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Rotel RMB 1075 & Pioneer VSX-D1011 Question

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by andydeacon, Jan 21, 2004.

  1. andydeacon

    andydeacon
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    Hi all,

    I have had an integrated receiver (pioneer VSX-D1011) for approx 12 months now, but have never been happy with its audio (2 channel) performance. I decided last week to bypass the amplifier stages in all but two channels (surround back) and allow a Rotel RMB 1075 5 channel amp to take the strain.

    I am very impressed with the results, both in 2 channel and full 6.1 soundtracks.

    My question is, how would this setup compare to me replacing the Pioneer VSX-D1011 with a dedicated processor? I cannot help but feel that the Pioneer will not perform as well as a dedicated separate processor.

    I am also using the Pioneer DVD-656A to play DVD audio / SACD and CDs, could this also be a limitation when playing back CD 2 channel sources. Would a dedicated CD player improve the situation by say getting a NAD C521 to cope with CDs?

    Many Thanks.
     
  2. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    The NAD C521 will offer very little (if any) improvement over your pioneer for straight CD playback. If you're looking for an improvement you can immediately hear I'd suggest something in Cyrus CD6 category.

    The Pioneer VSX-D1011 has unusually competent processing, and you'll have to spend a fair bit on a dedicated processor to significantly better it. Probably well over £1,000. Try auditioning some dedicated processors in your setup and see if you're happy with the improvement.
     
  3. andydeacon

    andydeacon
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    Thanks very much for an informative reply.

    I was considering going for a Rotel processor at some point to go with my RMB1075, but am reluctant as it doesn't support DTS 96/24 (and my D1011 does - along with all other current formats available).

    If the processing on the D1011 is particularily competent already, I might invest my money in a good CD transport and leave a new processor for later.

    Thanks again.
     
  4. kill3r

    kill3r
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    In an AV amp test carried out last year by Hi Fi News, they measured the Pioneer 2011 (same processing as the 1011) as the best processing unit out of the six comparable units they tested, including a £1100 Rotel.

    Bass Management is especially well dealt with by the Pioneers.

    I would agree with Dimmy, you'd need to spend well in excess of £1000 to buy a dedicated processor that would significantly outperform the 1011.
     
  5. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Andydeacon - it's been said on these forums, by some, that the processing of the VSX-D2011 and 1011 is actually better than that of Rotel's RSP-1066 processor.
     
  6. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    About a year ago I bought a 2011 and used it on it's own for a while. I then added an A85 and mid year moved to all Musical Fidelity powers with the 2011 as a processor.

    This week I bought a Meridian 565. I am still in the early stages of setup and familiarisation but it was configured by the previous owner for my layout and speakers.

    I have only watched Gladiator and LOTRFR so far but I am hearing parts of the soundtrack which I haven't before. It's all about the subtle things, voices sound more natural, the rattle of armour, creak of tent ropes, a small stream far right I never noticed before.

    I still think the 2011 was an absolute bargain but I can now see/hear what people mean about a seperate Pre/Pro and Power combination.

    Gus
     
  7. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Will you be selling that Pioneer Gus?
     
  8. kill3r

    kill3r
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    The 2011 is about £450 second hand - the 1011 about £375 second hand. How does that compare, price wise, to the kit you have above bought second hand?
     
  9. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    Had planned on moving it upstairs to replace my Yamaha 3090.

    Don't think I would get a lot for it now.
     
  10. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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  11. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    I got the 565 for £600 delivered.
     
  12. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Alternatively gus, I'd be interested in your 2011...
     
  13. fred123go

    fred123go
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    go get a second hand lexicon dc-2 for about £800 second hand, it WILL offer huge improvements over your processing of your 1011, if it is the same as my pioneer 2011.
    I upgraded too seperates from my 2011 and everything has improved, as the others have said it is subtle things that you hear, steering is better and sound previously 'muffled' by your 1011 in the rears will become much clearer. voices also appear more natural. the use of logic 7 is great as well, but i can't actually take advantage of 7.1, when applied to 5.1 it is very effective.
    fred
    p.s and gus i completely agree with gladiator, especially, i am hearing things i have never heard before, the rattling of armour and voices from the rears are much more clearer
     
  14. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Fred - did you not use your DC-2 with differet poweramps, different speakers etc etc?
     
  15. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    So it was YOU who beat me to the ad on the Tag website!:D

    Chatted to Ian - the guy who you bought it from - for while, top bloke. Amazing price for a 565 too....:)

    btw pm if you'd be interested in selling the D2011....
     
  16. fred123go

    fred123go
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    No dimmy i didn't use it with different power amps or speakers, so i suppose it is unfair, but i did notice a lot more detail in films and that the steering was a lot better. So it was obvious that although i had an improved amplification and speakers that the processing part was spot on and much improved
    cheers
    fred
     
  17. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Lol @ your signature fred, "my nice little play room".

    Admittedly matt's DC-2 did sound very good indeed to my ears.
     
