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Rotel discount

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by rags, Apr 13, 2003.

  1. rags

    rags
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    I am looking to buy the the Rotel 1066 / 1075 combo but cant find any shops willing to discount anywhere - all qoute around £1850 for the combo.

    Does anyone out there know of where to buy this from at a lower price + whats the best price out there ?

    Thanks
     
  2. nathan_silly

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    1075 going on these forums.. buy it now!

    I would not buy a Rotel processor, personally I think they're nothing brilliant. Good poweramps though.

    [edit] Lexicon MC-1's are going for £1500 with 1 year warranty from CSE. Blows away the Rotel, and more configurable (the THX Sub peak limiter is worth the price alone)

    Although it lacks 5.1/7.1 input and Pro-Logic II and some of the newer sound formats (but it does decode Pro-Logic, DD, DTS and THX spec)
     
  3. rags

    rags
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    Not sure if the one Bob007 is selling is still available.

    Anyone know of any stores which discount these ?
     
  4. rags

    rags
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    Nathan - can the MC1 be upgraded for some of the newer formats ?

    Also what is CSE (sorry to sound dumb) ?
     
  5. nathan_silly

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    No, it can't. But if you want the BEST sound quality for £1500, then I would say go for it (better than Korean made stuff anyday)

    CSE is the UK distibtuter. E-Mail from CSE ...

    " We have started to get MC1's back in on the trade in against MC8.These
    units will be sold back to the trade and should sell for about £1500.They
    have all had a full check and come with a full war'.These units will not be
    able to be used in the trade in for MC8.If you have any questions please
    feel free to give us a call on01423 359054."

    Lexicon MC-1 link...

    http://www.lexicon.com/mc1/index.asp

    Bob's 1075 is still up for sale..
     
  6. sounddog

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    But bob's 1075 plus an MC-1 is still a lot more than the best price you'll get on the Rotel ... which will be new and with dealer backup and warranty
     
  7. petrolhead

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    I would try for Bobs 1075 I can thoroughly recomment i having just taken delivery of one recently. BTW paid £750 from 7oaks
     
  8. nathan_silly

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    Nice SD buying the 1075. How many poweramps do you need???!!!

    MC-1 WILL have a 1 year warranty & dealer backup!
     
  9. rags

    rags
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    I didnt think that seven oaks discounted. At least they didnt to me on the telephone.

    I could buy the 1075 and use it with the processor on my Yamaha DSP A2 amp for the time being. Looking to sell the A2 but no one interested in buying - might as well make use of it.
     
  10. chips

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    Moving to Amplifiers forum.
     
  11. sounddog

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    Okay ... but it will still be nearly 70% more than the RSP1066 ...

    Buy an MC1 is NOT the answer to every question about the RSP1066.

    Yes the RSP1066 isn't the be all and end all of AV processors ... but buying an RSP1066 won't disappoint.

    Vikki
     
  12. rags

    rags
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    How much better would a l066 / 1075 combo sound than the A2. I am also looking to change my Mirage speakers for B&W ones (603 S3's). Are these a good fit with the rotels ?

    Anyway now totally confused as to what option to go with.
     
  13. nathan_silly

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    It's called recommending a alternative. Has the loud pop when switching inputs been fixed? A problem I'll say. I certainly won't hold onto the hope Rotel release a fix.

    Anyway isn't the MC-1 50% more? (list of the 1066 is £1000)

    Rags do a search regarding the B&W's. I oppose Soundog's praises! :D

    Alot of hype/What Hi-Fi recommended.


    Some reviews...

    http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_119127_1594crx.aspx

    The reviewers giving low marks are spot on. Lacking in midrange, harsh forced treble, bloated bass, boomy. You can but better speakers - M&K/Kef/Ruark outperform them.
     
  14. sounddog

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    An alternative is fine ... however list of the 1066 is £900 ... avaliable for £810 ... making the MC-1 @ £1500 185% (or 85% more) of the price that the RSP1066 is avaliable for. If we're talking of alternatives ... you should be able to pick up a S/H TAG AV32R for upwards of £1300 (depending on features) direct from TAG or there is the Cyrus AV8 to consider too for £1200.

