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Ripping & Joining DVDs to the Hard Disc?

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by esta56, Jul 6, 2004.

  1. esta56

    esta56
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    I'm sure that this subject has been done to death all over the internet BUT....

    ....as time goes by, software changes and makes tasks easier than previous, so maybe things can be done now that couldn't previously BUT....

    ....I can't find any 'How To' guides that I understand (they seem to assume you automatically know DVD File structure and the meanings of 'IFO mode', 'Virtual Drive' or 'Mounting' etc. etc.). I don't!

    I already use DVDShrink to rip just the film to my Hard Disk, with no compression, using the PC as a film Jukebox. DVDShrink makes it all simple without having to have any technical understanding. I have no interest in recording to a 4.7Gb Disc, which what most of the guides, I have read, assume you want to do.

    All the films I've put onto the Hard Disk to date are single Discs (DVD5 or DVD9) BUT what I would dearly love to do is now:

    1) Where a film is on two Discs (Pearl Harbour, LOTR) I want to be able to have it as a single, seamless, non-compressed film on my HD.

    2) If I can achieve 1) above I would then love to be able to take related films and join them into one huge seamless film. The obvious candidate for this would be the LOTR trilogy (extended version of course). So, in the case of LOTR, I would want the films joined without the credits (at the beginning or end) and if needed, a short fade between them to avoid a jump. Working chapters as well (even if that's over 80)!

    So are 1) & 2) doable? 1) would be the easiest to do I assume but imagine also an 11 hour LOTR :eek: . Any ideas, guides or links to guides?
     
  2. CodeThief

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    I too would be interested in this, as a friend and I are going to "do" the LOTR trilogy when the 3rd extended edition comes out :D

    Dave
     
  3. andy572

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    I've only dabbled with this a couple of times since I built my present PC. I can't yet give the definitive answer, but I have a recollection (perhaps incorrect!) that at least one piece of software that I used included the ability to set an 'in' and 'out' point i.e. start and stop points. However, your list of possibilities is probably more within the realms of editing - and that could be both complicated and time-consuming.

    With all of that in mind and assuming your software has such a feature, have you considered setting up 'playlists'?

    You could transfer the data to the hard drive and save playlists for each of your multi-disc films. I have just wiped my drive of DVD files and so, can't check that it will work for ripped files; but (for example) PowerDVD includes this ability and can deal with the .VOB files from a DVD rip/conversion. Some assumption and hope therefore suggests that it may be possible to include these .VOB files within a playlist. I can't remember if I've done that with .VOB files, but I'm always hopeful... :D

    Hope that helps :)
     
  4. Harry T

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    You can use DVD Shrink.

    Use the reauthor function. ddlooping (who posts here, but I heard from him in a while) has written a guide at www.doom9.org.

    I don't have it in front of me, but the guide that would be best suited would be splitting a DVD-9 to 2 DVD-5 where you insert the new bit of `insert disk 2' video at the appropriate point.

    But in your case it, you wouldn't split the DVD at the appropriate point, and instead of `insert disc 2' you would add the second disc and repeat the process for the 3rd, 4th xth disc.

    I think this would require you to rip both discs (or as many as you want to join) to the hard-drive first, and then use shrink again in re-author mode to join the movies together. Once joined, the first rip of the disc can be deleted.

    I have no idea how you would get the menus to function correctly in the case of joining LOTR.

    I will play around tonight with it, and post back tomorrow.
     
  5. CodeThief

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    Excellent, thanks :)

    I personally don't care about the menus, just don't want our 11 hour LOTR-a-thon interrupted by disc swaps :D

    Dave
     
  6. GrahamMG

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    Although I haven't tried, I'd assume that loading all the .vob's into a single Video_ts file (making sure that you number the vob's correctly i.e. first film starts at 01 - xx and film 2 starts at xx+1 -xxx etc.....) and then load IFOEdit it would create a new IFO file for the entire VOB list allowing you to jump chapters etc. Making a menu that would drive all three films as one seamless block is not at all easy without serious hardware.....So I'd quit at the point where they all played as one lump! Personally I can't afford the lager that would be drunk during such a session!!!
     
