RoomPerfect adds bass instead of reduce it

Steve356

Distinguished Member
2) I read above that, since my subs aren't stick to the wall, the distance must be entry from the front wall and not from the back of the subs. That is a false information, because the distance is always from the back of the subs and not from the front wall;

Can I ask who told you this? Lyngdorf?
 

RiseFall123

Novice Member
Can I ask who told you this? Lyngdorf?
Yes, After Sales Manager from Lyngdorf:

"When the subs are not against the wall you should measure the distance to the backplate of the sub."

So, correct me if I'm wrong, means from the back to the sub to my ears.
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
Yes, After Sales Manager from Lyngdorf:

"When the subs are not against the wall you should measure the distance to the backplate of the sub."

So, correct me if I'm wrong, means from the back to the sub to my ears.

But your subs look like they are positioned close to the bass traps which are on the wall. Is this correct?

If so, then they (Lyngdorf) have completely changed their view on this (or the After Sales Manager has it wrong) as I've had the good fortune to meet a couple of Steinway Lyngdorf experts in person as well as seeing how they do the measurements and they have consistently measured to the wall behind the subs unless the subs are well into the room (not usually an ideal position).

It's entirely up to you how you measure however and it may or may not be part of your sound problems.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Hi again,

first, let me thank everyone who are writing in my thread for all the advices.

Just some clarifications:

1) I read from someone that the treatment of the room painted in the sketch does not correspond to the real treatment. I don't know why you said that, but it is as in the sketch, mostly of the acoustic panels are from an italian company named "Oudimmo", very good quality;

2) I read above that, since my subs aren't stick to the wall, the distance must be entry from the front wall and not from the back of the subs. That is a false information, because the distance is always from the back of the subs and not from the front wall;

3) some months ago, I tried to remove most of the treatment (in particolar what's is behind the speakers), the little furnitures at the sides of the TV, and stick the Metas on the wall, and stick also one only KC62 to the wall (at time I didn't have the second); I don't cleary remember if I had some benefits with RoomPerfect in such way, but, I cleary remember that I totally dislike the image of the loudspeakers, then I put everything back as now and I found again the beautiful, vivid, rich, 3D imagine that I have now; This doesn't mean that I won't try your advice to remove everything and stick everything to the wall again;

Something to remind:

1) the room is sadly a square 4,5x4,5x2,9

2) the system is Lyngorf TDAI-3400+KEF LS50 Meta+Stand S2 filled+Dual KEF KC62

3) the Metas are 2,70 meters apart, 33cm from the front wall, 100cm from each side

4) I listen at 3,00 meters from them and behind my head I have 1,30 meters

This is the actual furniture disposition:

View attachment 1720714

This is a photo of the front wall:

View attachment 1720699

I'm attacking some REW measurements, "b" means "Bypass/no correction", "g" means "Global/RoomPerfect", "my" means "Bypass/no correction/my own EQ".

It's Left+Right+Sub.

I'm now working with Metas at 100hz LR 4th and KC62's at 100hz LR 4th -12dB, 1/4 of the volume on the sub, LFE.

Said everything above, I remember to you that what RoomPerfect does is a virtual "LOUDNESS" button on the sound.

RoomPerfect, instead of make the bass more "slim", "slighter", "faster", "effortless", it gives weight to the sound. At first, I try to acclimate my ear to it, and, on acoustic or good recording music, RoomPerfect sounds very good... but after I back to BYPASS, immedialely my ears start to breath, the sound become "faster", the midbass hump/boomy is reduced, etc.

Just a note, the correction of RoomPerfect seen on the "STATUS" on the settings, is 9%. And I always had these values, from 7% to max 14% (mostly I have from 7% to 9%, Global or Focus no matters).

My actual setup sounds awesome on every single detail of the sound frequencies, from the most lower end to the sparkle highs (always effortless, no matter the quality of the recordings), but my only complain are the mid-lows hump, that I find fatiguing.

Classic music, real-life instruments (guitars, pianos, cellos, etc.) sound perfect in BYPASS and even more with Focus or Global but when we have a song with some punch, I have the issue, that only issue. And in those scenarios is always better BYPASS.

Without wishing to be rude, I can’t see how that room set-up with all those things in it can sound anything but like listening to screechy porridge.
 

RiseFall123

Novice Member
Theorically, RoomPerfect will wipe the flutter echo?

Because, without "all those things", I have an huge echo on the room. That's disappear just adding this treatment.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
It will. I don’t pretend to understand the mathematics involved in the RP algorithms, except to say that they been being developed and improved for two decades and modern DSP is astonishing. The processing power is prodigious.

It may well simply be that RP is not your thing. ..

But you really need to let it do what it’s supposed to do before any judgement. And that room is quite the very opposite of the design brief for Lyngdorf.

If you decide to do it properly in an empty room with a bit of positioning experimentation and find anomalies, then would be the time to experiment with minimal use and placement of any room treatment.

And I seriously doubt you’d need a single bass trap.

The square room point is a valid one indeed though. The worst shape for sound.
 
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Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ps, I’ve just recalled that the Kef subs are double drivers, so instead of flat against the rear corners, I’d place them in the corners at a 90^ angle so that one driver points to the rear wall and the other to the side wall.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Pps, you might try altering, backward or forward, your listening seat. Echoes are position dependent for volume and coincidence.

Little changes can have big consequences.

And, as it’s a square room, subs in the corner will be even more important.

It will make the bass effectively originate from one point, rather than rebounding from several walls at different times. That will make RPs job considerably more straightforward.
 

RiseFall123

Novice Member
Then, you are suggesting to do this:

1.JPG


Removing all the bass traps and treatment.

Just another info, in the home, I have another room, similar-square, irregular:

2.jpg

Do you think this room could be acoustically better than the square one?
 

DT79

Distinguished Member
Then, you are suggesting to do this:

View attachment 1721026

Removing all the bass traps and treatment.

Just another info, in the home, I have another room, similar-square, irregular:

View attachment 1721028
Do you think this room could be acoustically better than the square one?
I completely agree with Paul that yes you should do this. Start off with the speakers very close to the wall, then experiment with moving them out (not the subs) after your first run of RP. if you prefer it with them further out then save your config so you can go back if needed and try running RP again.

Just make sure you follow the instructions when running RP too.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Then, you are suggesting to do this:

View attachment 1721026

Removing all the bass traps and treatment.

Just another info, in the home, I have another room, similar-square, irregular:

View attachment 1721028
Do you think this room could be acoustically better than the square one?

I am indeed suggesting just that. (The drawing layout).

I’m aware you’re invested in the idea of room treatment, and with some cash thrown in. But it really isn’t the answer.

A proper room treatment is a professional affair from beginning to end.

The maths needed, the methods and lore of proper measurements and a better than working knowledge of all useable materials and their properties is not rocket science.

But it is complex enough that an amateur attempt is doomed to failure compared to a modern DSP approach.
 

gava

Well-known Member
Well sometimes to get to the correct destination it's best not to start going down another route first.

I have no real patience with the idea of using specialist room treatment in a living room. Bookcases full of books work fine as diffusers, soft furnishings including canvas paintings and curtains work well as absorbers, a sensible mix of bookcases and art work will deal with mid and treble.

Bass can only be managed with woofer placement, room geometry and maths. Unless you have the luxury of a custom build, that's what the DSP engines are for.

If you want a custom listening room and can afford it, it seems worth giving these folks a call. :)

 
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