Room recommendations

Hear Here

Active Member
Yes, sorry analog inputs. But we’re exactly is the transformer located inside of the M33? The black box? I suspect the print board to the right side of the unit is the wifiboard/Dac.
That's a very odd question. What do you mean by "transformer" and what's the relevence of where it's placed inside the case?

The only transformer that amps always include is the one that transforms the mains supply (110 or 220 volts) to the voltage required for the electronics. Does it matter where it's located as long as it doesn't adversely affect the signal?
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
That's a very odd question. What do you mean by "transformer" and what's the relevence of where it's placed inside the case?

The only transformer that amps always include is the one that transforms the mains supply (110 or 220 volts) to the voltage required for the electronics. Does it matter where it's located as long as it doesn't adversely affect the signal?
Of course not! By transformer I mean exactly what you’re stating in your own reply. In my amplifier the transformer is located at the left side. Round designed transformer. I’m only intrigued why NAD is not using the traditional round transformer. Nothing else. Not my intention to start world war 3 just because an “odd question”.
 

Hear Here

Active Member
Of course not! By transformer I mean exactly what you’re stating in your own reply. In my amplifier the transformer is located at the left side. Round designed transformer. I’m only intrigued why NAD is not using the traditional round transformer. Nothing else. Not my intention to start world war 3 just because an “odd question”.
Sorry, wasn't meaning to be confrontational but confused by why the location of the transformer is relevant. Also I thought you may have been describing the DAC or ADC as a transformer - which they are in that they transform digital to analogue or vice versa!

I've never looked inside my M33 but I guess there are photos in reviews or Google Images. As long as the transformer does its job of transforming the incoming voltage to that required by the electronics without adversely affecting the signal, I don't really mind where it’s located, or its shape or type. Perhaps Class D amps are not as fussy as valve amps for example, or maybe (certainly) they require a very small current so a big toroidal transformer may not be required.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Of course not! By transformer I mean exactly what you’re stating in your own reply. In my amplifier the transformer is located at the left side. Round designed transformer. I’m only intrigued why NAD is not using the traditional round transformer. Nothing else. Not my intention to start world war 3 just because an “odd question”.

I think you’ll find he’s a bit touchy... 🤷‍♀️
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Well, if I’m going to a buy Class D amplifier in the future I guess it we’ll be Lyngdorf. After googling the NAD M33 many report firmware problems with it! For that kind of cash I expected it to be perfect. In meantime I hope Marantz, Denon well licensee Dirac included in their stereo amplifiers. But that probably we’ll take ages since they have their own room correction software, but only included in the AV receiver amplifier series. But I need to hear Class D amplifiers on the correct kind of speakers to make up mind... Regarding the M33 I’ll take refuge in my bunker in the mean time. I bet someone we’ll get angry @Paul7777x, I’m glad he apologized. And I too probably went overboard also. So I apologize also. But when @Hear Here starts the reply by saying what do you mean with “transformer”... I can’t help think he means the transformers movie😂😂.
 

Hear Here

Active Member
Well, if I’m going to a buy Class D amplifier in the future I guess it we’ll be Lyngdorf. After googling the NAD M33 many report firmware problems with it! For that kind of cash I expected it to be perfect. In meantime I hope Marantz, Denon well licensee Dirac included in their stereo amplifiers. But that probably we’ll take ages since they have their own room correction software, but only included in the AV receiver amplifier series. But I need to hear Class D amplifiers on the correct kind of speakers to make up mind... Regarding the M33 I’ll take refuge in my bunker in the mean time. I bet someone we’ll get angry @Paul7777x, I’m glad he apologized. And I too probably went overboard also. So I apologize also. But when @Hear Here starts the reply by saying what do you mean with “transformer”... I can’t help think he means the transformers movie😂😂.
Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 vs NAD M33

In my quest for an amp for my Avantgarde speakers I home demo'd a dozen amps including the Lyngdorf but eventually went for the NAD M32, later changed for the even better M33.

Yes, it's true there were teething problems with the M33 but remember this product's launch coincided with the Covid outbreak. Units were in short supply and even NAD Customer Service staff didn't have access to them as most were working from home. I presume this extended to their technical guys too. To be fair, they responded quickly to these problems (I suffered 2 but there was at least one other that didn't affect my unit) and fixes were quickly put in place. These included a new firmware upgrade, a downloadable bit of software and a replacement PCB for a few 240 volt owners where physical noise was present from a duff component. Granted more Beta testing may have resolved these problems before release, but I guess there was pressure to get this long-awaited unit out to dealers and users. Since these fixes, I've had no further problems with the M33 - it's a truly great box of tricks and remarkable value.