    As for issuing fixes ... Rotel have been regularly releasing firmware update for the RSP1066 ... both fixing issues and adding features that USERS have requested. Also they are working on sorting out users concerns with the way bass management has been implemented and (from what I understand) will soon be offering a return to base free hardware fix (that can also be carried out by end user with no warranty issues). Yes the Rotel RSP1066 doesn't have any provision for upgrading processor, etc like the TAG ... but then neither does the MC-1. Also how many more firmware fixes / additions will there be for the MC1 ... probably none!!

    Yes I think (most) B&W speakers are good ... others have an opposing view - thats fine but what relevance does that have here? (Except I own both and B&W distribute Rotel in the UK I suppose). I also think the RSP1066 is a GREAT processor for its cost ... if I could afford more I would have demo'd TAG, Arcam and Lexicon.

    Nathan ... whats the point of pointing to a review of the 603 s2 when I don't own 603 s2 speakers? And if you are pointing to the review saying that other people are saying the 603 s2 arn't good ... I think 4.62 out of 5 from over 100 reviews sounds good to me. (The 602 s2 get a 4.52 out of 5 from over 170 reviews by the way).

    Vikki

    PS. Missed your question RE B&W 603s3 ... yes these will fit well sound wise with the Rotel 1066/1075 combo ... but they do need a good sized room to work well in and need to be situated away from the wall.
     
  15. nathan_silly

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    Regarding the high marks- I would guess owner pride is getting in their way - most people would not slate something they own.

    I agree alot of good reviews.-at the end of the day the B&W sound is forced and aggressive- great for a demo session and home theatre, but I can't leave with the sound- it's not right.

    The sound of a range usually goes up the range- just more bass.

    If I ask a question- are you affiliated with Rotel or B&W in anyway? With close to 30,000 members on these forums a few good comments from alot of B&W owners defending their gear would sell more.

    I own B&W, and several other speakers- Ruark & Kef sound better. Have you used better amplification and tried the B&W's out? I believe your upper midrange pre-amp/poweramp is not bringing forth the B&W sound- what I have heard.

    Agree with the MC-1 will not receive further updates- but (I) don't care with DTS-ES EX blah blah gimmicky sound formats. I want the best Dolby Digital & DTS processing, and not settle for a lesser unit with bugs (and more features)
     
  16. sounddog

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    At the end of the day none of this is helping rags who has no idea at all now of what to do. I can't really help you ... except to say that for the money there is nothing to touch the RSP1066. You have to (to my mind) spend at least 50% more on the processor to get anything better - and that will buy you a second hand TAG A32R (which can be upgraded) or a Lexicon MC1 (which has reached the end of its life).

    ---

    I agree most people won't slate things they own ... unless they are very bad. Personally I think "out of x" marks arn't relevant ... people either love or hate things they buy - trying to quantify how much you love or hate something just isn't possible for most people to do constructively.

    I have no links with any HiFi manufacturer or retailer. If you look I also quite regularly praise NAD, Marantz and Arcam kit which I've owned previously. I think that the number of good comments you get reflect the number of people who own B&W kit, they are (from memory) the biggest manufacturer of speakers in the UK so it stands to reason that more people will be here to give good comments out. Also, however much advertising you do, you don't get to be the biggest manufacturer of anything without having good products.

    I've used the B&W kit with various amplification at home: NAD C320, Sony 930, Marantz SR5200, Rotel RA1060, single and bi-amped Rotel RB970 MkII and single and bi-amped Rotel RB985 MkII. Yes non of this amplification is super high-end ... but is representative (I would think) of the sort of amplification that most people would use with £300 (front) speakers.

    "Ruark and KEF sound better" ... I would dispute that and say they primarily they sound different ... just as Mission, Dynaudio, Tannoy and Wharfedale sound different. I know that many will disagree with me, but I just don't hold with the idea that any speaker can be "perfect" and to me that doesn't matter ... music isn't (for me) to be analysed ... it's to be enjoyed.

    You say you don't care about DTS-ES, etc, etc ... but you have recently posted asking what are the best speakers to use for centre back channels now you've bought your MC-1. Personally I would never buy anything now without PLII as I feel it is a very worthwhile upgrade over and above the original Pro Logic. Also I want multi-channel input for DVD-A / SACD.