  18. fred123go

    fred123go
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    haha matt,
    but honestly i couldn't possibly listen to a movie without logic 7, it makes films so damn good. Oh yeah army bloke came over and calibrated my speakers, in exchange for a sub cable, and i am now very very happy with the results. I love that little black box of tricks
    cheers
    fred
     
  19. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    Yep, guess since the shake up it's not as popular a place, the 565 advert was placed on Thursday and I phoned on the offchance on Sunday afternoon, never expected it to be there but to my surprise it was. Ian's a really nice guy who offered to set up the system for my room and speaker types for me. It arrived this Monday with all the original manuals, remote, cables and boxes. Well chuffed with it so far, it really is amazing considering the age of it, and performing beyond expectation, I figured at the price if I didn't like it I could move it on via classifieds here or ebay.

    I was a bit reluctant to go for a 565/561/dc2/mc1 because I would miss out on the newer formats like DTS ES Discrete, which although not in widespread use are on a lot of my favourite movies, which I watch again and again. However the 7.1 Meridian modes are just superb and I am not regretting it one bit. :smashin:

    In the end I got fedup with all the possible upgrade options, Tag, AV8, Halo, Rotel, used, new, the next big thing around the corner etc and thought I might as well find out first hand if a pre/pro is the way to go without too much risk. If something like a 565 is better than a 2011 then a newer pre/pro must be well clear performance wise and worth saving for.

    I'm going to see how the 2011 does upstairs where we have Sky+ etc for the DPLII, if I decide to sell it I will definately send you a pm (and Dimmy ;) ), good luck with your rejig, must have been a wrench letting it all go :(

    Now, do I delete all my links to used hifi websites or start looking for a 568.2 :devil:

    Gus
     
  20. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Gus - I can wait for an amp upgrade, Matt currently hasn't got an amp, so if you decide to sell the 2011 it'd be great if you could give him first refusal.
     
  21. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    will do, am away from home tomorrow until Monday so I guess it will be end of next week before I decide.
     
  22. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    :D

    tbh it wasn't too much of a wrench selling all my kit, half the fun for me is trying new stuff out etc, and when I totted up my total spend for this year I was rather shocked:eek:

    Aside from my power amps where I lost money (I bought them brand new) I've not lost a penny on the buying/selling front, so I consider myself quids in (that I've enjoyed the kit but not lost any money).

    My current experiment should yield some interesting results (downgrading to an integrated amp and actives), so I'm looking forward to getting it all hooked up again:D

    And go on, flog your Pioneer, you dont really need PLII;) (at least that's an expensive way to keep PLII!)
     
  23. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    You'll be the 1st to know if I'm selling :laugh:

    If you're getting actives why an integrated and not a cheap processor?

    Gus
     
  24. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    See this thread: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114061

    I'm going to actives across the front 3 for now, so I either need a processor and poweramp for the rears or go the integrated route: looking at cost, it's much more effective to go the integrated route. Dunno if I'll hear too much of a compromise though...
     
  25. Spligsey

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    Has Ian J ok'd that move?

    Adz
     
  26. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    :confused: You lost me there spligsey....
     
  27. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    Using an integrated would definately seem the economic way to go. As it won't have to drive the front 3 it should have plenty of headroom to run the rears.

    I've been moving amps around all year with my HiFi and AV. Tonight I had the 565 / 308 fronts / 3.2 Centre and the 2011 driving the sides and rears. In Blade, again there were parts of the soundtrack I never really noticed before and others such as when the Dr is getting dropped off at her apartment and papers in the street are being blown around, the whole rear soundstage came alive, it was way better than the 2011 on it's own, obviously part due to the 565 but part due to the easier load on the 2011 power amps I suspect.

    All the stuff I have bought since the 2011 a year ago has been used or ex-dem, except for a turntable. I've got a really top notch system now that would have cost a whole load of dosh more if I had bought it new.

    Gus
     
  28. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Don't say that Gus - you're going to tempt Matt back into the pre/power arena again :laugh:
     
  29. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    2nd hand is (generally) the way to go. So long as you know the prices to pay and roughly what you're looking for you can't go wrong.

    I have a simple moto when it comes to equipment: if I can get it for a good price then I'll get it...if - when it's in my own cinema room (as that's the ONLY way to truly demo something) - it doesn't sound how I want it to, then I can always sell it on and not lose anything:)

    nb: actually that's a lie, I've spent a bloody fortune on petrol picking up all this kit! -
     
  30. andydeacon

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    Thanks all for your informative answers to my original question.

    I now have two more based on a similar subject.

    Equipment:
    Pioneer VSX-D1011
    Rotel THX 5 channel Amp RMB-1075
    B&W CC6 centre
    B&W 603S2 main pairs
    Rel Q100 Subwoofer
    4 x Mission Dipole surrounds (77DS)

    Question 1: Would I benefit from using the D1011 to feed the main left and right speakers with the surround back set to front bi-amp (doubling the power). Then use the now spare two channels on the RMB1075 to power the Surround back speakers through the surround back pre outs on my D1011. Would the sound quality for 2 channel be better that way? Would it work?

    Questions 2: I have only just purchased the Rotel RMB1075 (last Saturday), but think that I have a bottle neck somewhere. Namely my Centre speaker. I am not convinced that the centre is up to the job (yes it sounds better than before but not quite as good as I expected). I could replace the Centre, but would want to keep to the B&W range. Any suggestions guys? (Don't want to buy something too good as I suppose it would then show deficiencies elsewhere in my setup, oh money money money).

    Cheers

    Andy
     

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