Road Tax doesn't exist.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by raduv1, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. raduv1

    raduv1
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    This is a rant nothing more . So what do you call it car tax or road tax as I always believed I played road tax for the upkeep and repair of the infrastructure of our roads and motorways throughout the UK . But it seems we now pay car tax based on co2 emissions and not dependent on road usage AND THIS IS WRONG. Car/road tax should be abolished and this tax put on petrol/desiel consumption. How can the tax payer be charged for co2 emissions when our roads are so poor . The stretch of moterway I drive on has pot holes in the slow lane ( eight months and counting ) and it must be the gas guzzlers 4x4s causing it right . Pay for what you use and a small car doing 60k will do more damage than a hunk doing 10k a year . Put the tax o Petrol and smaller efficient cars would be the norm and everyone would be on a level playing field . We have moaned about electricity,gas water supplies prices for years and the government is on the bandwagon for votes . And yet this is one bill we all pay that is not based on usage but nothing is said . Pay for what you use tax the petrol/desiel and not the car.

    a few friend's have gone the classic route high emissions no tax at all V8 and no expenses or fancy electrics might be the way to go as only rust control matters.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  2. eob

    eob
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    I disagree with your rant.
    I think you will find that HGVs do most of the damage in the slow lane.
    I'll make an assumption that you purchase goods at the supermarket? Are you willing to pay more for your bread etc so that the hauliers can pay for the upkeep of our roads?
    And how can it be that levying the tax on fuel instead will make it fairer and level the playing field?
    So because I don't work where I live and have to commute to a place where there are no public transport links, I should pay more in order to work? Surely then it would become uneconomical for me to bother working and would be better off relying on the state?
    There are no jobs where I live, and I cannot afford to move to where I work.

    Maybe we should tax classic cars instead eh? Surely they do more damage to the roads/environment than newer, more efficient cars?
    Food for thought.
     
  3. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
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    Oh good another rant but in accurate in many ways...If only actual usage wasn't already 'taxed', it would be lovely...
     
  4. mjn

    mjn
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    It ain't been Road Tax since 193-something. :laugh:

    But yes, it should axed, and the tax put on petrol/diesel.
     
  5. mjn

    mjn
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    Classic cars are usually only driven at weekends, when the weather is nice and only a few miles. In total i reckon a classic car does less than 1000 a year.

    Pfffffft, i do 1200 miles a month, plus 2000 miles in the summer going to the South Of France, plus any other roadtrips. Germany is moving to road tolls for foreign drivers, France has tolls on the motorway, and Switzerland has a motorway "pass".
     
  6. bumpymark

    bumpymark
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    plus theres no such thing as a slow lane on the motorways either! we drive on the left in the uk but due to poor lane discipline many drivers seem to think its ok to hog the middle and outer lanes!
     
  7. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
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    Actually it is called tax again ;) And there is already tax and duty on petrol/diesel and more and more roads...There is plenty of money, just needs to be used wisely
     
  8. eob

    eob
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    Maybe there should be a tax on recreational weekend use of highways and byways. ;)
     
  9. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
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    Why do you are all want more taxes :( I just don't get it...
     
  10. mjn

    mjn
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    We don't, but believing the Government will axe VED is pointless, because they won't. When was the last time the Government axed any tax, without introducing a replacement?
     
  11. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
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    @mjn I'm not believing that at all, but likewise I'm also not believing that if there is a change to it like in an increase on fuel, or the road charging scheme, it will work out any more transparent nor cheaper for anyone...

    The government doesn't refer to it as excise duties any longer, it is now just a tax...Although considering it is charge on a commodity I do think the former terminology is more accurate.
     
  12. mjn

    mjn
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    It would be cheaper for some; who is more polluting?

    Bloke A in his 1995 5L V8 driving on Sunday mornings, doing 1000 miles a year or Bloke B in his 2014 2L eco-diesel rep-mobile doing 50k miles a year?

    According to the VED, the V8 is more polluting.
     
  13. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
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    you are taking it into isolation. Actually your continued use of VED is helpful in separating the difference. The VED is the charge on the commodity, the fuel duty, and vat associated with it ,on the use ;)
     
  14. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
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    Further more the 1995 V8 is only £225...Policy has changed since then and today it would be £840 in the first year, followed by £475 there after....

    The same diesel would now by £0 in first year and £105 there after...Whilst in 1995 and one from 1995 it would have been £225 as well...
     
  15. mjn

    mjn
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    But it's not fair, as somebody doing 20k miles a year (somebody like me) pays the same amount of VED as somebody doing 3k miles a year (Grandma doing the shopping and Church once a week). Assuming we have cars in the same tax bracket :smashin:

    I was just picking those as examples, to prove that the VED isn't fair. And the fact VED is £840 in the first year and £475 in the 2nd proves it. Does the car become less polluting as its gets older? VED is based on emissions, so if the VED is lower, then the emissions on the vehicle must be lower?
     
  16. True Romance

    True Romance
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    Are there no new cars that are ved exempt anymore after the first year?
     