    Yes there have been a few bugs in the RSP1066 ... there have also been bugs in the AV32R Dual Processor version. But both Rotel and TAG have worked to fix those bugs. The MC1 is a dead end product ... the RSP1066 is a current product - thats one of the major points for me.
     
  17. nathan_silly

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    Lexicon's Logic 7 is equal to Pro-Logic II.

    :)

    Logic 7, 7 channel is superior to DTS ES. Reason asking for rears, not for DTS-ES/DD EX but Logic 7's AWESOME sound field!

    :)

    True the MC-1 is a dead-end product. Still beats new processors for sound quality- that's more important. A new Sony Processor will no doubt have all the newest DTS/DD/Pro-Logic II/MP3 etc. Will it sound better than the Lex?

    I could have gone for the Tag- it's upgradeable & at a similar price, but Lexicon still beats it for sound quality!
     
  18. sounddog

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    Forgot to say ... in terms of cost ... the RSP1066 + RMB1075 is more comperable to Denon's A11SR or Pioneers AX10i. The big advantage of the Rotel combo is that if later you want to upgrade to a better processor you already have power amps that are upto the task.

    Rotel also have their own 7ch ... but whatever you call it it's still an additional "gimick" not just "the best DD / DTS decoding possible" that you talked about. And Logic 7 will never be as good (IMO) as DTS-ES Discrete which is properly mixed 6 channels rather than an attempt at expanding 5 channels into 6 (or 7).

    Vikki

    PS. sorry got prices wrong ... List for 1066 is £995, we paid £910 with 3 pairs of good cables ... making the refurbished (or second hand or however its sold) MC-1 only 65% more.
     
  19. nathan_silly

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    List price...

    £995 + 65% = £1651
    £995 + 50% = £1495

    If you want to upgrade the MC-1 you'll need to get AT LEAST a MC-8 at £5000 to be worthwhile- no doubt over most people's budget.
     
  20. sounddog

    sounddog
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    I'm not talking LIST PRICE ... I'm talking about prices that the units are generally avaliable for. 10% off list price for a new unit is not unusual ... but I don't expect you'll get anything off the £1500 price of the MC1. And even talking list price ... 50% more is a big increase.

    As for replacing the MC-1 at a later date ... (and this is conjuncture) ... arn't the AV32R and the Arcam AV8 (amonst others) generally regarded as being better than the MC-1 ... now you probably wouldn't replace and MC-1 with one of these because the performance increase isn't worth it ... but you may pay the extra 1-2k more to begin with.

    I'm not trying to say that the RSP1066 is as good as the MC-1 (or other processors) ... what I am saying is that the Rotel is a good unit for the price, is a current model so will be supported for a lot longer than the MC-1, and is a third cheeper than the MC-1 - and probably unless you're going to spend a lot more on speakers, you're unlikely to hear much difference in sound quality.

    Vikki
     
  21. nathan_silly

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    Rags said he couldn't get a reduction, so I'm using the list price.

    You did, so you're working the figures to your advantage.

    And with the Arcam QC control I would not touch the thing, and Tag seems a bit buggy as well.

    Nope, Tag isn't as good as the Lex :laugh:

    Come off it- you want a FURTHER REDUCTION on the MC-1?? It was £5500 when new!!
     
  22. sounddog

    sounddog
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    I'm using figures that anyone can get going to the right shop. I will happily tell anyone where to go to get 10% off either to get price matching or to use them - and they have an RSP1066 in stock (well did yesterday) ... so yes I'm using the best case figures ... but thats no difference than you using worse case figures to prove your point.

    Arcam QC ... I don't remember ever seeing any comments recently reguarding general quality problems with Arcams kit ... you've in previous posts inaccurately claimed that Arcam products are currently made in the Far East ...

    Tag being buggy ... this I assume refers to the Dual Sharc problem Steve.EX had - which is either already solved or being solved at the moment ...

    You don't like TAG and Arcam kit ... thats fine ... but at least be accurate in what you write.

    And no ... I don't want further reduction on the MC-1 ... I want a piece of kit that supports all current formats ... and my point was that you HAVE to pay £1500 if you want an MC-1 from CSE, you don't HAVE to pay £1000 for an RSP1066 if you shop around.