  7. probedb

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    Hmm, thinking about DVD-Shrink, you can have 2 DVDs open at once, then I guess if you go into reauthor, then drag the relevant titles from each disc it'll reauthor to one ??
     
  8. esta56

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    :rolleyes:

    Er, yea right, er, that's what I would, erm, do :eek: Does anyone know what language this is written in?

    I'm also not interested in any menus. All the films I've ripped to date are just the film which I then watch through Theatertek. One of the features I like is that there is no stutter because of a layer change.

    Remember, my objectives are twofold (in order of priority or more likely what's doable):

    1) Put together, seemlessly, a film that is spread across two discs

    &

    2) Join, seemlessly (and without menus) LOTR EE, missing out the end credits on Fellowship and Two Towers and missing the opening credits/logos from Two Towers and Return of the King..... that's all :smashin:

    I know DVDShrink has a faciity to rip a film from a disc and set your own start and finish points but somehow I don't see that this function (if it could be applied to LOTR) being very subtle. So is there software available that lets you put together two or more films by viewing them on screen and fading from one to the other at a point you set? I use J. River Media Center for playing my ripped CDs. If anyone has used this software and moved the slider along as a song plays then you know that, instead of jumping to the new point like most players, it fades out and then fades in with a subtle overlap. This is the kind of thing I would want to be able to set when joining films. :thumbsup:
     
  9. Messiah

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  10. Harry T

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    While I didn't play around with the fading bit, I did join the two disks of discs of FOTR last night using DVDShrink. It did play seemlessly over the join point, however I did have a problem with the chapter resetting to 1. No problem if just watching the movie from start to finish, but if you wanted to go back to the previous chapter (ie the last or earlier on the original first disc) you get stuck at the 1st chapter of disc 2.

    Found a guide here:-
    www.dvdshrink.info/compilation.php

    I hope this helps.
     
  11. Harry T

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  12. Epithet

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    Hi esta56

    I am not sure about DVDSHRINK, I personally don't like it. I prefer IFOedit because I can see what is happening. I have sucessfully used GrahamMG's method to merge 2-disk films onto hard disk without annoying menues etc. I believe it would be a straightforward task to merge all 3 extended versions of LOTR into one movie using the same method (disk space permiiting). If DVDshrink doesn't work for you come back for a more detailed explanation of the GrahamMG method.

    Good luck

    TonyM
     
  13. esta56

    esta56
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    Thanks Harry T for the links to the DVDShrink guides which expanded my knowledge a bit more.

    So it seems that you got a seemless join between the two discs of FOTR but at the point of join the chapters started back at 1 again and therefore the complete film rip retains each disc's individual chapter structure. I think I read this elsewhere. Is there any way to fix this problem (which I understand is not an issue if you're just going to watch the film)? See my query on this near the bottom.

    Does anyone have a link/s to good guides/instructions on this subject? I've been searching all over the place, this was informative and understandable...

    http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32814&highlight=joining+vobs

    I think I'm starting to understand 'bits and pieces' but it is like only having a few pieces of a jigsaw!

    It seems to me that a DVD file structure is made up of two directories of which only the one called VIDEO_TS is generally used (apparently TS stands for 'Title Set'), the other, AUDIO_TS is usually empty but still created because, if transferred to disc, some older DVD players expect it to be there? Within the VIDEO_TS subdirectory are some 'Master' files:

    VIDEO_TS.VOB, VIDEO_TS.IFO and VIDEO_TS.BUP Not exactly sure what these do though I know that BUP files are copies of the IFO files and that they are physically stored in a different area of the disc so that the disc can still play if the IFO file is scratched)? Are these first files to do with menus.

    After these files come the'VTS' files (apparrantely VTS stands for 'Video Title Set'). Do I understand correctly that there can be many VTS for the different presentations on a DVD, obviously one is for the main film but also others for extras, documentaries, making of etc.

    If I'm right then there could be a VTS_01 for a film, VTS_02 for an extra and a VTS_03 for another extra and so on? Does the main film have to be the VTS_01 or does it not matter?