Regarding the units, what I didn't like about the Lyngdorf was the grotty front panel display and the shortage of useful things that it can be used for. It looks more like a dot-matrix printer display than the high definition TV that the NAD offers.

The BluOS app user interface is much easier than Lyngforf's and I found RoomPerfect to suck out so much life from the music, it was unlistenable to - but possibly the mic was more to blame than the software, or my incompetent efforts to take good readings! Either way, I was please to return it after 10 days or so. It sounded pretty good though, but not better than the M32 and therefore probably less good than the M33.

I suggest you consider getting both units on home demo. Your speakers may respond better to one than the other.
 

3rdignis

Active Member
I treated my room because it is echoey, 4/6 surfaces concrete, although my room eq makes a bigger difference.
 

3rdignis

Active Member
I use these panels.
I use tack nails in walls and make small cut to back of panel.
For ceiling I use strong stick Velcro, allowing 24hrs for strip to cure to ceiling.

The panels are always commented on by visitors :)
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
I use these panels.
I use tack nails in walls and make small cut to back of panel.
For ceiling I use strong stick Velcro, allowing 24hrs for strip to cure to ceiling.

The panels are always commented on by visitors :)
Interesting. But do you use rew or similar to get the right mathematical conclusion to make sure you place the panels correct on the walls? If you don’t use them do you notice the sound just fall apart? And don’t you use antimode eq also. Been thinking about setting up some panels in my room, but I’m really confused if I need to measure my room dimensions using Rew?
 

3rdignis

Active Member
Room eq was implemented first and makes the most difference.

I don't have rew, I tuned room midrange and treble by ear.

I used small amount of panels first as I was tentative, unsure if they were doing anything. After a few months I removed panels to great degredation (possibly imagined)
So I placed more panels 25% surface of ceiling, 25% of close rear wall 1 panel behind each speaker and 1 on side walls.

The effect is a more focused imaging, greater height and depth within the room.

.
 

3rdignis

Active Member
I use panels to tune the room as I use the curtain along one wall or sofa or rug.

I got to a point where I over dampened the room so I removed the large rug.
 

3rdignis

Active Member
I think a full range eq (which I don't have) will correct a bright or dull room, but it will not correct a bad echo (which most people won't have) my room has 4/6 surfaces concrete.
 

3rdignis

Active Member
You can be exact and use rew, although in time you will become acustomed anyway.

So if you are used to your room but it sounds a little ecoey room treatment may be of use.
 

Hear Here

Active Member
Room eq was implemented first and makes the most difference.

I don't have rew, I tuned room midrange and treble by ear.

I used small amount of panels first as I was tentative, unsure if they were doing anything. After a few months I removed panels to great degredation (possibly imagined)
So I placed more panels 25% surface of ceiling, 25% of close rear wall 1 panel behind each speaker and 1 on side walls.

The effect is a more focused imaging, greater height and depth within the room.

.
I totally agree that room treatment (preferably using regular furnishings) is the first thing to do - no, second after carefully positioing speakers - and those panels appear reasonably acceptable aesthetically. Did you find that 12 panels overdid things in your room? My own room has so few areas where panels could be fitted (though it's a huge 945 sq ft room) that I'd probably only be able to find walls for about 4 panels of the size mentioned. Are they well made and easy to fix and are they heavy? I may try buying 4 panels only. My ceiling is already low but it's suspended plasterboard with sunken light fittings so probably not ideal for those panels. Thanks.
 

Kingchin

Active Member
But do you use rew or similar to get the right mathematical conclusion to make sure you place the panels correct on the walls?
You're unnecessary way over complicating and over thinking things, all you need is simply a friend and a mirror to find the reflection points on the side walls. And the ceiling if you plan to place panels on it. The rear wall you don't even need any help, absorbtion or diffusion panels (or both) directly on the wall behind your main listening position.

Plus make sure you buy use good quality panels. If you buy ones without any specs absorption rate, scattering rate from the manufacturer it usually is a poor performing product. The good ones from reputable companies will have detailed information about the panels, and be used by some music studios.