    Vikki
     
  23. nathan_silly

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    OK I was wrong with the Arcam's being made in Far East-however the AV amps are (and re-badged NAD's I believe)

    Nope, nothing to do with Steve's faulty EX. I've been in email contact with several Tag AV32R owner's who are pretty annoyed with it... they changed over to a MC-1, and given me reasons to avoid the Tag and go for the MC-1 (along with the imrpoved sound quality and solid software)
     
  24. sounddog

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    The AVR100 was virtually same as the NAD T741 I belive yes ... so at last is something we agree on :) Not sure how different the AVR200 was though ... I know they added PLII so it might just have been firmware that was changed.

    Vikki
     
  25. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Can I ask Nathan ... do you have any relation to the trade?
     
  26. nathan_silly

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    Nope.

    Actually I guess I do!

    I buy stuff! :)

    Anyway if I was anti-Rotel or pro-Rotel I would either say Rotel processors and poweramps are rubbish, or Rotel processors and poweramps are great (and not Rotels processors are average, Rotel poweramps are great):D
     
  27. chino

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    I feel someone else should interject something into this thread, so I will.

    I don't own B&W speakers but my brother does, and I can say that I feel for £300 there isn't a better speaker you can buy. I have listened to many in the price range. I also demoed some 603 s3's when I bought my Monitor Audio S6's, i thought they were both better than the Kef Q5's.

    I would always buy products which are current rather than outdated as I have had problems with obselete products in the past.

    Chino
     
  28. Steve.EX

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    Nathan.
    i would perhaps take issue with the MC1 outperforming the (newer) Tags.
    Anyone with experience of some of the higher end processors would (in general) say the MC1 was NOT worthy of the 5500 price tag.
    When i bought my original av32r, it was from a friend who had just purchased the Tag having owned the MC1 for quite some time, when we demo'ed the two at his house (side by side) so to speak we both agreed that we prefered the MC1 to the "vanilla" (as it was then before i added 24/192khz dac's, 7.1 board, PL2, DTS-ES discrete etc) av32r, but and i hasten to add BUT, that the preference was based on really quite "small" differences. This rather enforced MY opinion (and reinforced my second hand info) that the 250% increase in cost betwwen the two units was in NO way relative to their respective performances.
    Hence i had the choice to buy either his new av32r or the older MC1 as he was not at all "bothered" as to which he kept (ah - to be well at heel eh?).
    Needless to say i took the TAG.
    I have been informed (Stuart. M. Robinson) that Lex do indeed refine their Logic 7 and i would indeed agree it is the match of PL2 IMO, although whether they have finished with these "up-grades" for the MC1 i am not at this time aware.
    i would say that the new dual sharc equipped Tag's are very much the match of the MC1. The additions of TMREQ move the potential MUCH further along IMHO."
    As to whether DTS-ES discrete, PL2, THX2, refined bass management and boundary control are "gimmicky" are at the least a matter of opinion.
    The quality of processing for these extended surround modes etc in no way detracts from vanilla 5.1 processing.
    I sincerely hope that this is NOT interpretted as a "mines bigger than yours" type of thing, but can i say that with all due respect you seem to have the slightest "Rotel-o-phobic" slant, and i would take issue with your generalisation of MC1 is better than "XXX".

    P.S do you actually use the bass limiter function ? whilst this has a place in life, is it not directed to the "Yamaha" end of the subwoofer market.
    I have often wondered as to who would have a several thousand pound whatever and connect a PDR10 or the like requiring such a filter to it.

    Regards/Respectfully.

    Steve.

    P.P.S My Tag was returned 3 days later and has been "uber" enjoyable.
     
  29. nathan_silly

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    No I'm not using a Yamaha, I will have a SVS sometime- and I'll still use the THX sub peak limiter. My decent subwoofer still has problems with screwed up DVD's, so the peak limiter is VERY useful (which the Rotel lacks)

    In fact the Sub Peak limiter is more important with budget subs- you're more likely to push to sub past it's capability.

    Read my other posts. I do not slate Rotel Poweramps- just the processors.

    I would say the £5500 was a bit much. Agree with you on that.
     
  30. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    Nathan.

    I have lived with the sub peak limiter function for a couple of years now and have never used it.
    From the outside casual observer (to me at least) it does seem that whenever a thread containing yourself, Sounddog and Rotel appears there is usually a "tete a' tete" at some point.

    Regards

    Steve.
     

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