Roksan Kandy K2 CDP

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by tazzo, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. tazzo

    tazzo
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    I just bought this CD player for a cheap price, but it does not sound very much different to my Cambridge Azur 640C V2 which is surprising given its review's.

    Does this CDP need run in very much? I am using it with a Yamaha A-S500 amplifier.

    How would you describe its sound?

    Also I am using Mission Elan 34 speakers is this a good combination?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  2. scorpion88

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    Not had any personal experience with the equipment you mention although I do have the CA v2 amplifier- however I have found that in general terms decent CDP's//DVD's combined with decent amps and speakers can sound very similar.

    The important issue is does it sound good to your ears?

    All the equipment you mention as far as I can tell from reviews has a decent reputation.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  3. coruja

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    Well, the CA 640C was/is considered a very nice CDP and it may match the K2 in sound and performance.

    Then again, you have upgraded your CDP with valves so even if it was not a match to the K2 before, it may be now?
     
  4. scorpion88

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    Hi Coruja, I missed this but well spotted as usual:)
     
  5. tazzo

    tazzo
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    The valves did not seem to make much of a difference apart from make it louder and a bit shinier.

    I have the Roksan, so I will give it a few weeks to see how it goes.
     
  6. scorpion88

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    'Shiny Happy People':D
     
  7. coruja

    coruja
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    That is the exact opposite of why people decide to go for tubes, for a more rounded and softer sound. That's a shame.

    Anyway, try the Roksan for a while (at least two weeks) and then go back to the CA 640C and see if there is a difference and if there is which difference you prefer.

    If you still don't see any significant improvement, and as it looks to me that you are looking for a change in sound, I suggest you sell on the Roksan (you might even make a profit as you got it cheap) and possibly audition other CDPs in the same price range as the Roksan.

    I also think you need to check the sound of the CDPs you have with another amplifier because you may have reached the limit of what your current amp can do with higher spec kit like the Roksan OR it is simply not matching well.
     
  8. scorpion88

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    I would suggest the HK 980/990 as the CDP's of choice:)
     
  9. tazzo

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    Yea, I'm planniing on doing what you are saying Coruja, but can't really afford a better specced amp.

    I will wait a couple of weeks, and if the sound is not MUCH better than I am hoping, then I will probably sell it on and maybe add a DAC to my current set up, probably the audiolab M-DAC or Rega DAC.

    Would adding the DAC to my current amp (Yamaha A-S500) make a bigger difference with using the Cambridge as a transport?
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  10. daytona600

    daytona600
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    i need a new girlfriend what would you suggest a HK980/990

    you recommend this no matter what the question
    is it not just a big AV amp that has no place in the hifi section
     
  11. Doomlord_uk

    Doomlord_uk
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    Harmon Kardon make a CDP called - somewhat confusingly I admit - the HK 990. Same name as the amp. They are designed to work together, but the 990 CDP has a good reputation on its own.

    Regarding the OP, I'm not surprised that two CDPs sound the same - they really ought to, IMO!
     
  12. tazzo

    tazzo
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    Why do you say that? The Roksan has many awards as did the Azur 640C, there is the obvious big price difference, which I assumed would be because of a much better CD player.
     
  13. scorpion88

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    Because he likes to be confrontational and 'loose' in his choice of language - also very trenchant in his blinkered views as demonstrated in previous threads!

    Would lot be missed if he was banned from this forum. This person is not the sharpest knife in the box.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  14. coruja

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    I hope we can keep things a little less heated an I'm not talking about the valves! :)

    Roksan is designed and made in UK. Cambridge Audio is designed in the UK but built in China - the price differences can be from this, at least at a starting point.

    (You can get anything made/built in China of any quality - so the cheapest stuff the people dismiss as cheap Chinese tat to high end Hi Fi. They do the full range but of course relatively cheaper)

    I don't know much about the K2 CDP but the CA640 C is a wonderfully built machine as well a nice sounding one.

