Promoted Room Treatment – This Year's Snake Oil?

Ahsoka92

Standard Member
Oddly enough i havent heard of RoomPerfect yet. I am familiar with Trinnov, Audissey and Dirac. Is it worth it to look into RoomPerfect?
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Oddly enough i havent heard of RoomPerfect yet. I am familiar with Trinnov, Audissey and Dirac. Is it worth it to look into RoomPerfect?

Go anywhere near Lyngdorf threads and you’ll hear about nothing else ...
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member

Apollo

Well-known Member
And maybe there is a good reason for that :thumbsup:
To be fair it is their thread, hardly likely to be recommending anything else 😂
 

Kingchin

Active Member
Room treatments are proven to make a room sound audibly better (sometimes much better) than without any if done right, it definitely isn't snake oil. If that was the case all the premium Dolby Atmos and IMAX cinemas would just be bare walls without any absorbers and diffusers. And all the listening rooms of the top music studios some of which are very small would also be only bare walls.

Yes some acoustic room treatment company's are more interested in your money, profit so will try to do a convincing sales pitch to get your sales. But the same can also be said for some of the companies selling the very expensive room correction EQ systems. Using reputable knowledgeable helpful companies for both approaches is easily done after a bit of research.

Do disagree that most UK rooms are good for acoustics. Majority of friends family I know these days have laminate/wooden flooring compared to 10, 15 years ago when it was usually a carpet. If you have a big 7.1.4 or even a 5.1.2 set up a rug isn't going to cut it to stop all the echoes bouncing off the laminate.

Add to that the average UK size room is most cases small, it isn't usually bigger than 20 feet by 17 feet. You are going to get lots of faster louder reflections as the side walls are very close to the speakers. Most UK rooms would benefit from acoustic room treatments and sound audibly better. Though most people don't want to hang up lots of acoustic panels, and even if they wanted to their partners wouldn't let them.

In that case room correction EQ is the only option to try and mask over the physical room. Though even the best room corrections are still very flawed as even the most advanced mic/multiple mic's and processing. Will never capture process the sound information anywhere near the way a human ear and brain does.

Subwoofers are a bit different as some EQ can tame them. Along with multiple subs to smooth the bass out instead of having to use massive corner bass traps. If problems persist after room treatments then some moderate room correction could help. Or you could just buy different speakers that interact with the room better.

Audioholics have done a few video series with Anthony Grimani in the past few weeks on small room acoustics. He has changed his previous stance on no room correction and using multiple subs when no space for bass traps. If the speakers don't interact well with the physical room he recommends using some room correction EQ.

Here's the latest Audioholics room treatment video. Very useful information if your planning on putting some acoustic room treatment to your room -

 
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Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
Room treatments are proven to make a room sound audibly better (sometimes much better) than without any if done right, it definitely isn't snake oil.
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that the opening post is inaccurate. I'd like to hear the systems they have at some point, but I don't expect to change my mind.
 

Kingchin

Active Member
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that the opening post is inaccurate. I'd like to hear the systems they have at some point, but I don't expect to change my mind.
I've never heard RoomPerfect though people do say good things about it. Plus it's the only one that doesn't change the tonality of the speakers. If I had a Dolby Atmos set up I probably would use a Lyngdorf processor if I could afford it. Keeping RoomPerfect on if it made a difference to my ears.

But I would still use room treatments as there beneficial improve the sound quality massively. I've spent about £1,500 on absorbers and diffusers for my basic 5.1 set up. Still waiting on most of them getting delivered but the ones I have hung up have improved the sound in my small room.
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
What I will say is RoomPerfect does not really require room treatment.

I disagree with this idea. Nulls and peaks are not going to be the same at each seating position, and you can't EQ one seat without affecting the others. And some rooms are so 'live' that no amount of EQ can make them anything other than awful listening environments. Sure it won't take much absorption (like a carpet and sofas) to tone down the room enough to allow room EQ to get you to a more acceptable solution, but IMO it's misleading to state the room treatment isn't needed or desired.
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
More than happy to arrange for a demonstration of systems running RoomPerfect in untreated rooms.

We carry out room treatment work for many professional and well known buildings and fully understand when and where it is required.
 

Kingchin

Active Member
What I will say is RoomPerfect does not really require room treatment.

