Rip off

xd349pt

Novice Member
Just purchased Kef R range surround, been looking for used bi cable on eBay.
Is there a cheaper alternative to Chord, QED etc which are very expensive. Seems 4core in one cable or 4 core flat cable.
Seen Lots of sales talk on how many copper wire strands but, can’t see how that matters as long as it copes with 165w output.
Does it really matter. Any suggestions from diy experts to get good performance for reasonable realistic price. Cheers
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Why bi-wire? Very little, if any improvement in audio, especially if using a receiver. Bi-amping from two separate amps is another matter. The KEFs are more than good enough single wired. Your comment about it coping with 165w output shows somewhat that you don't have an understanding of audio delivery. That figure has absolutely nothing to do with the cable capacity as not matter what wattage is stated it's actually only a very small electrical impulse that drives the speakers.

It is also extremely unlikely that your receiver is capable of passing 165 watts to each speaker. More likely than not that's the quoted power performance for a single speaker at a loading of 6 ohm.

However here is a link to bi-wire/amp cable.
 

xd349pt

Novice Member
Thankyou for your reply, yes I have no understanding of audio delivery but I do understand costs and that was the point.
Yes they are 2 wires or bi wires connections. The argument as to which is best, no idea as with the crossover, I agree with you can’t see the point of 4 wires going into 2 but as said sure diy will tell me.
Great input many thanks Andy
Ps yep I’m on the link thanks
 

gibbsy

Moderator
What receiver do you have?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
As I suspected the receiver has figures of 160 watts into 6,ohms with 1 channel driven. That will equate to 110 watts or thereabouts with the 8 ohms of the KEFs. With all channels being driven that could certainly go as low as 45 watts per channel. There is no point in bi-wiring the KEFs as the receiver is just about capable of driving them all around.

I have R300s and the R Series as a whole do like power and I would not have recommended the R Series with this particular receiver, it's simply not powerful enough to do them justice. The Onkyo doesn't have any pre-outs and you cannot add any external power to help drive them.

Can you tell me exactly what R Series speakers you have.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Chap did say need Devon 7200WA
Absolutely. I driving R300s, R100s and R50s with the R200C. Power is supplied from a Denon X6200 with a Rega stereo amp driving the R300s. You're driving almost £4000's worth of speakers (new prices) with a sub £500 receiver.

The R Series are a high quality speakers and the 700s especially need to have good headroom that the Onkyo cannot possibly hope to fill. A 7200 would certainly do a far far better job. Was the Onkyo your decision or were you guided, badly, toward it.
 

xd349pt

Novice Member
The story
My Sony surround inc blue ray had elec surge.
That sys only cost me £200 used.
So I decided in my no idea wisdom to look for amp and the Onkyo came up, had good read up and within my budget so purchased. Spoke to seller about which speakers to buy he said Kef R range as going cheap used.
So off I go and got into a £2.7k spending spree, then spoke to R600c chap said Onkyo won’t cope need Devon, look at Devon, lots of £. Asked what cable to use Chord look at that as used lots of £.
So what you got is someone living in shoebox surrounded by nabs with a potential to piss them off. My budget was 300 for all.
That’s were I’m sitting, given wrong advise by amp man but correct by R600c man.
It’s what it is. The Devon is 1k used,
You go into sales room he say you need this, it’s a cheap then in order for that to work correctly you need these expensive unnecessary kit but, your in now get the rest to ensure your not an idiot but you are out of ya depth. Does that make sense ?
Andy
 

kungfuman

Active Member
Van Damme cables has a good rep for high quality and reasonably priced cables. If you’re set on bi wire then the black studio version comes in 4 core 2.5mm.

Personally I use a mix of hifi version (up-lfcoc) for my fronts and the blue series for surrounds. I can recommend mark grant cables as a supplier.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
It sounds very much that you have been given completely the wrong advice by people who were just interested in taking your money. The closest to honesty was that the Onkyo is too poor for the KEFs. Your remark about a shoebox makes me think that the R700s, as excellent as they are, may very well be the wrong speakers for your room. Something that I'm pretty sure would not have happened had you been given some honest insightful advice.

Can you post a picture or diagram of your room with dimensions so that further good advice may be given.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Speaker cable - as others have said stick with a 2-core cable and forget about Bi-wire. The VanDamme Blue Series 2x2.5mm is a good option for speaker cable.

Room/Room Layout - is the biggest factor in your choice of loudspeakers, it would be good to understand what you are working with.

Mix and Match - your budget AVR is not a great option for the loudspeaker system you have so any future upgrades ought to be focused on the AVR (subject to understanding your room).

Sub - you don't mention if you have one.

Joe
 

xd349pt

Novice Member
Absolutely. I driving R300s, R100s and R50s with the R200C. Power is supplied from a Denon X6200 with a Rega stereo amp driving the R300s. You're driving almost £4000's worth of speakers (new prices) with a sub £500 receiver.

The R Series are a high quality speakers and the 700s especially need to have good headroom that the Onkyo cannot possibly hope to fill. A 7200 would certainly do a far far better job. Was the Onkyo your decision or were you guided, badly, toward it
I will purchase used 7200 but which one ?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
It's covered by a 12 month Denon warranty so you have that as a good back up for a refurb. I think that's a good price. It will certainly do a far better job than your Onkyo. Denon and KEF are good partners.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
You're right there. Piece of advice though. Post questions on here before your next purchase. Members just might save you a lot of money.:smashin:
 

gibbsy

Moderator
It's a very popular receiver being Denon's top tier model until the 8500 was launched. Got a lot of time on your hand? Here's the 7200 owner thread.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Are you looking for another on sale? Sorry I thought you were just looking for information on the 7200. They don't come up for sale very often and I think flea bay is your best bet. You could look through our classifieds although I've not seen one for sale for a long time.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Here's something for you to consider. A new Denon X4500. It will power the KEFs, not as much headroom as the 7200 but you will have the opportunity to add external power to it if you think it's needed. Peter Tyson has them for sale at just under £1200 but with the possibility of trading in the Onkyo to offset the cost. Three year warranty for piece of mind. It's a good receiver but is two tiers below the 7200.
 

xd349pt

Novice Member
Here's something for you to consider. A new Denon X4500. It will power the KEFs, not as much headroom as the 7200 but you will have the opportunity to add external power to it if you think it's needed. Peter Tyson has them for sale at just under £1200 but with the possibility of trading in the Onkyo to offset the cost. Three year warranty for piece of mind. It's a good receiver but is two tiers below the 7200.
Your knowledge on these matters has been most help and clear.
Iv been extremely naive and got myself into a buy this but you need this as well.
But, not many peps will have the sys I have. I’m learning fast?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Oh you've got some bloody good speakers that will form the basis of your system for years to come. Good speakers will always remain good speakers. Amps and receivers don't tend to last that long.
 

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