  17. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    Road tax doesn't fund roads in the same way a tax on whisky doesn't fund distillery's.
     
  18. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
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    Grandma has a choice ;) plenty of £0 road tax vehicles available. I just got rid of ours for the opposite scale of the spectrum.

    And perhaps currently the first year is higher as an attempt to discourage buying new highly polluting vehicles. Yep I had to pay the £840 for this year, my choice. Next year it will be less.

    You still seem to be confusing usage with ownership, unfortunately unfair taxes happen everywhere. Heck council tax is the unfairness of the all. Why did I pay the same in my family of two as the neighbours next door in their family of six.

    Tax is unfair period. All that tinkering does is shift the unfairness to another group.
     
  19. nheather

    nheather
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    Disagree I'm afraid.

    First of all, the fact that the tax collected from motoring does not all go into roads is very old news - I'm not sure it ever has been. It is just an income stream into general coffers of UK Ltd. and is used to pay for public services in general. To the best of my knowledge it has always been like that.

    Road Fund Licence used to be the same for all but is now dependent on CO2 emissions. This is to encourage us to move to more efficient cars to make the environment nicer to live in and make our limited fuel reserves last longer.

    We are taxed based on how much we travel. The cost of a litre of diesel is roughly broken down as follows

    Duty - 58p
    VAT - 23p
    Product - 52p
    Retailer - 5p
    Total - 138p

    So 63p out of 138p is tax (46%)

    So every litre of fuel we consume we pay 63p tax. So the more miles you do, the more litres you consume, the more you get taxed.

    So in short you are taxed the more you use your car.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  20. Desmo

    Desmo
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    Well at the least the thread title is accurate :)
     
  21. blue max

    blue max
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    If they want to reduce emissions, why put speed bumps in which cause drivers to brake and accelerate over lengthy stretches of the highway? This is a direct cause of pollution and is surely wrong. Plus I had to replace the back end of my exhaust over Christmas. And as it was a one piece system, I had to replace it all. So add that to the direct ecological cost (and the rest was in good order, it was a clean break).
    It's a tax, pure and simple. Might as well call it motorists punishment.
     
  22. nheather

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    Hardly the highway. I've only seen them in residential areas where the concern is about hitting pedestrians, particularly children.

    I guess they figure a child's life is worth a few grammes of CO2.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  23. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    Let's hope an ambulance never gets slowed down by them then.
     
  24. namuk

    namuk
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    that's the only time change happens
     
  25. blue max

    blue max
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    One is a certainty and one is a possibility. The added CO2 will inevitably harm kids walking to school. I do a low mileage and my few grammes of CO2 are seemingly very expensive. I'd venture to say a pelican crossing is much safer than a regular zebra crossing, but this is not done in many cases. The only way to guarantee children won't get run over is to ban cars from around schools. The strategy of letting our roads decay is working just fine already.
     
  26. mikeburns

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    Annoyingly they put the VAT on after the fuel duty, so you're paying tax on tax.
     
  27. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    It is, and of course using the money to pay for the fuel has also been taxed already.

    Yet some in this thread would like to see even more tax? Weird very weird.
     
  28. nheather

    nheather
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    Agreed, and of course there is income tax on national insurance.

    I guess the problem is that if they didn't do that then the coffers would be short and they would need to make cuts to services or increase taxes elsewhere to compensate.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  29. liamt

    liamt
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    what i find annoying is the constant roadworks, if you keep making me slow down, stop, speed up, stop etc etc im using A LOT more petrol. my commute to work every morning now take another 5 mins each way to cross 1 specific roundabout as they have added metal barriers stopping us seeing traffic from other directions, i guess to help the other roads. this alone will cost me a fair chunk over a year as im basically sat hardly moving for 5 mins, twice a day.

    we also had a stretch on the bypass (i live in lincoln, enemy of the car and logical road management). it wasnt even a mile long where they dual carriagewayed it. this took 18 months. how the hell can it take that long? 20 mins was added to each trip. how much petrol was wasted by this?

    i guess our answers come from that the idiot in charge of lincoln's roads lived in cambridge. so he doesnt have to suffer whatever nonsensical decisions are made.

    3 years ago i was in kenya and most of the roads bar those on reserves were better than what i drive on daily. in my village the roads look like patchwork quilt as they havent been resurfaced for decades, along with nice potholes i feel like im in the back of beyond, not 3 miles from the county capital.

    having said that i also think you should be refunded the tax on fuel for getting to work. i pay £160 a month in petrol to get to and from work. why should the gov make £100 out of me for just getting to work?!? its not like there is a viable public transport alternative, busses around here often dont even turn up.

    also, those of us who cannot afford a nice new BMW with efficient engine are getting screwed on emissions and higher VED. my 1.6 engine has more emissions than a big 4x4 :(
     
  30. liamt

    liamt
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    or just learn how to use the money effectively. but that is another, much broader, issue of governments being, in general, quite useless.
     

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