Other EQ systems do require an element.
Hopefully I get to try RoomPerfect one day and maybe even use it along with room treatments. So basically RoomPerfect is cleverly manipulating the sound coming out of the speakers so it sounds similar to a good acoustically treated room. While also keeping the tonality of the speakers intact.

I've heard very few people who have used it in untreated rooms say it didn't improve the sound. So it probably does work quite well in untreated rooms. Helping improve the sound when you aren't in a position to acoustically treat the room.

PicsArt_03-21-06.35.28.jpg

PicsArt_03-21-06.36.07.jpg


I still personally think some some side wall, rear wall, ceiling absorption and diffusion would improve the sound even further on top of RoomPerfect on its own. If your able to treat your room.

As even the manipulated sound coming out of speakers using room correction will run into some of the same acoustic problems when they hit the walls, ceiling.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hopefully I get to try RoomPerfect one day and maybe even use it along with room treatments. So basically RoomPerfect is cleverly manipulating the sound coming out of the speakers so it sounds similar to a good acoustically treated room. While also keeping the tonality of the speakers intact.

I've heard very few people who have used it say it didn't improve the sound. So it probably does work quite well in untreated rooms. Helping improve the sound when you aren't in a position to acoustically treat the room.

View attachment 1480156
View attachment 1480158

I still personally think some some side wall, rear wall, ceiling absorption and diffusion would improve the sound even further on top of RoomPerfect on its own. If your able to treat your room.

As even the manipulated sound coming out of speakers using room correction will run into some of the same acoustic problems when they hit the walls, ceiling.

@mb3195 has fully treated dedicated room and he tried the Room Perfect, but it wasn´t any better than Audussey (Marantz AV8805).
 

Kingchin

Active Member
@mb3195 has fully treated dedicated room and he tried the Room Perfect, but it wasn´t any better than Audussey (Marantz AV8805).
Peter Lyngdorf quote from from his interview certainly doesn't sound like room treatments are snakeoil "One of the things that people don’t realize is, that if they buy the best speaker in the world and put it in their normal living room, that about 85% of the sound they hear is coming from the room. The speaker is 15% of the sound, the room 85%."

So he's basically saying getting the room right is the most important thing you can do. And if you can't do that the alternative is using room correction, preferably his RoomPerfect.

Most people can't do room treatments in their living room, some don't even put any in dedicated home cinema's. So room correction does have it's merit value for some people.
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
@mb3195 has fully treated dedicated room and he tried the Room Perfect, but it wasn´t any better than Audussey (Marantz AV8805).
That doesn't surprise me. It would have been interesting if he'd tried room perfect in a different room, which didn't have any treatment. I'd be amazed if it sounded as good as his cinema room (without room perfect).
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
All I can say is the offer is there to come and hear for yourselves.

We spent an afternoon with the legendary Adrian Munsey (film score composer) at our showrooms last week. He experienced several systems with RoomPerfect and suffice to say will be a future client of ours. He found the lack of room treatment intriguing and the audio reproduction astonishing.
 
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Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
All I can say is the offer is there to come and hear for yourselves.
Thank you

Until then you can only speculate........
No, that's not true. Many of us have experience of both room treatment and room EQ. I know the sort of thing room EQ can do, and can't do. I know it cannot fix a bad room (improve it, sure). My kitchen was an example of a room with awful sound (I've improved it). Just talking to someone in there was hard work. I could stand at the door, face away from the room and talk, and I just hear myself talking behind me. Having speakers boost/reduce certain frequencies can not fix it, particularly when there is more than one listening position.

Typical living room objects can absorb enough sound that good room EQ can then make the overall effect good enough, and in a room where you can't add room treatments, then decent EQ is your best bet (budget allowing). But I don't accept that decent room EQ can fix everything, nor match a well treated room with standard EQ.
 
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Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
But you haven’t heard RoomPerfect which is my point. RoomPerfect is different to all other RC systems.
We install systems using TEQ, ARC, Dirac, RoomPerfect etc.
What would you claim room perfect does so differently, that makes it work, when nothing else does?

Although I haven't heard room perfect, there are others who have, and whose opinion on the subject I trust, and they confirm that while it can be useful, it is still only science, not magic (which is what it would need to be in an untreated room).
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
No point in me making claims that will not be accepted. Come and listen for yourself on multiple systems in different rooms.
Then feel free to comment about the results.
We are also part of a specialist acoustics company that apply room treatment in professional venues from the Royal College of Music, West End Theatres, concert venues, recording studios, corporate headquarters, museums, art galleries, movie studios, film sets, BAFTA headquarters plus many more.