    There is this maniac called the Lampizator (Lukasz Fikus) that has a full review of the reasons why this is such a good CDP (He doesn't do this any more, he is purely concerned with digital now): Cambridge Audio Azur 640C ALmpizator

    CA is underrated/dismissed on the whole because it is Richer Sounds 'house brand' and it is made in China &etc - but they consistently make brilliant bits of kit at bargain prices.

    So it is quite possible for the CA640C to stand up to a more expensive CDP because component quality &etc might be the same.

    (In fact, I am pretty sure the Wolfson DAC(s) in the 640C and the PCM1730E DAC in the K2 are both made in China)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  15. scorpion88

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    As usual mate you speak good sense. I was also not talking about the valves:D
     
  16. BlueWizard

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    First, CD Players are not like speakers, the difference between them is going to be subtle. The Cambridge Player is pretty good, and the price difference, as has been point out, might be due to the Roksan being made in the UK rather than China.

    But again, I would submit it will take some long and careful listening to hear and understand the subtleties of each CD Player. So, as has been suggested give it some time.

    Many people expect more when they pay more, usually more bass, or more volume, or more something, but the thing they get, and a thing that is very subtle among good players is more clarity, but more clarity is hard to quantify especially on a quick listen of already good CD Players.

    In speakers, the difference, I think, would be more noticeable, but from my own experience with speaker, really good really clear speakers can initially sound empty. When I first heard Focal 800 series, the bass was so crystal clear that I thought I wasn't hearing any bass. Then I realized I could feel the bass slamming into my body. Once I adjusted my mindset, I became clearer what I was listening to, and I had a greater appreciation for the speakers.

    So, my point is, among already good CD Players, you would really need to make a study of it to understand the subtle differences between them.

    Also, keep in mind for every product that a group of people love, and equal group of people will hate. There is no accounting for personal taste and preferences. Perhaps the Roksan is just not to your taste, but as others have said, give it some time. If it really bothers, you find a way to compare the Cambridge to the Roksan side-by-side. By a second copy of a CD, put one in each player, then switch between them listening carefully for the difference. Again, the difference is likely to be subtle.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  17. Doomlord_uk

    Doomlord_uk
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    Because a) CDPs are doing a job that is, in engineering/scientific terms pretty simple and which is very much a 'solved problem', b) because the small differences that do exist are, or should be, out of band and therefore inaudible, c) distortions introduced by speakers and the room positively dwarf those (miniscule as they may be) introduced by electronic components.

    Secondly, I don't give a flying monkey's about awards and reviews because the hifi press is, in my opinion, utterly corrupt and disinterested in reporting the truth. In any case, what do you care? Their reports *might* be the basis of forming a useful shortlist but if you really want to know about audible differences you need to listen carefully to each, and by 'carefully' I mean using double-blind testing.

    In the meantime, if anyone know of any double-blind tests that showed audible differences between CDPs I'd like to hear about them. Note that to date no credible evidence exists for audible differences between power amplifiers, which have a much more difficult job to do than CD players do.

    Expensive hifi is like expensive watches - they all do the same job, it just depends how you like it to look and how exclusive you want yours to be. I'm fine dropping £10k on a watch (in principle, I don't have that kind of money to blow right now lol) but I would never buy a £10k watch, an IWC for instance, because I thought it told the time better. Likewise I'd be delighted to have a brace of Chord SPM9000 monoblocks but I wouldnt justify it on audible grounds, that's all.

    You will find your own reasons to justify the money you spend, but if your goal is just getting the job done, you can do that extremely well indeed for very little money these days. The rest of your money is better spent on music, not the equipment to play it.

    Or hookers and blow. :devil:
     
  18. Doomlord_uk

    Doomlord_uk
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    I would be staggered if anyone on planet earth could distinguish different DAC ICs by ear.
     
  19. scorpion88

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    I suggest you invest in an Alba from Gumtree:D You are totally misguided I notice you believe that all amplifiers sound the same.

    Does that follow that all speakers sound the same you imbecile.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  20. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Easy boys, let's not start a war.

    While certainly DoomLord-UK has some controversial opinions, I suspect they are do more to enthusiasm then raw data. But on the broader principle, he is right, the difference between various electronic components (CD, Amp, etc...) is much more subtle than the difference between mechanical devices like Speakers.