    I've read that there is a file size limit of 1Gb for the VOB files in a VTS, if the size limit is going to exceed this, then another VOB is created and so on and so on (the main film being the most obvious VTS that this would happen on).

    So, as best as I can tell, the VTS for the film could look like:

    VTS_01_0.BUP (the IFO backp file)
    VTS_01_0.IFO (the navigation file)
    VTS_01_1.VOB (the first presentation file with the video, audio and subtitles)
    VTS_01_2.VOB (if the first VOB file exceeds 1Gb then there'll be a second)
    VTS_01_3.VOB (if the second VOB file exceeds 1Gb then there'll be a third)
    and so on

    The maximum number of VOB files that can exist on a VTS is 9 therefore:

    VTS_01_9.VOB

    If there was an extra on the DVD then this could be under a different VTS as mentioned above VTS_02 so:

    VTS_02_0.BUP
    VTS_02_0.IFO
    VTS_02_1.VOB (if this extra was 1Gb or under then only one VOB)

    Another extra

    VTS_03_0.BUP
    VTS_03_0.IFO
    VTS_03_1.VOB
    VTS_03_2.VOB (the VOB for this VTS exceeds 1Gb but is less than 2Gb)

    I know this is very basic but can anyone confirm my understanding so far is correct or not, (in which case correct me). I'm sure that there are others who would like to know as well.

    I'm also very sure that there is a hell of a lot more to this subject but some questions come to mind already:

    If the maximum VOB file limit is 9 (thus 9Gb size limit normally on a DVD9 I presume), how could I join together a two disc (or even the three LOTR films) DVD that say for example had a total of 14 VOB files (9 on the first Disc and 5 on the second) WITHOUT compression? Could seemless branching help, if so how does it work? When DVDShrink is used to Re-Author and create a compilation, is the problem referred earlier with the chapters caused because it is creating the compilation by linking together two separate VTS each with their own IFO file (chapter structure? e.g.

    VTS_01_0.BUP
    VTS_01_0.IFO
    VTS_01_1.VOB
    VTS_02_0.BUP
    VTS_02_0.IFO
    VTS_02_1.VOB


    Well that's enough to be going on with. :eek:
     
  14. Harry T

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    Esta56, A lot of information there.

    Re, my join of FOTR. To fix my chapter issue, I think you would need to use Ifoedit or Vobedit to make the changes within the file. I haven't used these programs - so I am only guessing.

    My use of Shrink to join VOB's has been limited to backing up DVD9 onto 2 DVD5 and adding a `insert disc 2' VOB and adding `seconds of blank info' ant the start of disc2. Also in joining several eposide of TV shows onto a single DVD5. Shrink has been perfect for this, but what you are trying to achieve is way beyond my knowledge base. There is much more information on the subject at the forums at
    www.videohelp.com/forum/ and www.doom9.org. As well as the author of DVDShrink being a mod there (as well as the forum you listed).

    Your understanding of file structures is pretty much similar to mine (but I am no expert on this). I think there are some variations to the VOB structure when seemless branching is involved, and, I cannot find anything at the moment, I thought the next file after VTS_01_9.VOB in a movie could be VTS_02_1.VOB and would still allow continuous play. But generally VTS_01_x.VOB and VTS_02_x.VOB are 2 different streams. But thinking about it logically, the file structure was created for a DVD9, 9G max in size, therefore, 9 VTS_01_x.VOB each at 1G, the last file in a stream could possibly be VTS_01_9.VOB. And ripping to the hard-disk wasn't a consideration.

    Hopefully, someone with a lot more knowledge will come along and help now.

    Anyway, better get back to cleaning up my office.
    (Finishing a contract today, then a weeks holiday, and starting a new contract on the 20th. I will check back then and see how you are getting along).
     
  15. esta56

    esta56
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    I can see that if the number of VOBs for a single VTS doesn't exceed 9, after joining a two disc film together then it should work (assuming I know what I'm doing). But I'm not at all clear on what you do if you effectively had say, 24 VOBs (because you want to create a single LOTR film) without applying any compression and have chapter skip work properly. I understand, I think, that there musn't be any difference in the audio streams. I would be looking to keep it as simple as possible, no menus, no subtitles, just the film and its DTS soundtrack.