If we felt rooms with RoomPerfect being applied required treatment then we would do so.
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
No point in me making claims that will not be accepted.
It's science we're discussing, and if you could put forward a scientific argument for how room perfect negates the need for any room treatment, that could be looked at and analysed and discussed. But it's not scientifically possible for EQ to do everything.

Come and listen for yourself on multiple systems in different rooms.
Then feel free to comment about the results.
While a demo would be nice, we shouldn't have to travel the country for a demo in order to feel free to comment. I feel that the abilities of the equipment are being exaggerated for the purposes of profit, so I feel I should be able to say that on an AV forum.


If we felt rooms with RoomPerfect being applied required treatment then we would do so.
I'm sure you would, I'm not commenting on that or on your company, I'm just commenting on what I believe room perfect can/cannot do, and what room treatment can do.
 

bandyka

Member
Peter Lyngdorf quote from from his interview certainly doesn't sound like room treatments are snakeoil "One of the things that people don’t realize is, that if they buy the best speaker in the world and put it in their normal living room, that about 85% of the sound they hear is coming from the room. The speaker is 15% of the sound, the room 85%."

So he's basically saying getting the room right is the most important thing you can do. And if you can't do that the alternative is using room correction, preferably his RoomPerfect.

Most people can't do room treatments in their living room, some don't even put any in dedicated home cinema's. So room correction does have it's merit value for some people.
That exactly.
NO matter how clever the software, it just cannot defy the laws of phisycs. Having said, treat the room as best as you can and THEN apply room correction to correct the remainder of issues, this is when Room Perfect can shine and others will just make well treated room sound worse. Anthem's ARC certainly can't improve my room. I am planning on getting a Lyngdorf setup later this year so very curios if RP can actually make it sound better.

I've had fellow enthusiaasts in my room who could not believe their ears, their more expensive equipment was nowhere near the perfromance of mine, simply becuase they had treatment applied wrongly. I've been asked to sort out their room.
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
I built the UK's first 3 home cinema demonstration rooms with acoustic treatment 30 years ago including what I believe is still the most serious attempt at a no compromise room which you can read about here. Building The Perfect Cinema - Gecko Home Cinema

15 years someone demonstrated a far better sounding system than I had ever experienced in a very live room which turned everything I thought I knew about acoustics on its head.

I am in competition with 5 home cinema distributors within 120 miles of me, all of whom sell and recommend room treatment.

I recommend that anyone interested in buying a cinema goes and visits these showrooms and then comes and hears the systems here.

The systems here sound better and are in rooms with no acoustic treatment.

Anyone is very welcome to arrange a visit to put this to the test.
 

bandyka

Member
I built the UK's first 3 home cinema demonstration rooms with acoustic treatment 30 years ago including what I believe is still the most serious attempt at a no compromise room which you can read about here. Building The Perfect Cinema - Gecko Home Cinema

15 years someone demonstrated a far better sounding system than I had ever experienced in a very live room which turned everything I thought I knew about acoustics on its head.

I am in competition with 5 home cinema distributors within 120 miles of me, all of whom sell and recommend room treatment.

I recommend that anyone interested in buying a cinema goes and visits these showrooms and then comes and hears the systems here.

The systems here sound better and are in rooms with no acoustic treatment.

Anyone is very welcome to arrange a visit to put this to the test.
Very interested to hear some of these. I also will say that while I never use room correction for obvious reasons the only one time I heard room correction I liked was in a room with a Lyngdorf setup. So I am looking forward to expereince the difference. My main gripe with systems is that they alter the way my speakers sound, taking away dynamics.

The only issue with testing in showrooms is that you have no reference point. One must listen in their own room that they know well.
 

larkone

Member
Very interested to hear some of these. I also will say that while I never use room correction for obvious reasons the only one time I heard room correction I liked was in a room with a Lyngdorf setup. So I am looking forward to expereince the difference. My main gripe with systems is that they alter the way my speakers sound, taking away dynamics.

The only issue with testing in showrooms is that you have no reference point. One must listen in their own room that they know well.
As an owner of two lyngdorf amps I can say that RP does not destroy the dynamics of my speakers.

Get a home demo - plenty of the dealers on here will offer that.
 

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