbin prefer 4:3, but 4:3 is dead baby! :)

    Not for about a year, when the new models come out.

    You need to view this set in a "proper" enviroment- that means not in a bright room with fluroescent lights shining on the screen.

    I've seen CRT RP's before - a Pioneer in a pitch black room, and a Sony 41" in a darkened shop, and a couple of Panasonics as well. Oh yeah the shop used to get the occasional Toshiba as well. So I bought my RP blind. I knew CRT RP's where good anyway.
     
  19. JohnC

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    Nathan
    Thats excellent information, I appreciate all your contributions on "AV forums"..... its good to have you around.
    Many thanks John C
     
  20. nero041001

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    I too am looking to buy a rp tv and am undecided as i am concerned about screen burn as i play games between 4-8(min-max)hrs a day but i do like the look of the two toshibas at unbeatable would 50hz flicker be THAT noticable woth ntsc games/films as i play/watch a majority of ntsc stuff along with pal/region 2 dvds games. Are unbeatable a reliable company? and is their aftersales any good or would it be more reccomended to spend that little bit more at currys etc....?

    Im in the same ruck as you miketpc
    any more advice/opinions will be fully apreciated and my decision will be posted on here to say which tv i will go for and the outcome to help others
     
  21. nathan_silly

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    What I've been hearing about the high street retailers has pretty much put me off buying stuff.

    I would say the shops that rhymes with "vomit" has the worse customer service, with "worries" and "vixens" better CS, although the engineers are clueless monkeys. And the extended warrenties are a joke.

    Since I've mentioned no names I'm not spreading slander! Ha ha! :)

    When you play NTSC material on a standard set (ie a 25" 50hz TV) it actually is outputting the native rate of NTSC- which is 60hz. This extra 10hz higher refresh helps. PAL 50hz has flicker, wheras NTSC 60hz does not -or is percieved by more people to be stable. But you need to check PAL material on a large screen on a 50hz set, and checkout 100hz sets for any 100hz "nasties", if present.
     
  22. Demon

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    My brother ordered his 51wh36 2 weeks ago, and it's being delivered in the next couple of days... I ordered mine last week, and will be in early next week.

    It really shouldn't matter where you buy it from, since they all come direct from Toshiba, so 'unbeatable' etc are just a broker, or booking agent... they pass the order onto Toshiba, and when they say its about to arrive, they take your money, and Toshiba will phone to arrange the delivery date/time etc..

    I went into a highstreet store, and asked what lead time there was on the sets (they didn't even have any in stock).. the price for the 51wh36P was £1999 and would take 3-4 weeks delivery... and funny old thing, would be shipped direct from the manufacturer!!!

    If you every have a problem with the set, just give Toshiba a ring, there customer service is excellent, and since the TV came directly from them , I can't see a reason that you need ever phone your supplier, they are removed from the equation..
     
  23. JohnC

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    I would just add a little more to what Demon said!
    I bought my current Toshiba 33 inch CRT job from ColorVision who ceased trading a few months after!!

    At that time I wasn't 100% happy with the picture. So I contacted Toshiba who took on my Colorvision 5 year warrantee no problem and I had excellent Service and Communications from them concerning the picture, they even arranged for it to be soak tested in their local main agents workshop!!

    I've had this 33 inch almost 8 years now, its been switched on from 7.30 am to 11.30 p.m. every day, endured countless power cuts/interruption's, but has never failed and still has lots of ooommmfffff picture wise! (Older TV's would never have survived the short sharp power interruption's, for sure!)

    If I buy from 'Unbeatable' and its true that Toshiba will deal with any after sales problems, then that's a perfect combination of ""low price and excellent service!!""

    Be good to hear this confirmed from the horses mouth though!!

    Kind regards John C



     
  24. MikeTPC

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    Well I'll be ordering mine from them this week by the looks of it.

    If you're in no rush I'd be happy to keep you updated with how the order goes and how it is when it arrives.
     
  25. nero041001

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    any more opinions on playing games for 4-8 hrs on a toshiba rear projection set??
     
  26. nero041001

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    im sorry to keep on about how safe it is for playing games too im just so worried that im gonna go out and buy a set and get screen burn after a few months cos i like to play a lot of games and play on average 4-8hrs sometimes less a day

    ive been told about turning the contrast and brightness down to help but has anyone else tried this too and got some results please if you could post weather this method has workd for you and how long it has worked for you

    Do you need to worry about screen burn if the game doesnt have any static images will gameplay alone without them on display damage the set?

    Please can a few of you give me your opinions and expierences with playing consoles on your rptv's and how long you would play them for with and without static images as i need to move on and know weather to worry about gameing on a rptv or not

    and can you use a rptv as a normal tv for casual watching eg a mornings viewing from 9am-12am and an afternoon/evenings viewing from 4pm-about2am? as i am disabled and cannot work and it is the main thing i can do tv/movies and games

    please can some people advise me.thanks for your time
     
  27. JohnC

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    Mike, I would appreciate that very much!!
    I shall be out and about looking at RPTV today, just hope I can find a reasonable set up to asses what Im letting myself in for.
    Regards John
     
  28. nathan_silly

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    Nero- if you're worried about screenburn (and would leave Windows Desktop/HUD images on screen for hours at a time) maybe you should consider a LCD rear/front projector or LCD panel?

    LCD's don't suffer from screen burn. Although LCD technology does have some negatives to it (LCD dead/lit pixel, LCD panel heat soak, bulb cost, heat, noise, poor blacks, more prone to dust)
     
  29. MarkR

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    My most played game at the moment is Tiger Woods on the Xbox, I play that upto 4 hours a session. So far I have noticed no screen burn, but also bearing in mind that on that game there is not really a fixed image that stays there all the time. The other games I do play, that do have a fixed image, I only play for about 2 hours and so far it seems to be fine.
    Sounds silly but why dont you, after 2 hours, have a 10 minute break and in the meanwhile just put the normal TV on and then go back to the game.
    My main concern was about screenburn but after reading a few other peoples experiences I felt reasonbily confident that providing you set up your TV correctly i.e contrast, brightness you should not occur any problems. If you dont then you may get screenburn as quickly as 10 minutes

    Hope this helps!!:)
     
  30. MikeTPC

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    Bugger I have a problem again now, I went to see one of these today:

    which is also 100hz on the new model and it looked really nice. Do I spend the extra £100 or so on the Tosh? Arrrrghhhhh.
     

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