    As a start point, I may download this IFOedit software and have a go at just creating a single FOTR this weekend, so any guidance you can give would be gratefully received. :smashin:
     
  16. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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  17. esta56

    esta56
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    High Graham

    The fact I didn't understand your original post gave me the kick to try understand the subject a bit more. After a bit of research I created the post above to try confirm that my understanding was correct.....so far!

    I kind of appreciated that a VOB can be any size as long as it doesn't exceed 1Gb but I can't see how you can exceed nine VOBs under one VTS. So if I had 20Gb of VOB that I wanted to put together seemlessly and have chapter skip work (and no compression), how do you do it?

    Also, if you don't like where a chapter changes to the next and so wanted to move it, is that possible?

    I'll take a look at the sites you mentioned and most probably download IFOedit. I'm hoping to try creating a single, seemless rip of just one of the LOTR films - FOTR tonight. It could all end in tears. :rolleyes:
     
  18. markshanks

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    I actually created a continuous movie of each of the LOTR last month on the HD and it was dead easy. All you need to do is choose the reauthor function of dvdshrink, and copy the main movie part of the first disc, and then the main movie part of the second disc into the reauthor pane. Dvdshrink then creates a single movie and instantaneously flicks from the first disc to the second when it gets to that point. It looks exactly the same as any other transition in the film. You obviously should choose no compression for each of the movies so that no detail is lost. In terms of accessing chapters, at least in powerdvd the movies appear as "title1" and "title2", and each of these opens a submenu with the relevant chapters - so you can easily access the chapters from each of the discs no matter where you are in the movie at the time.

    While I haven't done it, I presume that creating a single LOTR film would also be easy. Just copy all of the main movies into the reauthor pane of dvdshrink, and dvdshrink then let's you set the start and finish of each movie. Just set it to start and finish so that the titles and credits are cut out.
     
  19. Epithet

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    Having looked at how I did it I am now ready to concede that DVDshrink is the easiest way to combine 2-disk movies. Follow martshanks' method. As he says, PowerDVD recognises all the chapters titles etc.

    TonyM
     
  20. esta56

    esta56
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    I've just tried to create a single film from the two discs of FOTR using the info from

    http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32814&highlight=joining+vobs

    I adapted the instructions slightly and ended up with eleven VTS

    VTS_01_1.VOB
    to
    VTS_01_11.VOB

    Even though this exceeds the nine VTS that a DVD player would accept, IfoEdit seemed happy and created a complete film with 47 chapters! I can skip backwards and forwards, no problem however,......

    .....In Theatertek the film just freezes at a point after Chapter 45 and I can't skip to Chapter 46 or 47, in fact Theatertek crashes. I tried the film in WinDVD and had a similar problem though it occurred around Chapter 42 instead and just stopped without crashing. Does anyone have a clue what has gone wrong? I was pretty excited when I saw that IfoEdit accepted (and worked with) my VTS numbering scheme and immediately imagined that to join all three LOTR films into one would work (most probably ending up with the last VTS somewhere around VTS_01_34.VOB)!! But this is no good if the software players can't or won't handle this. Imagine though, a single film with perhaps 150 Chapters, now that would be something you don't see everyday! :rolleyes: A thought just occurred to me, if it is the Chapter numbers that are causing the problem, is it possible to edit this and therefore reduce the number of Chapters down to under 45? Of course if the freezing/stopping/crashing problem is caused by something else (like my inventive VTS numbering) then this wouldn't help.

    If I use the DVDShrink method of joining, as a few of you have mentioned, I understand that you cannot Chapter skip between the Title 1 and Title 2 but does the film play seemlessly at the join point? I appreciate, Epithet, that the Chapter skip work around is via the Title option and assume this would also work in Theatertek.

    As I learn more, I create new problems and have new questions! Fun, isn't it? :smashin:
     
  21. markshanks

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    Like I said in my earlier post, there is no problem with skipping between chapters between the 2 titles using dvdshrink, at least with powerdvd. Choosing "next" correctly goes over the transition, while you can use the menu to directly choose any chapter from each of the titles.
     