    As to whether anyone can hear that difference depends on both the person's willingness and ability to hear. Paralleling the phrase, there are none so blind as those who will not see, equally you can not hear what you will not hear. One must be open to the subtleties of life to recognize them. One could fairly say that all roses look the same. But to the subtle mind, it is not that hard to distinguish between a common rose and a near perfect rose.

    If we assume a minimum standard in equipment, the differences are even more subtle. Which is pretty much what I said. It will take some very careful and deep listening to hear the differences between these CD Players, and most certainly a side-by-side comparison over time will be best for bringing out those differences.

    Ask yourself this, what is the more that you expected to hear from the more expensive CD Player? Again, clarity is a very hard thing to quantify, but when you listen long and hard, you will hear it if it is there.

    Also keep in mind, that some people don't like clarity. Though usually young party-hardy teenagers. They prefer the over-amped droning-bass of cheap loud equipment.

    It is possible that you will find the Roksan not to your liking because it sounds too good. Personal preference and desire will override specification every time, and personal desire is always right as it satisfies the real need of the individual.

    But I would also caution people, and this is just my opinion, not to speak in absolutes. When you state that THIS is an absolute fact, chances are you are wrong in your absoluteness. This tends to reflect fanaticism rather than rational thought.

    Again, while I feel over stated, at its core, DoomLord_UK does have a point.

    In my opinion.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  21. steveledzep

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    I can contribute to this thread from experience. I had a CA640C for about 4 years. I bought it without audition when my wife persuaded me to get a more lifestyle looking system as I wasn't playing my TT much and the kit was taking up a lot of room. Worst thing I ever did. Couldn't stand the sound of the thing, it constantly shouted at me. I tamed it to a degree with Goldenjacks attenuators but still couldn't listen for any length of time. This was through an Audiolab 8000A and Castle Avons, not everyone's cup of tea, but quality kit nonetheless.

    I reinstated a TT to my set up and hardly listened to cds. A harsh sound compared to vinyl.

    Changed amp to MF A3.2 and speakers to Quad 22L2s. Wow, what an improvement !! Still didn't get on with the CA640C.

    Six months ago I changed the cdp to a Roksan K2 cdp. What a breath of fresh air !!! No attenuators required, lovely unfatiguing sound at both high and low volumes. There is a caveat, this only applies to some cds as the production and mix on most is very poor to say the least.

    Doomlord, if you reply saying they all sound the same, I'll refer you to an audiologist !!! Theory is one thing, practise is another. I know what I'm hearing and I know what I can listen to for extended periods. The K2 is hardly switched off, except when I'm playing vinyl which is better again !!!
     
  22. tazzo

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    Thanks for all the input guys, I will take all points on board, and yes the more I listen to the Roksan the more I seem to like the percieved change in sound I am hearing.
     
  23. MI55ION

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    In all honesty Steve sometimes you lose me with the sheer volume of info in your posts.

    But that there is brilliant mate, deserves to be a sticky!
     
  24. coruja

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    Yes, that one is a distilled drop of sane, pragmatic and humane wisdom. :thumbsup:
     
  25. recruit

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    You really are starting to push your luck again Mr Doomlord with your attitude, tone it down please.
     
  26. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk
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    Spot on Doomlord. :thumbsup:

    Good to see you ignore the personal attacks!

    Remember everyone - attack the subject and not the person. It's in the forum rules.

    One more thing to consider when looking at price differences between components is economies of scale. Supply and demand and all that.
     
  27. recruit

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    And your just as bad Mr Tone, I'll let this one fly for the time being but please just be nice when posting.

    Thanks.
     
  28. Tone-uk

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    No worries. I don't know what I'm "just as bad" at though!! If it's not going along with golden ears /subjectivists opinions then guilty as charged! But I don't think it's an issue to disagree with someone and have strong opinions. Arguments are ok, personal attacks are not imo. Look at this thread - "imbecile" has been used to attack someone. I don't think thats ok but, your the mod and if you thinks it's ok then I'll disagree but respect your opinion.
     

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