If you don't trust your ears for validation then take measurements before of the untreated room. Then measurements afterwards with the acoustic panels hung up.
 
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Kingchin

Active Member
I treated my room because it is echoey, 4/6 surfaces concrete, although my room eq makes a bigger difference.
I'm guessing your room also has wooden flooring? My cousins room has real wood floors and I notice some flutter echo in it. But even a room that isn't echoey, room treatments will have other benefits. Including bring down the reverb time greatly, and enhancing the mids and highs.
 
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3rdignis

Active Member
Yep wood laminate over tiles and concrete.

Regarding rt60 etc. if you know what your doing you don't need advise from me.

If your not completely confident, follow advise but trust your ears.
 

Kingchin

Active Member
Yep wood laminate over tiles and concrete.

Regarding rt60 etc. if you know what your doing you don't need advise from me.

If your not completely confident, follow advise but trust your ears.
My room is actually tiles over concrete too, but with underlay and carpet instead over it.

Yes I know what I'm doing thanks. And if I come across a problem I don't have the knowledge of I seek help from those with experience.

You said visitors often comment on the panels. Do you have pictures of your living room with the absorbers up? My absorbers and diffusers (most still to get delivered) are completely different looking to the plain style Mafia panels you use. and my room decor is likely very different too.

But always nice seeing other people's different set ups.
 
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Hear Here

Active Member
My room is actually tiles over concrete too, but with underlay and carpet instead over it.

Yes I know what I'm doing thanks. And if I come across a problem I don't have the knowledge of I seek help from those with experience.

You said visitors often comment on the panels. Do you have pictures of your room with the absorbers up? My absorbers and diffusers (most still to get delivered) are completely different looking to your Mafia panels and probably my room decor too. But always nice seeing other people's set ups.
The damning feature of room correction panels is if your friends comment on them. This means they are shouting out for attention - not something you want to encourage in a living room. For me, any panels must be of a design that makes them effectively invisible, or at least so inconspicuous that no one notices them.

Any suggestions, as I have no room correction at present apart from careful choice of floor covering and furniture? It’s a tricky room to find places to install them though as most vertical surfaces are glass or mirror. The angled column behind the sofa and the fronts of the AC enclosures are really the only places
 

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larkone

Distinguished Member
@Hear Here Isn't the point of panels that they are placed accurately to fix a specific reflection or room mode, not trying to fit them in where you have space which is why they work in studios but are wholly unsuited to a living room unless you want it to look like a studio that is.
 

Hear Here

Active Member
@Hear Here Isn't the point of panels that they are placed accurately to fix a specific reflection or room mode, not trying to fit them in where you have space which is why they work in studios but are wholly unsuited to a living room unless you want it to look like a studio that is.
To an extent you, I'd agree with you. If acoustics are good without them, don't install them. However I know my room can be further improved and am inviting suggestions. Earlier it was stated that the wall behind the listening chair is a no-argument place to locate panels and I can do something there, although it's an angled surface and quite limited in available area. Those who know about room correction may be able to offer suggestions. As you know, I am strongly of the opinion that DSP is the last resort and if I can add a few descrete panels that improved my room, I will do just that.
 

Kingchin

Active Member
trying to fit them in where you have space which is why they work in studios but are wholly unsuited to a living room unless you want it to look like a studio that is.
Forgetting the dedicated rooms with the panels discreetly hidden behind the walls with luxurious acoustically transparent fabric coverings. There has been a few examples by members on Avforums using acoustic panels on normal walls in their living rooms. That actually look very nice, not like a music studio.

One I recall was of someone who used four DIY absorption panels all different sizes and different coloured acoustically transparent fabrics. On the back wall between the rear surround speakers, it looked stunning. Plus blended seamlessly with the rest of the living room decor. It's no different than hanging art pictures, clocks, photo frames, floating shelves, mirrors on the walls. Choose the right ones that go with the room decor and it will look good.

And my panels you have only seen one panel in a couple of close up pictures, you haven't seen the full room end result. I'm using lot's of different looking custom absorber/diffusers and diffusers. Some that look just like unique wooden art pieces. It is possible to use acoustic panels in living rooms and make it look nice if you have the creativity to pull it off. As well as being willing to pay a bit extra for them.
 
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