  22. esta56

    esta56
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    Well, I've done it. I've managed to rip both the FOTR and TT (so that's four discs) and using DVDShrink, put them all together to make one film. It has taken me most of the weekend to achieve as I've been experimenting with different ways to make a single seemless film. These are what I tried:

    1) I followed (adapted) the instructions in the link I gave above. As I detailed, though IfoEdit accepted my numbering scheme, the software players wouldn't work with it. I only did this method to the FOTR on the basis that, if it didn'y work on this, there's no point carrying on with the TT

    2) My next attempt was using DVDShrinkto rip each disc of FOTR but with the checkbox for 'Split VOB files into 1Gb size chunks' in Preference (Output Files tab) disabled. My thinking here was that if I could get Theatertek to play a single VOB file that was 4Gb or 5Gb then I would rip all four discs on this basis creating 4 large VOB files. I would then use the methd in 1) to join them and therefore hopefully avoid any issue that Theatertek may have with more than 9 VOB files (if that was the problem). Though DVDShrink ripped the first disc OK I couldn't get it to play in Theatertek, so abandoned that idea.

    3) So finally I went with the method several of you have been recommending. I ripped each disc (making sure that 'Split VOB files into 1Gb size chunks' was renabled) using ReAuthor to pick just the film and the DTS soundtrack and set it to No Compression (of course). I set Start and End points for each film as follows:

    FOTR Disc 1
    Start - not changed
    Finish - 01h 41m 17s 16frames

    FOTR Disc 2
    Start - not changed
    Finish - 01h 31m 6s 23frames

    TT
    Start - 00h 00m 40s 5frames (this is after the opening logos and the title 'Lord of the Rings')
    Finish - 01h 42m 10s 19frames

    TT
    Start - not changed
    Finish - 01h 43m 50s 2frames

    Note that I found that the best point to finish on the first disc of each film was on the very last frame still showing a picture. I ripped initially with the finish point on the disc 1s just as they had gone into a black screen but this looked wrong when they were joined. Picking the points above meant that the change to the second disc is almost not noticeable in both FOTR and TT. The join I picked between the end of disc 2 of FOTR and the start of the TT disc is the best I found with a couple of seconds of black and no credits. Obviously the music doesn't match but I was surprised at how good the changeover was, considering.

    So the end result is the first two films (all four discs) playing as one. DVDShrink has set each disc as a separate Title in the combined 'film'. The interesting thing is that in Theatertek the 'film' plays all the way through, no problem (note I've got Multidrive disabled) but Chapter Skip and Fast Forward/Backward only works within each Title and in fact Theatertek shows Chapters in each Title starting back at Chapter 1 and the time bar (when pausing) only shows the time of the Title you're in. This would make sense but when I've played the 'film' in WinDVD it also plays through OK and you can only Fast Forward/Backward in each Title but Chapter Skip works across the Titles. So at Chapter 27 at the end of Title 1 it goes over to Chapter 1 in Title 2 but I can Chapter Skip back into Title 1 (and this the same throughout the 'film'). So does anyone know why?

    I would still like to know if I could create a single 'film' under one Titl, with Theatertek allowing it to work (no freezing or crashing) and allowing Chapter Skip and Fast Forward/Backward. I may join the Theatertek Forum and pose this question.

    In the meantime it is a great feeling to have a continuous LOTR EE 'film'. So when ROTK EE is released all I should have to do is rip it to the HD and then use DVDShrink to Reauthor the existing combined FOTR/TT together with ROTK (again setting the Start and Finish points).

    Any answers/comments gratefully received.
     
  23. GrahamMG

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    Well done, I think we have all learned something from this.

    I am also curious if there is a way to link the chapters from the films so they have sequencial numbers. I am also puzzled why TheatreTek crashes so far into the compilation as I would have thought that if it got that far it would play to the end, don't suppose tit is at around the 9.4Gb mark?
     
  24. esta56

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    Yep, it is puzzling what was causing Theatertek to freeze/crash or not play (in the case of the larger than 1Gb VOB files). It maybe that Theatertek strictly conforms to DVD Video standards and won't entertain any deviation from this. But also, why does WinDVD allow Chapter Skip to work across Titles and Theatertek won't?

    I've put a post on the Theatertek Forum but not had a reply yet.
     
  25. esta56

    esta56
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    Bit of an update

    I forgot to mention in my detail of how I'd ripped the films (above) that I had to do it all again as I hadn't included subtitles when I ripped each film. All films I've ripped to date have not included subtitles, I have no need for them. But of course, there are various parts of LOTR where the characters are speaking Elvish (which unfortunately I'm not fluent in) so subtitles are needed. So don't forget them......like I did :mad:

    When I assembled all four rips in DVDShrink's Reauthor mode, the first Title (first disc of FOTR) didn't have the subtitle checkbox available, even though I'd now re-ripped it with subtitles (above). Again I went through the whole process without realising what had happened, only noticing it when I played Chapter 26 in the first Title....aaaarrrggghhhh!!!

    So, did it again! The problem was that I had the checkbox, in Preferences (the Preferences Tab) for 'Hide Audio and subpicture streams of insignificant size' enabled . Unchecked it and the subtitle checkbox for the first film reappeared showing a size of 0Mb (less tha 1Mb in otherwords). DVDShrink re did the process and this time created the complete FOTR/TT making four Title Sets but with subtitles for Elvish. Yes!!

    On another note, I've had replies to my post on Theatertek from Theatertek's Andrew.

    http://www.theatertek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5789

    Though he won't go into detail, it seems that Theatertek won't play a VOB greater than 1Gb but he felt that there was no limit to the number of 1Gb VOBs in a Title Set (he gave the example of 20). I have since been looking in Doom9 and can see various posts where people have joined a two disc film (processed through VobEdit and IfoEdit) but it wouldn't play the VOBs relating to the second disc. I have joined the Doom9 Forum today but they won't allow you to post for 5 days...aaarghhh. They want you to search all their existing posts/guides to see if you get the answer rather than asking a question that has been asked 100 times previously. The problem with Doom9 is that it is like reading a foreign language, I really don't understand a lot of it, very, very technical. Nevertheless, despite searching and reading posts for 3 hours I couldn't find anything that covers exactly what I'm trying to do, so in 5 days time I'll put a post up. I'll put the results (if any) here.
     
  26. Scott Smart

    Scott Smart
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    Is anyone still interested in doing this properly. I wemt through days of pain but achieved it in the end with continuous chapter numbering (ie one title not two), proper searching etc. I did the EE of the first two films and DasBoot. When the chapter numbering is correct it all ties up with the sleeve notes. I will have to take a look at some notes that I made.

    By the way you can play VOB's bigger than 1 GB but 5 GB is too big for a single file in windows. If you are going to burn the discs then most settop players pnly allow 1Gb. I used mainly IFOedit. You can also get it to work using Vobedit but just Ifoedit is enough. I also found a couple of methods that actually worked having tried about 10 variations of method!

    Scott Smart
     
  27. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    I'm still very interested. :smashin: .. I got lost with IfoEdit and ended up being content with piggy-backing them so they play even though chapters are lost after part 1.

    BTW, do you know why there's a 5G limit? 4G is a filesize limit on FAT32 but 5G seems an odd max' size. :rolleyes:
     
  28. esta56

    esta56
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    Just noticed the two posts in November.

    If it is of any help, I posted a series of guides on the subject (collated from various sources).

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142130

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142298

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142489

    There seem to be a widespread lack of interest so I never produced the fourth one (promised at the end of part III).

    Anyway, these guides may be of help. I would be interested in the technique for making continuous Chapters. I am building up steam to join all three LOTR films (Extended version of course) into one superfilm. I would love to see continuous chapters (1 to 230!!).
     
  29. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    While not wanting to join LOTR into one big movie, joining the 3 separates is my real hope.
     
  30. Scott Smart

    Scott Smart
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    Oops, sorry, forgot.

    Will try joinging ROTK to make sure I can still do it successfully!!

    Will try to post inside the next week.

    -Scott Smart
     

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